VPC Mongoose Initial Impressions

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I also ordered the t-50, via their new Amazon.co.UK store. They said processing would be much faster, and I waited long enough for that store to open. I will report on how their processing and delivery times are, and will review the quality of the stick here as well. I am kind of thrilled for it!

 

Vkb does not deliver to Europe anyway, so I scratched them out of the book. You can't buy from people that cannot deliver, after all.

[s3b4]

I also ordered the t-50, via their new Amazon.co.UK store. They said processing would be much faster, and I waited long enough for that store to open. I will report on how their processing and delivery times are, and will review the quality of the stick here as well. I am kind of thrilled for it!

 

Vkb does not deliver to Europe anyway, so I scratched them out of the book. You can't buy from people that cannot deliver, after all.

https://flightsimcontrols.com/

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

S3b4, thank you, but these have nothing in stock. I tried to order one in the past even via E-Mail to the US distributors, in order to get something send to Europe. 

 

Given the horrific history of incredibly long delivery delays in the past regarding VKB, and their European target to stack up being January/February 2018 (which will probably mean April 2018), the adapter mess that they have created with various revisions, and no standards whatsoever, as well as me doubting that they offer any kind of decent costumer post-sale support, I went with Virpil. 

Addendum: I correct myself, they have posted on Oct 1st that they intend to start shipping in February 2018. That means they will arrive in Europe in April 2018, according to VKB history. I'm not into waiting 6 months.

[dburne]

 I went with Virpil. 

 

 

I doubt you will have any regrets.

 

I also have a VKB Gunfighter Pro I ordered in March that is still sitting here waiting on the new MCG Pro grip. At some point I hope to do a comparison of the two, but am not going to hook it up with the stock limited button grip. I suspect they are going to be fairly close in feel and operation.

 

The Virpil setup is a pretty complete setup especially with the extensions and desk mount that is more readily available at this time.

Edited October 9, 2017 by dburne

[Sokol1]

S3b4, thank you, but these have nothing in stock. 

 

Not wrong with this, MCG grips and new Gunfighter batch was not manufactured yet, so no way to someone have then in stock.

 

USA seller are taking pre-order based on expectations. The EU seller opt in do sales only when receive the new products - since they work with VKB at several years, has this reasons. 

 

In the end both options is good for consumers, the avid and the cautious.

 

And to be fair they have Gladiator PRO and T-Rudder in stock. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Sokol1

[dburne]

Not wrong with this, MCG grips and new Gunfighter batch was not manufactured yet, so no way to someone have then in stock.

 

 

To be fair the Gunfighters have been out for several months now. 

 

Many of us have had them for some time awaiting these dang new MCG grips. 

Sure the " new batch" of Gunfighters will be a different revision regarding where the pins are placed ( in grip rather than base afaik only difference). 

Edited October 9, 2017 by dburne

[dannybooze]

I have a question maybe you guys might know if the vpc base is compatible with the kb12 ww2 grip from vkb? Just wondering because I ordered a t50 assembly because I like the base but I would.like to eventually get the kb12 ww2 grip

[dburne]

I have a question maybe you guys might know if the vpc base is compatible with the kb12 ww2 grip from vkb? Just wondering because I ordered a t50 assembly because I like the base but I would.like to eventually get the kb12 ww2 grip

 

I don't think so, I think VKB is 3 pin and Virpil is 5 pin ( same as Warthog).

 

Perhaps someone might know of a way or adapter to make it work.

Edited October 10, 2017 by dburne

[Sokol1]

I have a question maybe you guys might know if the vpc base is compatible with the kb12 ww2 grip from vkb? Just wondering because I ordered a t50 assembly because I like the base but I would.like to eventually get the kb12 ww2 grip

No way, VKB grip/connectors is all proprietary, work only in their own bases/electronics.

 

- Unless you do a extensive DIY inside the grip.

 

But, Baur and Cheeb2006 sell KG13-B like grips - more "replica" than VKB version (no POV HAT), both can be used in VPC(VirPil) base.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Sokol1

[dannybooze]

Thank for info I’m curious as I like both but if I play il-2 I wanna use a ww2 style, I see they put the tmw grip on Virpil base and vibe base so I would think you can put the kg12 on it but you guys know more than I do, is it the pins or softwear compatibility?

 

 

No way, VKB grip/connectors is all proprietary, work only in their own bases/electronics.

 

- Unless you do a extensive DIY inside the grip.

 

But, Baur and Cheeb2006 sell KG13-B like grips - more "replica" than VKB version (no POV HAT), both can be used in VPC(VirPil) base.

[Sokol1]

 I see they put the tmw grip on Virpil base and vibe base so I would think you can put the kg12 on it but you guys know more than I do, is it the pins or softwear compatibility?

 

 

Length attempt to explain:

 

 

 

 

KG-12 "lookalike" exist only from VKB, that use proprietary electronic circuit INSIDE the grip and proprietary connectors (1) plus proprietary mechanical adapter in their removable grips - for now only KG12-A in Gladiator PRO or Gunfighter, until that MCG grip hit the market.

 

This electronics and conector make this grip not compatible with any other joystick base on the market - bases that accept removable grip is few:

 

Tm Cougar (obsolete) - accept Cougar and Warthog grips.

Tm Warthog - accept Warthog and Cougar grips and VirPil/VPC t50 grip.

VirPil (VPC) - Accept VirPil, Warthog and Cougar grips

VKB - Accept VKB grips and Tm Warthog grip with VKB electronic and mechanical adapters.

 

So use VKB KG12-A in any other joystick base is not viable...  "Unless you do a extensive DIY inside the grip."

 

You need disassemble the grip, remove VKB circuit leaving only buttons and HAT, install a Shift Register circuit - need assembly a PCB, install a NON EXISTENT* adapter for make this KG12-A grip compatible with Tm Warthog/Cougar bases, what you make then compatible with VirPil/VPC base (and too Baur base).

 

* But Debolestis  (go in their topics in DCS forum)  can draw a adapter - if you take precise measures of KG12-A internals -like he did for some grips, e.g. Suncom F-15, Tm B-5 for attach in Warthog base, besides the adapter you need a Gardena hose nut, or print one from Debolestis Shapeways.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3262942&postcount=337

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160114&highlight=debolestis+shift+register+PCB&page=21

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/debolestis

 

If you have DIY skill and tool this "MOD" will don't cost much, and is not difficult get a standalone VKB KG12-A grip because several people that bough Gladiator PRO or Gunfighter don't like this "few buttons" grip and prefer use Warthog grip, some biased at point in not even do a test with an bough VKB base with this grip. 

 

Announce in sim forums that you want one Gladiator KG-12A grip, in the "Flea Market" of the Russian side of this forum eventually apear some.

 

To illustrate what I am talking about, this ancient Tm Top Gun B-8 grips was adapted with the mentioned above parts for use in Cougar base hence compatible with Warthog, VirPil/VPC and new Baur bases, just "bolt and play" because all this bases follow the same standard.

 

- Installed a Shift Register PCB inside.

- Wired buttons and POV HAT ins this new PCB.

- Installed the pole adapter with the Gardena nut and PS2 connector.

 

 

Of course done this MOD the KG12-A grip will loose their compatibility with VKB base, like happen with Warthog grip with adapter for VKB base, loose compatibility with Warthog base.

 

(1) Believed or not, but each generation of VKB connectors make VKB grips incompatible with... VKB bases.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Sokol1

[Sokol1]

Dannybooze

 

I think the best to do is go to VKB forum and ask for an KG-12A adapter for Warthog, knowing that people want use this "few buttons" grip in Warthog base (don't tell that you plan use in VPC base ) can lead then to make one.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Sokol1

[ACG_Invictus]

Might want to see if Debolestis from the DCS forum would be interested in making a connector.  He does this a lot of others joysticks, and has even offered to make a VKB adapter for me for the old Suncom Talon F-15 stick if I could make measurements and send them to him. I end up not needing to do so because one of his adapters for the Warthog will work with the existing VKB Warthog adapter. Check his Shapeways shop out for ideas:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/debolestis

 

He also has made a few nice shift register circuit boards that work with VKB and Warthog/Cougar sticks over on OSH PARK that I've used and they work pretty good. 

 

https://oshpark.com/profiles/Debolestis

 

Sorry if Sokol already brought this up...I didn't read back through the whole post and know he's aware of Debolestis's work, since I found out about his work from posts Sokol made on SimHQ and other forums.  :D

[dburne]

Nice video walkthrough I ran across of replacing cams and springs on the Virpil gimbal for those interested:

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by dburne

[dannybooze]

Wow thanks guys lots of info guess ima have to bug virpil,guys to make one haha

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

My Mongoos T-50 has arrived last week, but I could only test it out by now. It's ridiculously awesome, the most incredible joystick I've ever possessed. For comparison I have used MS Sidewinder FF2, Warthog Hotas, Saitek X55. I will most certainly buy the Virpil throttle as well, once it is out. This is just another quality class here, recommend it to everyone, including extension and their mount. It's very comfortable, within 10 seconds you can loose it and move the mount to the side for when you don't fly. From order to delivery took just less than 2 weeks in total by the way.

[dburne]

My Mongoos T-50 has arrived last week, but I could only test it out by now. It's ridiculously awesome, the most incredible joystick I've ever possessed. For comparison I have used MS Sidewinder FF2, Warthog Hotas, Saitek X55. I will most certainly buy the Virpil throttle as well, once it is out. This is just another quality class here, recommend it to everyone, including extension and their mount. It's very comfortable, within 10 seconds you can loose it and move the mount to the side for when you don't fly. From order to delivery took just less than 2 weeks in total by the way.

 

 

 

Congrats!

 

Yeah I have no telling how many hours on the Virpil stick now, and it is so very smooth. My gunnery skills and ability to line up a shot has increased nicely over what it was prior to this stick.

[Jade_Monkey]

My Mongoos T-50 has arrived last week, but I could only test it out by now. It's ridiculously awesome, the most incredible joystick I've ever possessed. For comparison I have used MS Sidewinder FF2, Warthog Hotas, Saitek X55. I will most certainly buy the Virpil throttle as well, once it is out. This is just another quality class here, recommend it to everyone, including extension and their mount. It's very comfortable, within 10 seconds you can loose it and move the mount to the side for when you don't fly. From order to delivery took just less than 2 weeks in total by the way.

Glad to hear that the quality is indeed much better than the X55 (not a high bar).

 

I went with the MCG for the stick but im most likely getting the Virpil throttle.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I also included the Warthog Hotas there 

 

Have fun with your new stick and hope it will arrive soon (no sarcasm)

Edited October 19, 2017 by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I've started thinking of replacing my VKB Gladiator Pro. It is a great joystick but before purcheasing it I thought it will offer more than it actually does (and it was advertised initially as such) and that pricing will be somewhat more affordable for EU, but in fact it was horribly expensive (including shipping) for what it does. Thus as much as I love it, I think there are better options and after possibly selling it I'd move to something that offers extensions (I will miss the grip itself though, I really like the feel, comfort and realism it provides - inability to combine it with any other base is yet another flaw). So what remains is VKB Gunfighter Pro (more of VKB stuff though) or this VPC Mongoose,  being for me more affordable and right around the corner since I live in Poland, thus shipping costs should be limited and possibility of customer support across the border should be working well. Still, I'd like to hear some opinions before actually making a decision.

 

If buying, I'm planning to get the extension set with it.

[dburne]

So what remains is VKB Gunfighter Pro (more of VKB stuff though) or this VPC Mongoose,  being for me more affordable and right around the corner since I live in Poland, thus shipping costs should be limited and possibility of customer support across the border should be working well. Still, I'd like to hear some opinions before actually making a decision.

 

If buying, I'm planning to get the extension set with it.

 

I have many hours in now with my Virpil setup, and it is an incredible stick - I absolutely love it. Support has been fantastic with it as well.

 

Keep in mind it is designed as a center mount stick, so yes getting the extension kit would be a great move. I am using mine with 150mm of extension. You will also want the desk mount for it as well which they offer at a reasonable price. It certainly is not designed to sit on a desk.

 

They have had an issue with some on their cams, where folks have received some rough cams. They quickly addressed by sending replacement cams to those that did, hopefully they have this solved. A minor issue really, I would not consider to be a deal breaker at all. 

 

The VKB Gunfighter Pro I am sure is a great stick as well, I have one also just waiting on the new MCG grip due out now in Dec ( I have pre-ordered). I would imagine both VKB and Virpil are close in feel and quality. VKB is probably not as available at this time as the Virpil so likely would be a bit more of a wait. Have had the Gunfighter since April still waiting on this new grip for it, am waiting on it before giving it a try.

[No_85_Gramps]

Originally we were planning to produce this "Desk Plate" however, due to some changes and lack of demand it went on the backburner. It's also worth considering it would be very impractical, roughly similar to trying to use a TM Warthog with a 75mm/100mm extension while on top of your desk!

Are there still plans to produce this base? It is exactly what works for my set-up. 

[Sokol1]

I've started thinking of replacing my VKB Gladiator Pro. ... (I will miss the grip itself though, I really like the feel, comfort and realism it provides - inability to combine it with any other base is yet another flaw). 

 

You mean VKB KG-12A grip?

 

You will be able to buy Gunfighter combos with MCG or MCG PRO grip + KG-12A grip.

 

VirPil base can use Baur or Cheeb2006 KG-13B grips (but they are less joystick grip than VKB, are more "replica" grips without POV HAT and [iMO] expensive).

 

But with small DIY skill (make solders) is easy convert VKB KG-12A for for Warthog/Virpil base standards (I explain above in this topic).

 

How get VKB KG-12A grip only? People like DBurne are only awaiting VKB delivery MCG's grip for trow their KG-12A grips in garbage bin, deal with then. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Sokol1

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Yes Sokol, KG-12A, that is in my Gladiator Pro. I dont know what the fuss is about and why some do not feel like using it. Obviously it does not have that many buttons but for ww2 sim to fly around that is satisfactory number. I like the feel of it and comfort it provides. It just fits my hand really well. 

Gunfighter at the moment is not available and who knows when it may be available, they are too damn slow at manufacturing those things. Hence my sadness that I'll have to dump that grip. And Baur or any other grips wont suffice primarily for the reason of additional cost. If purchased VPC will already be the most expensive peripheral I've ever acquired. As a matter of fact it will be more expensive than my cpu, mobo and ram combined. So no additional costs. I could try to mess with the KG-12A grip but I've never been good with any conversions. 

[dburne]

The nice thing about the Virpil offering, is it being a complete turn key product for those willing to center mount it to the desk. 

Comes with a great gimbal system ( hopefully cam situation has smoothed out so to speak), along with the three varying length extensions and a nice grip with several buttons. Also a reasonably priced and very good desk mount bracket. 

And is pretty much available now. ( extension kit and desk mount bracket of course sold separately).

Edited October 31, 2017 by dburne

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I've pretty much made up my mind. Now there is one thing I wish to ask. What is the maximum and optimal extension setting ? I see you are using 100 + 50 mm extensions to get 150 mm, while previously using 175 mm. From the specs on virpil website it appears that desk mount has adjustment range from a 50mm to 300mm drop, so there should be plenty of room to go beyond 175 mm. The problem could be my desk however and hence the question, so that I can figure if everything will "match" my own desk. 

[dburne]

I've pretty much made up my mind. Now there is one thing I wish to ask. What is the maximum and optimal extension setting ? I see you are using 100 + 50 mm extensions to get 150 mm, while previously using 175 mm. From the specs on virpil website it appears that desk mount has adjustment range from a 50mm to 300mm drop, so there should be plenty of room to go beyond 175 mm. The problem could be my desk however and hence the question, so that I can figure if everything will "match" my own desk. 

 

Well I have my desk mount bracket dropped all the way to the lowest point, and I found with the 175mm extension my arm was angled up a little. By going with 150mm my arm is basically straight out toward my desk and seemed to be a little more comfortable. 

 

With the extension kit and bracket though one is free to experiment with varying lengths to find the one they like best.

Edited November 2, 2017 by dburne

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Would you do me a favor and measure two things ? I'd like to know exact length of the desk mounting from the point of mounting to base and then length of stick from point where it is attached to desk mount (base of the stick basically) up to the very top of the stick. That way I can figure where to mount it on my desk and if there might be any need to raise my chair. 

Thank you in advance ! 

[VIRPILControls]

Would you do me a favor and measure two things ? I'd like to know exact length of the desk mounting from the point of mounting to base and then length of stick from point where it is attached to desk mount (base of the stick basically) up to the very top of the stick. That way I can figure where to mount it on my desk and if there might be any need to raise my chair. 

Thank you in advance ! 

 

It's worth noting that the VPC Desk Mount is height adjustable - you can raise or lower the MT-50 Base as you please and then raise or lower the MT-50 Grip independantly based on which extensions you use!

[dburne]

Would you do me a favor and measure two things ? I'd like to know exact length of the desk mounting from the point of mounting to base and then length of stick from point where it is attached to desk mount (base of the stick basically) up to the very top of the stick. That way I can figure where to mount it on my desk and if there might be any need to raise my chair. 

Thank you in advance ! 

 

I am not sure I completely understand, but here is what I have for the following:

 

Measuring from the bottom front of the desk mount bracket, running horizontally to where it attached to the gimbal:

App 6 inches. ( sorry don't have metric tape measure).

 

Measuring vertically from bottom of gimbal housing to top of my stick with 150mm extensions:

App 19.75"

 

However keep in mind for that second measurement, there are a bunch of adjustments up and down that can be done through both the desk mount bracket ( can be moved up and down by removing 4 screws  ), and then the varying lengths of the extension kit. It comes with a 50mm, 75mm, and 100mm extension that can be put together for different combinations.

So really for the height of the stick, lot of possibilities as Cyph3r mentioned.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Cool, thank you for this dburne. What is the status of software at the moment ? Any need to calibrate this stick once it's plugged in ?

[dburne]

Cool, thank you for this dburne. What is the status of software at the moment ? Any need to calibrate this stick once it's plugged in ?

 

Software is still pending, have not heard an ETA on it.

 

I had no need to calibrate at all. And definitely do not try to calibrate in Windows, it will not do the brake lever axis properly and will mess it up. ( it sees the button on the axis as end of axis travel).

[Sokol1]

For calibration DView and DXTweak2 is option, until their software is not finished.

[Jade_Monkey]

 

Could anyone ( maybe some VPC MongoosT 50 owners ) tell me which stand would match with the MongoosT 50 base ?

https://www.monstertech.de/produkt/joystick-hotas-tischhalterung/

 

I already have 2 like this, 1 for the throttle and 1 for the joystick ( Saitek X56 ) but i want to replace the joystick as soon as possible, so i could send back the one for the joystick and getting another one for MongoosT 50 

Thank you

 

 

 

Has anyone found out about this? They still don't have it listed on their site.

 

I sent them an email but I'm wondering if anyone else also contacted them about the mounting for the Mongoos T50

[Jade_Monkey]

I got a response, it sounds like the plates from monstertech will be available soon. From email:

 

Hi,

 

The Virpil Mongoos plates are almost ready. They will be available very soon.

 

Kind regards

Olsen