Bugger

[HagarTheHorrible]

First time online in ages and the first thing I do is shoot down a friendly. How humiliating.

 

In my defense, I play in VR so ID'ing can sometimes be a challenge but principally it was an error of assumption.  I had an unidentified aircraft trying to maneuver as if to attack, but I stayed high waiting for an opportunity, he was then joined by another aircraft, they circled each other before going their separate ways, with neither attacking the other I decided they must both be opposition. The second aircraft having had a sniff around and having lost interest flew off, giving me the opportunity to jump him while not making myself overly vulnerable to my first assailant.  It was only when he rolled over onto his back, mortally wounded that I noticed the red stars and realized my error.  Bugger !!!!!!!!!

[Madov]

Been there!

[Wulf]

If no one else saw it, it didn't happen m8.  

[HagarTheHorrible]

If you shot down a friendly in real life, and you thought nobody had witnessed it, would you admit it or would you take it to your grave ? Maybe you'd be filled with horror and remorse but would you confess ? I think it would be very difficult.

 

I've read lot's of stories from WW2 but I don't think I've ever come across journalistic pieces, or accounts from veterans who made catastrophic errors of judgement that resulted in the deaths of friends or comrads, about what happened to them and how they felt about it, how their friends and families felt about it.

 

The only instance I personally know about is a pilot who was in the RAF with my father. He was involved in an accident taking off in a C130 in which several paratroopers were killed. The board of enquiry put it down to pilot error. My mother and I met him a couple of years later, it was obvious that it had destroyed him, taking little care of himself and a shadow of his former self according to my mum, although as a young boy at the time I wasn't really aware of the what's and why's.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

happens all the time mate, its the people that don't say sorry that annoy me.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

When Germany invaded the Soviet Union in Jun 1941, however, he was caught in the thick of it. While stationed in Moldovan Soviet Socialist Republic, his airfield was bombed by German aircraft on the first day of the invasion. In response, he scrambled in his MiG-3 fighter to challenge any aircraft in the air, only to mistakenly shoot down a Russian Su-2 light bomber.

Nothing happened after it besides some orientation on identifying new friendly models, the regiment hadn't been informed of the Su-2's presence in the area so they mistakenly intercepted a formation.

[InProgress]

 

For some reason people in games always cry about friendly fire, they always want realism but when they get FF they cry and insult.. this is part of experience and i don't really mind it, if it's not asshole that team kills you on purpose then it's ok.

 

FF is not nothing special, it's something that happens all the time, even in old times there were incidents where they were some armies would attack their own in sword fight.

There is nice source about many accidents like this but not in english,

 

1461 - The Two Roses War: In the battle of Towton a strong wind made the missiles fall both on the enemy and on their own units;

1809 - Battle of Wagram: French troops mistakenly shot their Saxon allies. The Saxon uniforms were gray, which made the troops erroneously identified as Austrian (the Austrian army wore white uniforms);

 

British RAF did torpedo run on HMS Sheffield, their own ship.. and people expect you to always be 100% sure that this little dot of a plane is yours :| oh noo, FF i better insult him, his mother for 10min and how he should never play this game again.

 

There was nice scene in stalingrad movie from 1993, german soldier killed his own and panicked, then 2 of his friend came and told him that he should not be worried and it happend to them as well

Edited August 20, 2017 by InProgress

[HagarTheHorrible]

If I remember rightly, just after D-day, when the Allies broke out of the Normandy beachhead an American bomber formation started it's bomb run early and pulverized the troops about to jump off from the start line, killing about 800 of their own side.I always wondered what happened to the commanders , the aircrew, involved. I'm sure some of the commanders lost their jobs over it but what about the feelings of guilt of being part of it from those lower down the pecking order. What was the mood at the base afterwards, was the unit disbanded, crews farmed out to other units. Was there an acceptance, a but for the grace of God go I for those involved.

[Lusekofte]

The killing of own troops by artillery, strafing and bombing never did give any real consequence, other than mourning and stress. Fighterbombers in France 44 , bomber formations and artillery was briefed , but sometimes the front moved so fast that attacking fighters believed it was fleeing enemy and not advancing friendly. 

I read about a incident in Vietnam where Huey gunners strafed their own, and the remarks about the incidents made me believe it too was not uncommon. 

It is fact of war, but the difference is real life and virtual life, we can afford to spend a little time identifying . 

But seriously, in your case you did take your time, you thought before acting, and in my mind then it is ok. FF due to not bother considering the possibilities of FF is far worse

[BlitzPig_EL]

Wait, Hagar, I thought VR made everything so much better.

 

Now I'm hearing from multiple sources that getting a good ID on aircraft, and spotting ground targets is MUCH harder in VR than on a standard monitor.

 

What gives here?

[Nibbio]

Spotting is easier, since targets are are 'life-size'.

However IDing is more difficult due to the low resolution.

[dburne]

Spotting is easier, since targets are are 'life-size'.

However IDing is more difficult due to the low resolution.

 

Precisely.

[HagarTheHorrible]

It's why God invented labels,

 

It's just that some little devil keeps nicking them. I certainly prefer the challenge and uncertainty playing without but it does present strategic positioning challenges. Spotting targets at maximum range is improved but even then they are more fuzzy blob rather than a solid shape.

 

It's all just a matter of horses for courses.

[blitze]

Not to worry mate, happened to me too.  I See someone buzzing the airfield in swallow dive maneuvers and it was whilst the field was reported under attack and so I squirt him with my MG, oops, he be a friendly.

 

Another time I pull in on a plane which I saw Finnish markings and I am flying VVS so I blow him out of the sky, oops, he was apparently on our side.  Boy did he bitch and moan and baying for my kicking.  I apologise when ever I do it.  It is not easy in combat to be sure especially when new to the sim.  I even was lambasted by a server for attacking friendlies on the ground but the map had tank farms of both sides right on top of each other so it was a little hard to distinguish who I was attacking especially with heavy flack flying to say hello to me.

 

C' est la vie.  Just don't bomb hospitals and wedding parties like people do in modern combat ))

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Shooting down a friendly is a terrible feeling.

 

Luckily I can only recall two incidents since flying online in VR with my HTC vive in over 100 hours on WOL.

One was a squad mate flying through my arc or fire and the other was a Macchi and non VR pilots had already fired on it, but Macchi's don't really count right? 

If I'm not sure, I don't fire.

 

Spend some time on identification practice for the rear of the plane, as that is where you will most often be firing from. If your flying servers with icons on, get some practice in without the icons - estimate what plane type it is then switch back on the icon to confirm. Identification gets easier. I struggled at first moving to VR.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I've made a head on pass against what I thought to be a Fw-190 but was actually an La-5, both missed.

 

In an FNBF 5000m furball I took a cannon round to the face from my flight leader during a head on too, I saw him but he took me for a 109. We laughed it off, it was so unfortunate it's hilarious.

 

My favourite came in a group sortie on DED though. After losing three Il-2s to a reinforced position, we send up the same three Il-2s plus two LaGG-3s for flak suppression and escort. We coordinate it like old gods of war - the Il-2s are to fly at 500m, directly facing the the emplacements. As the Il-2s are about to enter AAA range, the LaGG-3s flying at 1500m shall peel off, space out the pair and flank the AAA (already taking aim at the Il-2s) to bomb the guns at a 45 degree angle, one bomb for each of the 4 guns, and clear the area just as the Il-2s start their attack run. The execution was masterful, we dived like falcon and placed our bombs, with the correct spacing, right at the targets! The Il-2s were already at work when I get disconnected from the server.

 

A few seconds of confusion ensued where my wingman notes he mysteriously died, too. Then it clicks - I'd forgotten to set an impact or short times fuse. Right when my wingman dropped his goods, the blast from my bombs took him out and earned me a 24 hour ban! Everyone was laughing for a good few minutes, and it was a funny story to remember.

 

We need to take the light side of the game too. Any form of entertainment needs that light-hearted feeling for whenever you really FU beyond what you thought to be possible

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

Did that once...saw 2 "enemy" fighters and i attacked them from behind. Got one of them in my sights and right when i squeezed the trigger i realized "oh shit!"

[Luftschiff]

Friendly fire happens, and for the most part you accept it with a sigh or a laugh - As long as there is an apology I really don't think it's worth getting upset about. That said, the more annoying and frustrating FF incidents are repeat offenders, or those who'll park on your rear and ignore the "you are firing on a friendly" warnings, blinking lights, jinks and text messages in the chat begging them to desist. At a certain point, when you're chased for several minutes and gradually picked apart by a friendly with a thousand opportunities to re-ID your plane - it's not just a mistake, it's laziness and incompetence.