How much SS is desirable? (image quality samples)

[chiliwili69]

The SuperSampling (SS) default value in SteamVR is 1.0, but many of us increase that to obtain better image clarity. I have conducted a series of tests to really compare the image clarity gain for different values of SS. (1.0, 1.7, 2.3, 2.9, 4.0). I used the same settings that the IL2 VR performace test of the other thread, so I used ingame AAx2.

If you use OculusTrayTool (OTT) to touch SS, remember that the SteamVR SS values differ from the used in OTT by the relation (SS_OTT)^2=SS_SteamVR. So the corresponding aprox. values in OTT will be (1.0, 1.3, 1.5, 1.7, 2.0). This is explained in https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30436-pixel-density-supersampling-steamvr-oculustraytool-and-oculu/

 

Firstly, I have used OculusMirror with the option to display the window in size 1080 hor. x 1200 ver. only for the right eye. That is exactly the physical resolution of one eye Rift or Vive. So, Oculus Mirror is displaying exactly what it is shown in the display before applying the lens distortion.

I had to re-launch IL-2 every time I was changing the SS in the slide bar of SteamVR settings as shown here

 

Since my monitor is 4K, I was making a cropped screen captures for every SS test and save them in png files to not loss resolution.

Then took some gauges of them to compose these two images (zoom them when you visualize them):

 

So, what is the right SS????

Short answer is depending on your GPU. The more the better.

From 1.0 to 1.7 there is a huge difference. Then 2.3 is better. Then 2.9 is better. And 4.0 makes the best.

I didn´t try higher values since 4.0 it is already too much load to the GPU (It is more than 2x4K).

With my modest 1070 I can not go higher than 2.0 for High settings, but I didn´t try to go to Balanced or Low and use higher values.

For all the ones who enjoy a 1080Ti, you can go beyond 2.0 and perhaps reach 3.0 or 4.0 without impacting too much the performance and reducing the settings

 

The original captures png images are these:

 

Three remaining images in the next post

Edited August 27, 2017 by chiliwili69

[chiliwili69]

these are the three images for SS 2.3, 2.9, 4.0.

To really see the effect you can put the 5 images in a folder and visualize one after the other.

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by chiliwili69

[A_radek]

Holy baloney Pepe! That instrument ss line up image is absolutely priceless as a comparison tool.

Edited August 27, 2017 by a_radek

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

Give this man a award. =)

 

You've shortened my tweak times by a long time.

 

Thank you very much.

[TG-55Panthercules]

Certainly confirmed what I had suspected - the answer to the question "How much SS is desirable?" is "as high as you can set it without tanking performance".

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

While I attempt playing at Ultra with SS at 2.3 (and I do end up in reprojection when the scene gets busy), I feel that due to the SDE in the VR systems the point of diminishing returns is much earlier than the screenshots illustrated.

 

That said, testing SS was what pushed me to upgrade 1 month after BOS released VR support. My thinking was if we are going to be in Gen1 VR for a year or 2, in my mind it made enough improvement to matter.

Also, many thanks for you guys running these comparisons. It has saved me a lot of time finding the settings which make the most difference.

Edited August 28, 2017 by =TBAS=Tripwire

[chiliwili69]

Thanks for you comments, they are welcome.

The SS was always like a kind of subjective matter and when trying in BOS VR it is something difficult to compare, since you need to set SS, try it, exit game, change SS, and try it again. And with my fish memory it is difficult to judge.

I suppose that this SS improvement will also be applied to people playing at monitor. For example people playing at 1080p can do SS to render at 2K using GPU panel settings, or people playing at 2K can render at 4K.

 

I also have heard somewhere that increasing the SS a lot will have a negative effect for spotting or for ID. I still don´t understand why.

When I have more time I would like to experiment how SS affects spotting and ID.

 

This SS parameter will live always in IL-2, no matter our future VR devices will have 4K, we will always benefit from SS. We will always want the fat GPU. Long life for GPU manufacturers! Our pockets will be poor but our hearts will have fun!

 

 

I feel that due to the SDE in the VR systems the point of diminishing returns is much earlier than the screenshots illustrated.

 

I don´t understand this. Do you mean that there is a limit where more SS doesn´t improve because SDE?

 

 

That said, testing SS was what pushed me to upgrade 1 month after BOS released VR support. My thinking was if we are going to be in Gen1 VR for a year or 2, in my mind it made enough improvement to matter

 

Yes. With right CPU/RAM, a modest GPU (for example 1060) is enough to play IL-2 VR. But if you want SS (everybody like image clarity) then tops GPUs have a reason to go.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

I don´t understand this. Do you mean that there is a limit where more SS doesn´t improve because SDE?

 

 

 

Yes. With right CPU/RAM, a modest GPU (for example 1060) is enough to play IL-2 VR. But if you want SS (everybody like image clarity) then tops GPUs have a reason to go.

 

Yes as in the SDE I feel will limit the visual improvements to some extent. Testing SS of 4 and 5 there is still an improvement, but not as significant as the change from 1 to 2+.

The cost in rendering power does not equal the realised image quality gains.

 

When I run at SS of 4.0 or even 5.0 in a quick mission, I still get 90fps if I am the only plane flying - but there is some visual issues right on the outside edge of both lens which is slight but distracting. Wonder if others notice it too. Its only about a few mm of view. Possibly only a Vive thing. Don't see the issue at my current 2.3, nor at any setting less.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On what map?

 

I was on the part of Moscow map today and was constantly at 44fps, even though I scored very good in the comparisons.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

On what map?

 

I was on the part of Moscow map today and was constantly at 44fps, even though I scored very good in the comparisons.

 

Quick mission, Stalingrad Autumn, central single spawn, 109G4 @ 300m

[von_Tom_server]

 

Do you need in game AA if SS is at 1.3? Is there any visual difference at all? I "think" it looks worse with AA disabled but I cannot tell if I'm correct. I use 4xAA and losing AA completely would be a help for frame rates.

 

von Tom

[Nibbio]

I use in game 2XAA and SS1.0 and find it very good. Not going to waste FPS on minimal graphics improvements. As always, YMMV

[von_Tom]

Just tested and I did see a very noticeable drop in image quality with no AA enabled but with no increase in frame rates.  Then I tested between SS1.0 and 1.3 and although i didn't really notice a change in image quality nothing made the FPS worse than it was with 4xx and 1.3 in place.

 

Mind you I was testing over the Kuban maps in a Spit with a mirror and that means 40s with dips to 20.

 

von Tom 

Edited August 30, 2017 by von_Tom

[Nibbio]

Just tested and I did see a very noticeable drop in image quality with no AA enabled but with no increase in frame rates.  Then I tested between SS1.0 and 1.3 and although i didn't really notice a change in image quality nothing made the FPS worse than it was with 4xx and 1.3 in place.

 

Mind you I was testing over the Kuban maps in a Spit with a mirror and that means 40s with dips to 20.

 

von Tom 

 

Settings that allow "40s with dips to 20" while flying a quick mission alone would make the sim unplayable for me in multi or a campaign mission.

 

I need to have 90 fps most of the time, with occasional drops in the 50/40s, even on crowded servers or campaign missions (of course with HUD off). In my experience SS just gobbles FPS, and I'm willing to drop all the eye candy for smooth gameplay.

 

Therefore mirrors are definitely out, preset is low or balanced at most, terrain normal, and shadows currenlty medium (although apparently on medium there are no aircraft shadows on the ground, which could be important for spotting, so I may experiment with higher settings)

[von_Tom]

40 with dips to 20 is too low for me too.

 

45 and above is about ok for me and currently in most multiplayer it is above that.  How it fares when we get to Kuban will be interesting and I may have to lose some eye candy for that.

 

What I do know is that before the 2.011 update it was at 80-90 most of the time but then it dropped by 20-30fps for no apparent reason.

 

von Tom

[dburne]

Do you need in game AA if SS is at 1.3? Is there any visual difference at all? I "think" it looks worse with AA disabled but I cannot tell if I'm correct. I use 4xAA and losing AA completely would be a help for frame rates.

 

von Tom

 

It definitely looks worse for me with no AA, so I use 2x AA along with SS set in Oculus Tray Tool.

[Nibbio]

40 with dips to 20 is too low for me too.

 

45 and above is about ok for me and currently in most multiplayer it is above that.  How it fares when we get to Kuban will be interesting and I may have to lose some eye candy for that.

 

What I do know is that before the 2.011 update it was at 80-90 most of the time but then it dropped by 20-30fps for no apparent reason.

 

von Tom

 

That's strange, didn't experience that.

However, the day before the update, I swapped my old I7-3820 for an equally ancient I7-3930k, equally OC'ed at 4.3 GHz. Since the single core performance of the 2 CPUs is about the same I wouldn't have expected any significant advantages, certainly not enough to compensate a 20-30 fps drop...

[chiliwili69]

Just as a general note to make all your comments more valuable to readers:

 

- When you mention you use SS, please explain if you use OTT/ODT (as Don does) or SteamVR. They are not the same. SS_SteamVR is (SS_OTT)^2

- Please, put your full system specs in signature, including RAM speed.

- Try to run the IL-2 VR benchmark in the other thread so you can discover if there is something not expected with your hardware/software.

 

The SS max value is not limited by your CPU, but by your GPU.

Edited August 30, 2017 by chiliwili69

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I agree with chiliwili69.

 

By the way: You might want to note that ingame AA makes planes merge and dissipate into the background - be it ground or clouds - and even having it just on 2x makes it incredibly hard to spot targets beneath you, especially when they are close to the ground.

 

In VR you should disable ingame AA entirely, disable "sharpen" since it's meant to counter AA-blur on objects, and instead pull up the VR AA slider which is your good old Super Sampling (SS). In Steam, make sure to uncheck "Advanced SuperSampling Filtering" right beneath the SteamVR SS-setting bar.

Edited August 30, 2017 by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

[Cybermat47]

Absolutely none, it's a dead cause, and it should stay de - wait, SuperSampling... not Schutz Staffel? Oh, I get it now... never mind.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I have found it to be more important that you can maintain 90fps at all times. If you don't reach 90fps, and IL-2 is bugged regarding ASW, you will have a stuttery picture. You can see what I mean: Get into a situation with 60fps or ramp up your graphics settings so you hit 60-70 fps. Now fly a plane and roll. Take a look at the ground. Now enable ASW or go for 90fps. Roll your plane again. See how fluid it is ?

 

The same applies to aircraft. Your gunnery will be much better at 90fps / ASW enabled. Identification will be easier, because you grasp the shape of the objects earlier. Even if ASW tends to induce headache and seizures for the unlucky, because they still haven't fixed the damn propeller disk showing!

Edited August 30, 2017 by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

[TG-55Panthercules]

Hmm - another thing to test (beginning to wonder if I'm ever going to actually get to just fly at some point).  Until we eventually perhaps get the ability to turn off the prop animation that seems to cause problems with ASW, I'll have to do some tests with ASW on when I'm flying some of the twin engine planes I tend to favor anyway - without a prop staring you in the face maybe having ASW on wouldn't be so bad?

 

Question - out of the various CTRL+Numpad options for ASW, which mode makes the most sense to use if you want to have it on for testing? (I've always just turned it off with CTRL+1 so I haven't really learned what the other options do)

Edited August 31, 2017 by TG-55Panthercules

[chiliwili69]

 

 

Question - out of the various CTRL+Numpad options for ASW, which mode makes the most sense to use if you want to have it on for testing? (I've always just turned it off with CTRL+1 so I haven't really learned what the other options do)

 

The other two options are Oculus Tray Tool (third party tool) or Oculus Debug Tool (Oculus made tool). But, for testing purposes it is better CTRL+NumpadX since you don´t need to exit the game, change the setting and launch again the game.

 

I use the keyboard, since I only use it once at the beginning (in the hangar with the IL-2 menu) before wearing the Rift.

Fenris was explaining how to assign a macro with the HOTAS: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30804-disable-asw-hotas/

[dburne]

 

Question - out of the various CTRL+Numpad options for ASW, which mode makes the most sense to use if you want to have it on for testing? (I've always just turned it off with CTRL+1 so I haven't really learned what the other options do)

 

 

From the Oculus site:

• Control-Numpad1: Disables ASW and returns to the standard rendering mode.
• Control-Numpad2: Forces apps to 45Hz with ASW disabled. Depending on the application, you are likely to experience judder.
• Control-Numpad3: Forces apps to 45Hz with ASW enabled. Enabling and disabling ASW will help you see the effects of ASW.
• Control-Numpad4: Enables ASW. ASW automatically turns on and off, depending on whether the app maintains a 90Hz frame rate. This is the default runtime rendering mode.

I personally use the Oculus Tray Tool to disable ASW for BoS.

[Nelly2408]

Hello

Can one really improve with two GTX 1080 ti its fps and graphics in VR?

greeting

Nelly 2408

[Nelly2408]

 

what can I do hardware technically to improve the fps and graphics in VR?

[dburne]

what can I do hardware technically to improve the fps and graphics in VR?

 

I would start by listing your system specs and version of Windows.

 

Nothing much you can really do in the Nvidia control panel, other than setting " prefer maximum performance" which I highly recommend.

 

All else is basically tweaking the in game graphics settings along with your Pixel Density ( SS ) setting , which is done in either Steam VR or Oculus Tray Tool ( if you have a Rift).

 

I would start by at least turning off SSAO and HDR, and AA set to 0 or 2.

List your specs and folks with similar rigs can offer some good advice as well.

[=SqSq=switch201]

Can one really improve with two GTX 1080 ti its fps and graphics in VR?

 

I don't think VR supports SLI unless something has changed that I am not aware of

Edited October 5, 2017 by =SqSq=switch201

[pShootr]

With the new way steam SS settings (think they changed the actual SS so it is not the same as the Oculus tool works.)

 

How high should I be able to push it?  3.0-4.0?

What should be my target Frame rate?

Should I use the Oculus tray tool or not?  Some say, don't use the tray and use SS in the steam settings.

[TG-55Panthercules]

With the new way steam SS settings (think they changed the actual SS so it is not the same as the Oculus tool works.)

 

How high should I be able to push it?  3.0-4.0?

What should be my target Frame rate?

Should I use the Oculus tray tool or not?  Some say, don't use the tray and use SS in the steam settings.

 

1. Your best bet is to run the benchmark track test (which starts at 1.7 SS via Steam VR), and increase SS by maybe .2 each time until you see a significant FPS drop.  For me, the big drop-off occurs between 2.3 and 2.6, so I generally run with 2.3.

 

2.  Some of the language from the devs was a little confusing on this point, but IIRC target frame rate setting is a non-VR concept, and should just be ignored/turned off for VR.

 

3.  AFAIK, Steam VR can do everything that OTT can do, and we have to run SteamVR for IL-2 anyway, so I never use OTT and am not sure why anybody would at this point.

[pShootr]

1. Your best bet is to run the benchmark track test (which starts at 1.7 SS via Steam VR), and increase SS by maybe .2 each time until you see a significant FPS drop.  For me, the big drop-off occurs between 2.3 and 2.6, so I generally run with 2.3.

 

2.  Some of the language from the devs was a little confusing on this point, but IIRC target frame rate setting is a non-VR concept, and should just be ignored/turned off for VR.

 

3.  AFAIK, Steam VR can do everything that OTT can do, and we have to run SteamVR for IL-2 anyway, so I never use OTT and am not sure why anybody would at this point.

 

Thank you very much for the response... much appreciated! 

[dburne]

 

 

3.  AFAIK, Steam VR can do everything that OTT can do, and we have to run SteamVR for IL-2 anyway, so I never use OTT and am not sure why anybody would at this point.

 

 

 

I myself use and love the OTT. I figure since I have the Rift I might as well use their software for it's settings, which the OTT utilizes.

 

I have individual game profiles for SS, ASW status, default mic and default audio to Rift when Oculus Home starts, back to my main speakers when Home closes. 

Also in my case with the Innatek USB 3.0 card those sensors can sometimes disconnect with power savings, and with that card each boot of the pc re-enables allowing them to power down - the OTT has a setting to set everything to high performance and they stay on as I have the Tool set to run at windows startup.

 

Guess I have just gotten so used to using it now it is my preference.

[pShootr]

I myself use and love the OTT. I figure since I have the Rift I might as well use their software for it's settings, which the OTT utilizes.

 

So if you have the Oculus tool open, it will override the SS setting on the steam VR?

 

What should my target frame rate be?  So far in steam I am 3.8 and running smooth.

 

Guess I am supposed to hit right cntr + numpad 1 before I get in plane.. in other words while in hanger.

 

slow learning  cant wait to go live servers

[dburne]

So if you have the Oculus tool open, it will override the SS setting on the steam VR?

 

What should my target frame rate be?  So far in steam I am 3.8 and running smooth.

 

Guess I am supposed to hit right cntr + numpad 1 before I get in plane.. in other words while in hanger.

 

slow learning  cant wait to go live servers

 

Only one or the other should be used for SS, not both.

I myself don't worry too much about framerate, and don't have a target. As long as it is smooth and a pleasant experience, that is what matters.

 

I have the center VR View assigned to a button on my HOTAS, I do it once I first get into cockpit and it pretty much stays where I want whilst in that gaming session.

[chiliwili69]

 

 

So far in steam I am 3.8 and running smooth

 

I think that 3.8 (SteamVR) is a bit too much even for a 1080Ti.

Above 2.8 (or 3.0) it will start to drop your fps and the visual quality you gain may not be justified.

Pressing backspace you will the the fps ingame counter.

[pShootr]

I think that 3.8 (SteamVR) is a bit too much even for a 1080Ti.

Above 2.8 (or 3.0) it will start to drop your fps and the visual quality you gain may not be justified.

Pressing backspace you will the the fps ingame counter.

Thanks !

 

Thanks dburne!

 

So far, I think it is best no OTT and to fire up IL2 from the Oculas Home page after it is open. (3.2 SS on Steam settings)

 

Has anyone figured how to stop the bird background noise I get from Oculus home page?  I can hear it when I am in VR in IL2 hanger.

 

Hmmmmm? 

[TG-55Panthercules]

So far, I think it is best no OTT and to fire up IL2 from the Oculas Home page after it is open. (3.2 SS on Steam settings)

 

Has anyone figured how to stop the bird background noise I get from Oculus home page?  I can hear it when I am in VR in IL2 hanger.

 

Hmmmmm? 

 

Well, why not just start BoX from the BoX shortcut without running it from Oculus Home?  That's what I do, and besides giving me one less thing to be running while I'm playing it means I don't get any background noises from it.

[dburne]

Thanks !

 

Thanks dburne!

 

So far, I think it is best no OTT and to fire up IL2 from the Oculas Home page after it is open. (3.2 SS on Steam settings)

 

Has anyone figured how to stop the bird background noise I get from Oculus home page?  I can hear it when I am in VR in IL2 hanger.

 

Hmmmmm? 

 

That is odd, I do not get that background noise after launching BoS from within Oculus Home.

[chiliwili69]

 

 

Has anyone figured how to stop the bird background noise I get from Oculus home page?  I can hear it when I am in VR in IL2 hanger.   Hmmmmm?

 

Here I explained how to run BOS in VR without Oculus Home:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30119-tips-new-rift-owners/?p=495911

 

The "Don" trick is explained here:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29586-how-prevent-oculus-home-starting-steam-vr-games/

 

PD: I call it the "Don trick" despite Don prefers to use OTT with Oculus Home. 

[dburne]

Here I explained how to run BOS in VR without Oculus Home:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30119-tips-new-rift-owners/?p=495911

 

The "Don" trick is explained here:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29586-how-prevent-oculus-home-starting-steam-vr-games/

 

PD: I call it the "Don trick" despite Don prefers to use OTT with Oculus Home. 

 

 

Thanks for the honorable mention.

 

I found myself preferring to have Oculus Home running so I could use the Tray Tool with a set profile. And I really could not see any noticeable difference in performance either way.