VPC Mongoose Initial Impressions

[dburne]

Hey gang,

 

Now that I have logged about 4 hours of flying- all in BoS -   with the new offering from Virpil, I wanted to share my initial impressions.

I have been flight simming since the early days of bootable floppies to run them in DOS. The vast bulk of that time I have used TM Hardware, and have been flying with a Warthog with 7.5 cm extension on a Monster Tech table mount. I have always been pleased with the Warthog, although I did have to replace the grip not too long ago due to faulty button, and the throttle a year or so ago due to it bricking on me.

I do also have a Gunfighter Pro, however it is still new in box awaiting their new grip offering , so will not be making any comparisons to it.

 

So what I ordered was the T-50 base and grip, the desk mount bracket, and extension kit.

Everything came packaged nicely in two boxes, wrapped together as one for shipping purposes.

I ended up with the following serial numbers:

Grip - 000092

Base - 000017

 

After enlisting a little help from Cyph3r, who has been very helpful to me throughout this process, I was able to get the desk mount bracket set up properly. There are two plates mounted in between the frame with a total of 8 bolts and nuts, these need to be removed to orient those two brackets properly.  I lowered the mount as far as it would go ( very adjustable), as I wanted to use longer extension. The desk mount is very nice and solid, with VPC and their logo cut into it. It works quite well.

 

The extension kit is 3 sections, consisting of a 50mm, 75mm, and 100mm length tube. They can be interconnected allowing one to really fine tune the height they would like to have. There are also three varying length connectors to accommodate for this. I have ended up for now, using the 100mm and 75mm , so am flying with a 175mm extension on my Mongoose.

 

It also comes with two extra sets of cams, with varying feel. Hard center is installed, and the extras are soft center, and no center. Also has two sets of springs, Medium comes installed, extras are I believe firm and soft.

You also get another wrist rest for the grip, smaller than the installed one I guess for smaller hands maybe. As well as a nice dust cover for the grip.

 

So I got everything all hooked up yesterday, and have been really giving it a go.

I am very impressed! I got quickly acclimated to the longer extension and the feel of the gimbal. It is so very precise and smooth! It is nice being able to move the gimbal all throughout the movement and actually feel when you are moving the pitch versus the roll, something not so easy to tell with the Warthog gimbal system.

 

It is taking me a little longer to get acclimated to the button positions, but that is just retraining my memory of which buttons are where versus the Hog. The buttons are very nice with an easy movement/push to them.  Even the trigger guard, which when down can be pulled in to give another button press. I have initially set up my two stage trigger to give machine guns on first stage, and all guns on second stage. I set up the trigger guard button for my cannons only.

 

The brake lever is really nice as well, and very smooth in operation. It is an axis ( as long as on Mongoose base), and also a button press as well. I say as long as on Mongoose base, as the grip is plug and play with the Warthog base as well. No adapter needed.  However with the Warthog base, one would lose that axis on the brake lever and it would be just a button press - like the Warthog grip paddle.

 

I have made some very nice takeoffs/landings with the Mongoose, and maneuvering seems to be much smoother for me as well. I am flying with a pretty big grin on my ugly face lol. 

 

Some in the initial batches that got sent out, received their extra cams in an unpolished state and have small ridges on them. Virpil identified the issue promptly after another user brought to their attention , and have corrected and offered replacement cams for those affected.

I am one of the affected ones, so hope to have my replacement set here soon. The gimbal is very customizable, and I want to go to the softer centering cam, and softer springs. The stock springs are just a little too springy for my tastes, and the center a little too hard for what I would like. Appears it will be easily customized, but I want to wait until I receive the new cams before opening her up to replace the springs with softer ones, so I can just do it all at one time.

Also I should mention, the gimbal box also has two small access holes in the top plate, one labeled pitch and the other roll. There is a flat head screw in each, one can turn in or out to adjust the tension on the middle of the stick. Very nice feature! I adjusted mine out to where it had some free play around center, then just adjusted back in to where it felt about right around center for my needs.

 

As far as software, there currently is none but I understand it is under development and will be forthcoming soon. That is really no big deal for me, as I now prefer to just do all my own mapping in the game rather than joystick software.

 

I think at this point I can say unequivocally, my Warthog stick is officially retired. It served me well and I salute it, but this one is a whole new ball game for me and I am loving it! I am really looking forward to getting the replacement cams and opening her up to make some final adjustments, as good as it is now, I can only imagine how good it will be then!

 

Some pics below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thad]

Looks like a quality product.

[Sokol1]

Also I should mention, the gimbal box also has two small access holes in the top plate, one labeled pitch and the other roll. There is a flat head screw in each, one can turn in or out to adjust the tension on the middle of the stick. 

 

This feature can be seem at 5:58 in this video:

 

https://youtu.be/7hFivQyfWv8?t=358

Edited August 19, 2017 by Sokol1

[Retnek]

Thank you for the first impressions - I bet quite a few readers are waiting for the thumb of the imperator. Do we have to expect a long time to wait until Gunfighter Pros new grip will be available? Anyhow, please share your further experience! Looking at the pictures you are using the grip without slewing it a few degrees to the right - do you intend to check this option, too? It's obviously a good thing to slew it looking at the anatomy, but somehow I fear how long it will take to "re-train" my grip-feeling as I'm used to a centred and aligned grip since the early DOS-days, too.

Edited August 19, 2017 by 216th_Retnek

[Lusekofte]

I have a real stick and a maxflightstick. both floor mounted and with a lot of twist degree. there is nothing to it getting used to that, have the stick center mounted it is needed . What really give you a feel of realism is the 1 to 1 movement on the stick compared to the sim. You really have to move it around. It is a great immersion, might not be a advantage in a dogfight, but really accurate in aiming

[dburne]

Thank you for the first impressions - I bet quite a few readers are waiting for the thumb of the imperator. Do we have to expect a long time to wait until Gunfighter Pros new grip will be available? Anyhow, please share your further experience! Looking at the pictures you are using the grip without slewing it a few degrees to the right - do you intend to check this option, too? It's obviously a good thing to slew it looking at the anatomy, but somehow I fear how long it will take to "re-train" my grip-feeling as I'm used to a centred and aligned grip since the early DOS-days, too.

 

It is easy enough to adjust the stick, just loosen the locking collar and turn it however far left or right you might need. It seems to work pretty well for me as I have it, may end up adjusting it a little as I go.

[Jade_Monkey]

Nice review!

Definitely a contender for my next upgrade.

 

I was wondering: how easy it is to move the desk mount around for when you want to switch to non-simming?

[dburne]

Nice review!

Definitely a contender for my next upgrade.

 

I was wondering: how easy it is to move the desk mount around for when you want to switch to non-simming?

 

It is very easy. Just loosen the clamping screw a little - has a metal rod going through it you just turn by hand,  and slide it right off. I have taken mine off and put on several times since getting it going, takes just a few seconds.

[dburne]

I will tell you I have logged probably an addional 6 hours or so with this stick since I first posted my impressions here, and the more I use it the more I like it. 

 

It seems to have really helped my gunnery. I just flew mission # 17 in Ivan's War Campaign ( which I am enjoying thoroughly), and it was a ground attack mission. After dropping my bombs , which successfully hit a target, I did a few strafing runs with my cannons on some vehicles that were assigned targets. I managed to successfully get most of them myself, and my accuracy laying those rounds on them was way better than I used to be. It seemed to be much easier for me to align my gun-sight on them and successfully hit them.

 

So far the only critiques I would have for the Mongoose - and these are very small things and more down to my personal preference:

 

Gimbal Boot - IMHO, it does not cover enough. There still is an open area exposing part of the gimbal, which would allow dust/debris to maybe accumulate in there over time. Maybe not really much of an issue, but I like seeing the rubber boot fully enclose this area.

 

Desk Mount Bracket - Probably because I came from a Monster Tech Mount for my Warthog, I wish the distance between the joystick mount plate and the desk bracket was adjustable. Obviously it is designed to give enough clearance if one uses all of the extension set kit, however if not all used it would be nice if it could be moved in a little. Again a very small thing, as overall the mounting bracket is solid and does a great job. I also realize it is much cheaper than say a Monster Tech Mount, and this is part of the reason.

 

Overall though, I am extremely pleased with this purchase. Virpil has done a great job with this first offering of theirs.

Edited August 23, 2017 by dburne

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Nice read, great reviews from all, is the resolution of the gimbal on par with the gladiator pro mkii? I have the mkii pro gladiator and find it is a higher fidelity than the warthog was, especially over time warthog for as expensive as it was didn't last very long, and I'm for one very happy with the new metal gimbals coming out! Sure took long enough!

Edited September 18, 2017 by 71st_AH_Mastiff

[dburne]

Nice read, great reviews from all, is the resolution of the gimbal on par with the gladiator pro mkii? I have the mkii pro gladiator and find it is a higher fidelity than the warthog was, especially over time warthog for as expensive as it was didn't last very long, and I'm for one very happy with the new metal gimbals coming out! Sure took long enough!

 

I am not sure what the Gladiator Pro resolution is, according to Virpil's specs on theirs:

​"High levels of accuracy are provided by the onboard VPC Controller and VPC Contactless Digital Proximity Sensors. Offering a total of 5,000 steps across the stick's travel, movements as small as 0.006º are detected."

 

I have absolutely loved the stick and have many hours in it since getting it. 

​However I will advise, on Saturday I decided I wanted to go with soft center cams and softer springs. So I took it apart to replace the cams and springs. That did not go well for me at all. One of my cam screws was in there really tight and the screw stripped very easily trying to get it loose.

 

Then I did a stupid thing on my part, and tried to force it out with a drill. That did not go well at all, and in fact ruined the gimbal for me. The screw broke off but not before imbedding into the aluminum bar of the gimbal  that was just behind it locking the gimbal into place. I should have just left that cam in place and lived with it for now.

 

I contacted Cyph3r on Sat evening , and yesterday the Virpil team and I came to a very fair resolution for me.  I have a new stick base on order and hopefully will have it here within a couple of weeks. It will have the soft center cams and soft springs installed for me, so hopefully I will not need to open this one up. I understand also Virpil has upgraded those cam screws so hopefully that will resolve them stripping so easily. 

Replacing the springs was easy enough, I would urge caution to anyone looking to replace their cams, just be very careful and not stupid as I was.

 

I am thrilled with the support I got on this issue, and this stick can not get here soon enough. Having major withdrawels now and whilst I still have my Warthog hooked up and could easily fly with it in the meantime, just don't know if I could go back to using it even for a short period while I wait after using the Mongoose - will see.

 

So after more hours than I care to think about using the Mongoose, my impressions are still the same - I would highly recommend this stick setup! And now having some experience dealing with support for it, I can say I am very pleased with that as well! 

Edited September 18, 2017 by dburne

[Irgendjemand]

I am not sure what the Gladiator Pro resolution is, according to Virpil's specs on theirs:

​"High levels of accuracy are provided by the onboard VPC Controller and VPC Contactless Digital Proximity Sensors. Offering a total of 5,000 steps across the stick's travel, movements as small as 0.006º are detected."

 

I have absolutely loved the stick and have many hours in it since getting it. 

​However I will advise, on Saturday I decided I wanted to go with soft center cams and softer springs. So I took it apart to replace the cams and springs. That did not go well for me at all. One of my cam screws was in there really tight and the screw stripped very easily trying to get it loose.

 

Then I did a stupid thing on my part, and tried to force it out with a drill. That did not go well at all, and in fact ruined the gimbal for me. The screw broke off but not before imbedding into the aluminum bar of the gimbal  that was just behind it locking the gimbal into place. I should have just left that cam in place and lived with it for now.

 

I contacted Cyph3r on Sat evening , and yesterday the Virpil team and I came to a very fair resolution for me.  I have a new stick base on order and hopefully will have it here within a couple of weeks. It will have the soft center cams and soft springs installed for me, so hopefully I will not need to open this one up. I understand also Virpil has upgraded those cam screws so hopefully that will resolve them stripping so easily. 

Replacing the springs was easy enough, I would urge caution to anyone looking to replace their cams, just be very careful and not stupid as I was.

 

I am thrilled with the support I got on this issue, and this stick can not get here soon enough. Having major withdrawels now and whilst I still have my Warthog hooked up and could easily fly with it in the meantime, just don't know if I could go back to using it even for a short period while I wait after using the Mongoose - will see.

 

So after more hours than I care to think about using the Mongoose, my impressions are still the same - I would highly recommend this stick setup! And now having some experience dealing with support for it, I can say I am very pleased with that as well! 

I replaced my cams as well. And i noticed the screws arent that good. However i had luck and mine came loose. I also am waiting on a set replacement cams and once they arrive here i will replace the scre ws with a set of better ones. I am glad to hear they aderessed this so future custoimes wont have to worry. I am also very happy with the customersupport! And most important. THE STICK IS AWESOME!

[dburne]

So I was having withdrawels here as I had not flown BoS in my PWCG campaign since this happened on Saturday, so since the Warthog was still plugged in I  said to heck with it this morning  and quickly clamped it to my desk and continued on with my campaign.

 

Ugh...

 

My new T-50 Base can not get here soon enough!

 

Now my Warthog has always done me well, I always said I was lucky and got a good gimbal from them back when I got it when first released.

It is just the T-50 Mongoose is that much better. Oh well at least I have this as a backup which is coming in handy at this time.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Are you still using 175mm? Why was the 100mm not enough? 

 

I'm getting my first joystick extensions, and I want to attain some knowledge about the issue beforehand.

[dburne]

Are you still using 175mm? Why was the 100mm not enough? 

 

I'm getting my first joystick extensions, and I want to attain some knowledge about the issue beforehand.

 

I was using 175mm on the Virpil stick,  however when my new base gets here I will be going with 150mm as I think that will be just about right for me.

I started out with the one 100mm extension, but had the base mounted down at the lowest point and it needed to be a taller, so I had increased it to 175mm.

 

On the Warthog I am using only a 7.5cm extension with a Monster Tech mount.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I see. Why did it need to be taller, is it because of the height of your chair, or does it give noticable accuracy benefits (I see the lever is larger that way). Do you rest the wrist on the upper leg, or on the armchair of a chair?

 

Sorry for the questioning

Edited September 21, 2017 by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

I feel the taller the more precise I can be with the movement of the stick. 

My wrist rests with the palmrest on the stick, which can be adjusted up and down some. 

[Sokol1]

Rough is: with a more long extension, if you make a lateral movement of grip of ~1cm, the sensor output command for controller/computer/game will be less than same 1 cm with short or no extension, so you hand control precision increase (electronic is less, but make no diference with that ~0.006 degrees of movement needed per "resolution point").

[VIRPILControls]

Are you still using 175mm? Why was the 100mm not enough? 

 

I'm getting my first joystick extensions, and I want to attain some knowledge about the issue beforehand.

 

Hi!

 

Just some further clarification on what others have said:

 

No matter what extension you use, the accuracy of the electronics will remain the same. The VPC MongoosT-50 Base will detect 0.006 degree movements, this is obviously a level of accuracy far beyond the capabilities of the human hand!

 

By adding extensions you increase the length of the lever/distance from the fulcrum. This has a number of immediate effects such as lowering the centering force (you can of course swap to stronger springs on the MT-50 or adjust the spring tensioners to maintain the same centering force), and increased precision and smoothness. The increased precision comes from the fact that the total stroke length/deflection has increased, allowing you to more accurately and consistently pinpoint where you want the stick to be.

 

The VPC Extension Set includes a 50mm, 75mm and 100mm extension. These can be combined in any combination to help you find the perfect extension length for you! 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Very interesting! Thanks for the heads up guys!

[Irgendjemand]

My new Replacement Cams arrived yesterday.
They are flawless now. If new orders get cams of this quality there is no issue.
Well done VPC and thanks for the great service!

[VIRPILControls]

My new Replacement Cams arrived yesterday.

They are flawless now. If new orders get cams of this quality there is no issue.

Well done VPC and thanks for the great service!

 

Excellent, I'm glad you like the new cams!

[Irgendjemand]

Time for some news about throttle and rudders:)
My Warthog throttle slowly falls apart and needs a replacement!

[VIRPILControls]

Time for some news about throttle and rudders:)

My Warthog throttle slowly falls apart and needs a replacement!

 

 

The current priority is the VPC Configuration Software and the EU distribution network. But don't worry, it won't be long until those are ticked off 

[Irgendjemand]

Awesome. Thanks.
Yeah the software. Almost forgot about that one:)

[Avyx]

Could anyone ( maybe some VPC MongoosT 50 owners ) tell me which stand would match with the MongoosT 50 base ?

https://www.monstertech.de/produkt/joystick-hotas-tischhalterung/

 

I already have 2 like this, 1 for the throttle and 1 for the joystick ( Saitek X56 ) but i want to replace the joystick as soon as possible, so i could send back the one for the joystick and getting another one for MongoosT 50 

Thank you

Edited September 26, 2017 by Avyx

[dburne]

 

Could anyone ( maybe some VPC MongoosT 50 owners ) tell me which stand would match with the MongoosT 50 base ?

https://www.monstertech.de/produkt/joystick-hotas-tischhalterung/

 

I already have 2 like this, 1 for the throttle and 1 for the joystick ( Saitek X56 ) but i want to replace the joystick as soon as possible, so i could send back the one for the joystick and getting another one for MongoosT 50 

Thank you

 

 

Send an email to info@monstertech.de

 

I had inquired with them if they were going to be offering a plate for their table mount to fit the Virpil base some time ago, they told me they had a Virpil T-50 on order and would be offering it at some point...

 

Since I got the Virpil mounting system I have been very happy with it though.

Edited September 26, 2017 by dburne

[Avyx]

I don't understand why isn't this plate available

 

 

[dburne]

I think they got away from offering it as a desktop model due to the heigth of the stick. It would probably be somewhat uncomfortable.

 

I will say, their desk mount along with the extension kit is really ideal for customizing one's setup for comfort. And the price was reasonable. I love using the longer extensions.

 

I have been flying with my Warthog with 7.5 cm ext on my Monster Tech mount while waiting on my new gimbal to get here. It is ok in the meantime  but I am really missing flying with the Virpil stick with the longer extensions, I was so much smoother with it. New gimbal is in transit, hoping to see it by the end of this week.

Edited September 26, 2017 by dburne

[Uufflakke]

I don't understand why isn't this plate available

 

According their website release date of the desk plate was planned at the end of June 2017.

Must have been delayed for some reason.

 

https://virpil.com/en/forum/vpc-hangar/65-desk-plate

[VIRPILControls]

I don't understand why isn't this plate available

Originally we were planning to produce this "Desk Plate" however, due to some changes and lack of demand it went on the backburner. It's also worth considering it would be very impractical, roughly similar to trying to use a TM Warthog with a 75mm/100mm extension while on top of your desk!

[Avyx]

Will the MongoosT 50 will be available on Amazon in Germany, as well??

If i order it right now, how long would it take to get it? Germany...

Thank you

[VIRPILControls]

Will the MongoosT 50 will be available on Amazon in Germany, as well??

If i order it right now, how long would it take to get it? Germany...

Thank you

Initially just Amazon.UK. However You will be able to order VPC products from Amazon.UK just as you could from Amazon.DE, except the product listing will be in English  

 

There is currently a ~2 week backlog due to the demand, so it is hard for me to estimate exactly when you would receive it at this moment in time!

[Irgendjemand]

Hey Guys. Here are two pics of my setup. Finished the centermount yesterday. 
I love the stick so I might even consider getting a VPC base for the left hand when i got a few bucks to spare.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Irgendjemand

[dburne]

Hey Guys. Here are two pics of my setup. Finished the centermount yesterday. 

I love the stick so I might even consider getting a VPC base for the left hand when i got a few bucks to spare.

 

 

 

Nice looking setup!

Great job on the Mongoose base mount!

[Irgendjemand]

thanks! Its build so i can control FPS and (proper) flightsimming in the same position without moving anything around first.
Am an SC backer and greatly looking forward to Alpha 3.0

Edited September 27, 2017 by Irgendjemand

[Nibbio]

Initially just Amazon.UK. However You will be able to order VPC products from Amazon.UK just as you could from Amazon.DE, except the product listing will be in English

 

There is currently a ~2 week backlog due to the demand, so it is hard for me to estimate exactly when you would receive it at this moment in time!

Still no amazon

[VIRPILControls]

Still no amazon

 

Unfortunately (fortunately!) due to the continued high demand we're already experiencing, the VPC Amazon store will be a soft-launch where we will only be accepting limited numbers of orders. However, hopefully by this week we will be able to open the Amazon store fully! Stay tuned - we're working on it! 

[Nibbio]

By all means, take your time. As far as I'm concerned, no amazon, no party

Edited October 2, 2017 by Nibbio

[dburne]

Ok so just to update on my previous situation, my Mongoose Serial # 17 is of course no more. Due to my try to replace the springs and cams , and not being able to get the pitch cam out. And of course I got heavy handed with it and toasted the gimbal.
 
So after communicating with Cyph3r and getting some assistance I ordered a new gimbal, I have been flying with my old Warthog in the meantime awaiting my new T-50 base. I sure did miss the Mongoose in the meantime.

Serial # 138 finally arrived yesterday afternoon. I had requested this base ship with the soft center cams and soft springs, which they kindly obliged in putting those in for me.  I carefully mounted my new base to the deskmount, and the Mongoose grip onto the new base along with 150mm of extension and started flying with it again yesterday evening and a lot of today.

 

The base came with the extra cams, 2 of the 1 dot ( no center ) and 2 of a 3 dot ( I assume what 4 dot used to be, hard center). The extra cams appear to be polished up very nicely.
I plugged the usb port back into my powered USB 2.0 hub I had the previous one plugged into, and all controls were recognized and working properly. Launched BoS and all my axis and buttons assignment were still there as I left them.

I really like the feel of the soft center cams combined with the soft springs, that was exactly what I was looking for. I did some fine tuning with the adjustment screws at the top of the base to get the center feel just about right for me, and the tension on the springs for both pitch and roll pretty much the same.

 

I started flying some yesterday evening and have spent a lot of time today flying BoS in my PWCG campaign I have going. Very pleased to be flying with the Mongoose once again! I probably have close to 4 hours or so now with this new base. I was previously running 175 mm of extension, but I went with 150mm this time as I wanted my arm more parallel than it was, hence little more comfort. After flying with the Warthog again for a couple of weeks it is really nice to be back flying the Virpil stick!

 

Now for a couple of minor things which I have already emailed Cyph3r on in hopes it gets passed along to maybe improve going forward. These are in no way deal breakers for me and I can easily live with them as is, and likely will soon forget all about them.

 

1: The cams. These have been a bit of bone of contention since the stick was released. Not surprisingly, after all this is their first offering. While my extra cams look very well polished, apparently the soft center cams they installed for me are not quite so smooth, especially the pitch cam. I feel a coarse grinding type of feel when moving the stick all along the pitch axis, can even hear it as well. It is not bad, and really somewhat minor. But compared to my previous gimbal which was smooth as could be, this is definitely noticeable. 

Cyph3r did kindly offer to get me another set of soft center cams sent right out, I told him however no need - can't see me trying to replace cams again after what happened to me the first time. I could probably handle it , as they are using better cam screws now , but not going to risk it. The cams will be fine as is!

 

2: I hear a little " clanging" type sound when moving the stick all across the roll axis. Out toward the extreme, and only does it when moving back in after hitting the extreme. And only does it on the roll axis. I don't feel it, just hear it ( when not flying of course). And again, compared to my original gimbal, it did not make those type of noises.

 

Lastly, when moving the stick all the way back on the pitch axis, it is like there is a notch there. It moves back almost to full back, then it moves over this little notch and then all way back to full stop. Again, very minor and really am not going to even be using it in full back position anyway. Not sure if this might be something in the cam or what.

 

I would stress again, these are very minor in my mind and are not going to affect my flying with this stick in any way. In fact whilst flying I really never even notice them at all.  I am so glad to have it once again and be flying with it. 

And I want to thank Cyph3r again for all of his support as I went through this, he really was great in helping me out.

 

Obviously I like the stick or I would not have ordered another T-50 base. And I look forward to many more hours with this fine setup going forward!

Edited October 4, 2017 by dburne