New moving platform with Pimax 8K (2*4K)

[chiliwili69]

The motion platform market will see a full revolution with all the arrival of VR, specially in museums, thematic parks, exhibitions, malls, etc

 

Look at this new "toy":

 

The Pimax guys are already using that for their new 8K device:

 

 

The new 8K (4K per eye) device seems will use positional tracking, so it will be very interesting to read reviews about the final product.

https://veditto.com/pimax-8k-vr-3d-headset-review-next-generation-device

4K per eye will be awesome for BOS. The "Smart Rider" platform will be just mind-blowing. 

 

In fact, FOV and resolution are the only two things to beat in current 1st gen VR.

I wonder what kind of rig would be needed to run that at 120Hz. In comparison is like running with SuperSampling=4 in SteamVR and try to reach 120fps.

 

I really don´t know what would be the resolution of the new 2nd gen Rift or Vive (probably they don´t know as well) but will need to be something higher than 2K per eye, desirable 4K per eye. We will then would not need to do SS (I hope). In any case in 1.5 years can happen many things.

Edited August 27, 2017 by chiliwili69

[Fran13]

not sure if my wife will approve that

[chiliwili69]

 

 

not sure if my wife will approve that

 

   

 

Don´t tell her!!  Once it is at home she will like it!

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Can we use that to ride horses in VR? Then mine might approve     

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

No need for that ride ,Entrim 4d this is future, if save for humans

[Jade_Monkey]

I'm curious how 8k works. Not a lot of gpus would handle that well. Is there some sort of scaling or wizardry going on?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Could be like in human eyes clarity or call this high resolution is just small spot - hence technology to track eyes movement.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Without eye fov tracking this is impossible anyway. Current consumer rigs cannot handle IL2's demand on full detail, especially not km these resolutions. I doubt other games could achieve that either. So,.. naw. They need to put that into pimax, else it will be useless for the home consumer

[1./KG4_OldJames]

Maybe an extra gpu in the headset would solve the problem

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

My GTX 1080 is twice the size of the Oculus Rift right now. Maybe in a few years! :-D

[BeastyBaiter]

Without eye fov tracking this is impossible anyway. Current consumer rigs cannot handle IL2's demand on full detail, especially not km these resolutions. I doubt other games could achieve that either. So,.. naw. They need to put that into pimax, else it will be useless for the home consumer

 

I'm not sure it would be an issue for BoS. The main limiting factor for us now in BoS is poor CPU usage. BoS barely touches my GTX 1080 TI at ultra detail in VR, it's entirely a CPU bottleneck at 45-90 fps. It's also worth mentioning that two 4k displays is no where near 8k, so it isn't as rough as it sounds. I'm sure someone around here is running a triple 4k monitor setup, that would be 50% more than the pimax 8k.

Edited September 10, 2017 by BeastyBaiter

[GrendelsDad]

I run a triple 4k when not in VR with 2 980 TIs and staying pegged at 60 fps most of the time.  My CPU is an i7 6700 O.C. 4.6(can run 4.8) but I like the buffer.

[Irgendjemand]

The Pimax 8K will definately be mine if until it will be released there is no info on second gen HMDs from HTC or Oculus.
The FOV, resolution, tracking all sound very promising.

[coconut]

This looks very interesting. Pimax takes a lot of flack on some forums because of the inflated numbers on their marketing sheets and choice of names, but if you look past this they still have a product that looks very interesting for sim users. Even if one needs to render at a lower resolution and upscale, I still can't wait for the day when I get rid of the big hexagonal pixels. Weird thing is my sight isn't even that good, yet I can't help notice them while flying, whereas it seems many others aren't bothered by that.

 

One thing that annoys me with oculus is their closedness. Vive users should be able to buy the Pimax 8K and reuse their controllers and tracking system. Oculus users are out of luck. Oculus was good to get one's feet wet, but if they want to keep me as a customer they'll have to announce a high quality headset pretty soon.

[Irgendjemand]

+1 even if the picture will be rendered lower res and interpolated up it will still be a big improvement. Not to speak of the FOV wich is almost equally as important as the higher resolution.

The current resolution was the gamebreaker and reason to sell my rift.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Irgendjemand

[Jade_Monkey]

+1 even if the picture will be rendered lower res and interpolated up it will still be a big improvement. Not to speak of the FOV wich is almost equally as important as the higher resolution.

The current resolution was the gamebreaker and reason to sell my rift.

Anything beyond the planes is pretty ugly (landscapes etc). The cockpits are beautiful though.

 

If anyone played other VR games the resolution is not such a big problem, but in flight sims we focus a lot on spotting and looking out of the window, which is the weakest point of VR headsets.

 

Off topic, if anyone wants to try fun VR games check out Arizona Sunshine (zombie shooter) and Pavlov (the vr Counter Strike with maps such as de_dust included in the workshop).

 

Ironwolf is a good submarine sim if you are into that.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Yea the new pimax with proper tracking will be interesting. I might also get it for simming.

 

Regarding those complaining about low resolutions in current gen, I cannot help but repeat that it is 100% certain they just butchered their settings, because spotting is much easier in current gen VR than on a giant 4k screen, provided you use the right in-game settings and some SS for polish.

 

The last sentence sounded weird :D

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

May I add that the review link in the OP is advertising, and not a review. Just FYI. The last pimax "4k" wasn't good for IL2 btw. Still curious though about this one, especially if this one has latency-free tracking, no dropped frames, lenses comparable to Vive/Rift, and proper software support. IL 2 currently doesn't feature eye FOV rendering yet

Edited September 12, 2017 by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

[GrendelsDad]

I have to disagree with the statement 4k is no good for IL2.  Aside from the last Nolo vr update that borked the tracking it has been a great cheaper alternative to the other big boys.  Not saying its better but it certainly offers benefits the others do not. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I thought you said that it was no good due to the tracking issue. Since my statement was largely based on that and that people said the lenses were weak and the airplanes and objects would trail "shadows" when moving and that there was no translational tracking, I guess I will be forced to retract the statement and turn it into "not optimal for IL2" (neither are the current premium hmds btw).

Edited September 12, 2017 by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

[GrendelsDad]

I think the next generation will fill gaps all around for VR.  I will say once Nolo VR updates their driver which they are in the process of doing it should be back to normal for 4k.  The Pimax does lack 6dof...but there are many cheap ways to achieve this.  I agree Fenris, this gen. of HMDs were a learning process for the buyers and manufactures alike.  I look forward to the competition among vendors.  I will say I am overall pleased with my Pimax though I do play on my triple monitors still from time to time because it looks so darn good.

[dburne]

The Pimax 8K will definately be mine if until it will be released there is no info on second gen HMDs from HTC or Oculus.

The FOV, resolution, tracking all sound very promising.

 

I think some of that is perhaps marketing speak, not sure about it being true 8K.

 

But for those really interested, you may have opportunity to get in on the ground floor with a Kickstarter campaign...

https://www.roadtovr.com/pimax-8k-vr-headset-coming-kickstarter-later-month/

[Irgendjemand]

Campaign started yesterday.
I decided to wait. Too much money in case it sucks. Ill just wait till the first kickstarters have been delivered and reviews are there.
If it rocks I might jump the train then.

[ICDP]

There are two different 8K headsets availalable on the kickstarter, one is upsacling from 2560x1440, the 8K X is native 4K but $300 more expensive.  The 5K with 200 degree FOV and 2560x1440 looks like a nice spec to be fair.  It will give a much improved resolution and pixels per inch over Rift and Vive even with the increased FoV.

[coconut]

 

Go to 22:00 if you want to skip the interview and get to the test itself

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

That's very interesting. I have to try it. I will wait though, until it is available in Europe, being sold from a legal outlet in Europe. I have had my share of experience with East-Asian vendors, and I am very very very sceptical.

 

 

Edit: Watched that video to the end. They do not recommend the Pimax yet, there are two issues that need to get fixed first, one was choppy movement, second are too bad lenses which distort the view with rings around the vision. The issues that the asian guy reported also indicated that the lenses are not going well together with glasses. The rest they liked, even the LCD displays were acceptable without shadowing (Vive and Rift have better quality OLED ones).

 

So, they first got to prove what they can do.

 

The price tag is too high to play their guinea pigs.

Edited September 20, 2017 by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

[ICDP]

Their Pimax 4k has been quite a success despite not having 6DoF or roomscale.  Bear in mind this 8K/5K version is not a Kickstarter with zero product or no prototypes, they have presented multiple prototypes and early production models to reviewers and at tech shows.  They are also fully compatbile with exiting Steam VR and HTC Vive software/hardware.  In 4-5 months backers will start getting their new 200 degree FOV, higher resolution VR headsets that work instantly with Steam VR.  It is unfair to outline the issues these headsets may have without also listing the far larger amount of issues with CV1/Vive.

 

For me these headsets are already confirmed to eliminate or significantly reduce the issues I have with the CV1.

• SDE
• Low resolution
• God Rays
• Binocular (scuba diver FOV)

In the end I backed the standard 8K version at $450, I figured for the extra $100 I would forever regret getting "only" the 5K.  Though the 5K does have about 25%-30% higher PPI/resolution than CV1/Vive, even when extra FOV is taken into account.

 

Rift/Vive PPI: 461

Pimax 5K PPI: ~530

Pimax 8K PPI: 806

Edited September 21, 2017 by ICDP

[A_radek]

I find the higher Fov very interesting. With VR we gained proper depth perception, but as I understand it, we pickup the sense if speed primarily with our peripheral vision. If so, an increasd fov and full throttle on the deck would make me smile.

 

Not to mention the neck strain of checking your six. When driving I can check my six quite well even without having a swivel feature on the car seat.

[dburne]

 

In the end I backed the standard 8K version at $450, I figured for the extra $100 I would forever regret getting "only" the 5K.  Though the 5K does have about 25%-30% higher PPI/resolution than CV1/Vive, even when extra FOV is taken into account.

 

 

 

Will be looking forward to your reports!

[ICDP]

Will be looking forward to your reports!

 

Me too

 

I am very critical of the CV1, I felt it has very, very poor IQ issues I could simply not ignore.  I expect the 8K Pimax to be a large jump in IQ, even with up-scaling from 2560x1440.  If all anyone is interested in is sit down cokcpit VR experience, it is worth remembering the basic Pimax 5K kickstarter is actually cheaper than a standalone Rift CV1, though you will need to get a HTC Vive base-station.

 

Rift CV1 standalone - $399

Pimax 5K Kickstarter - $349 + (HTC Vive basetation to enable 6DoF ~$100)

 

$50 more for higher res and higher FoV.

Edited September 21, 2017 by ICDP

[chiliwili69]

Thanks Coconut for letting us know this video. The thing that worries me most if that they said that it is like stretching a 110FOV image over a 200FOV, and the pixels out of the center have some distortion. This is using SteamVR games created for 110Fov, I suppose that in future the game developers will modify the render mechanism based in the FOV of the connected device.

So, this would be the first problem you should expect with BOS.

 

Despite of this I have just backed their campaign giving them 50$ (I always want to help the weakest). For me it is still early to commit to more, will wait for reviews.

[ICDP]

Thanks Coconut for letting us know this video. The thing that worries me most if that they said that it is like stretching a 110FOV image over a 200FOV, and the pixels out of the center have some distortion. This is using SteamVR games created for 110Fov, I suppose that in future the game developers will modify the render mechanism based in the FOV of the connected device.

So, this would be the first problem you should expect with BOS.

 

Despite of this I have just backed their campaign giving them 50$ (I always want to help the weakest). For me it is still early to commit to more, will wait for reviews.

 

Yes the FoV warp is a concern.  Though their quote about stretching FoV should not be taken individually form the rest of the review.  They did say going back to Vive or Rift felt very restrictive and that the warping was only at the edges.  Most existing VR ready games are designed with existing headsets and their 90 - 110 degree FoV.  I suspect it will be something easily fixed by devs or in drivers.

 

I just read this response to the FoV warp question from a dev on the Pimax forum.

 

"The FoV para is got by the SDK(not only Pimax, Oculus & OpenVR is the same), and we have tested almost games in steamvr, it's no problem. at other hand,the lastest version of openvr sdk can support the large FOV now. You will see wider view, and better gaming experience."

Edited September 21, 2017 by ICDP