What are the best CPUs for IL-2?

[BeastyBaiter]

Some interesting info regarding Coffee Lake, initial sponsor ad is super long though.

 

 

 

Of particular note is the ability to overclock individual cores separately instead of all being the same.

[TG-55Panthercules]

Of particular note is the ability to overclock individual cores separately instead of all being the same.

 

I haven't tried it yet, but based on what I'm seeing in my BIOS, I think that's already possible with the i7-7700K

[chiliwili69]

 

 

BeastyBaiter, on 25 Sept 2017 - 22:56, said: Of particular note is the ability to overclock individual cores separately instead of all being the same.   I haven't tried it yet, but based on what I'm seeing in my BIOS, I think that's already possible with the i7-7700K

 

Yes, this is also possible with the 4790K. In BIOS there is an option "CPU Ratio Apply Mode" which is normally put for "All Core", but you can modify it to overclock just one core.

 

In fact, this is one of the thing that I will try to experiment in a not distant future... (from time to time I also like to play.... )

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/31305-can-i-force-bos-run-one-specific-cpu-core/

[Ribbon]

running i7 6700k non OC with 16gb 2400mhz ram and gtx1070 on 2k 144hz monitor, never had need to look and tweak settings. it goes from 90-144fps all the time.

[ZachariasX]

Some interesting info regarding Coffee Lake, initial sponsor ad is super long though.

Of particular note is the ability to overclock individual cores separately instead of all being the same.

Well, us customers get 2 extra cores for free on the same ol' thing. That's good and appreciated. It kills the purpose of the 7700K.

 

As Intel stakeholder I'd be worried about them having to sell a larger die for the same price as the previous item. The only speed bump to speak of over the 7700K is the 45% in multithread tasks, reflecting the two extra cores. And for the rest? Nothing to speak of. Not even for Intels marketing. Funny enough, not even Intel uses the "optane" memory in their top line reference systems, but SSD's instead. Who in their right mind would install a hybrid HDD for a system partition these days?? Even when upgrading?? They even have the balls of using HDD equipped systems as competition when running benchmarks.

 

Talking about competition, Intel says about the 8700K "the BEST (their emphasis) cpu for gaming". Ah. The $400 part is better than the i9 $2000 part?

Some interesting info regarding Coffee Lake, initial sponsor ad is super long though.

Of particular note is the ability to overclock individual cores separately instead of all being the same.

Well, us customers get 2 extra cores for free on the same ol' thing. That's good and appreciated. It kills the purpose of the 7700K.

 

As Intel stakeholder I'd be worried about them having to sell a larger die for the same price as the previous item. The only speed bump to speak of over the 7700K is the 45% in multithread tasks, reflecting the two extra cores. And for the rest? Nothing to speak of. Not even for Intels marketing. Funny enough, not even Intel uses the "optane" memory in their top line reference systems, but SSD's instead. Who in their right mind would install a hybrid HDD for a system partition these days?? Even when upgrading?? They even have the balls of using HDD equipped systems as competition when running benchmarks.

 

Talking about competition, Intel says about the 8700K "the BEST (their emphasis) cpu for gaming". Ah. The $400 part is better than the i9 $2000 part?

[Livai]

If Coffee Lake use the same architecture how Skylake-E use - epic fail again. Pretty sure intel not solder again his Core i7 8700k CPUs and use thermal paste again how he use it on their Skylake-E CPUs. AMD is in this part much better and not only there.

 

Many Game use the advantage of Quadcore Core i7 CPUs I mean their 4x real cores + 4x fake cores = makes 8 cores total. High clocked Octacore CPU with his 8 real cores is better than a same clocked Quadcore CPU.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

If Coffee Lake use the same architecture how Skylake-E use - epic fail again. Pretty sure intel not solder again his Core i7 8700k CPUs and use thermal paste again how he use it on their Skylake-E CPUs. AMD is in this part much better and not only there.

https://videocardz.com/72986/intel-core-i7-8700k-and-i5-8600k-review-leaked

 

[BeastyBaiter]

They use the same cheap thermal paste they've been using for years in them. It's already been confirmed by someone who delidded one.

[Livai]

https://videocardz.com/72986/intel-core-i7-8700k-and-i5-8600k-review-leaked

 

 

Thanks for the link. My feelings was right. RiP Intel even the power-consuming is crazy high for the Performance what the Chip deliver same as Skylake-E. xD - Intel run out of ideas how to beat AMD - xD.

 

 

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

They just seem to have run out of options in increasing IPC and clocks. Kabylake was already pushing latter one, while changing nothing in regard to first. Just adding two more cores certainly puts this arch in a new perspective, particularly if pricing is not drastically increased over previous generation but at the end of the day you pay the price of high temperatures and power consumption. Power consumption is problably the main reason behind new chipset and motherboard lineup, as they had to improve power delivery to satisfy new monster.

[Gambit21]

Time to update the bios on my Ryzen board - should be another boost in performance.

 

My i5 2500k that I replaced with the 1700 is the last Intel chip I'll own for quite some time.

[SeaW0lf]

Pricing was already released and it will have little impact; around $15-20 more for some models. Depending on the retail, the prices might level after a few months.

 

So far the leaked benches are on par with the predictions. It is a very strong (the best) CPU for gaming. Even the i5-8600K is being considered a safe bet for who does not want to pay for an i7. And the accounts say it requires less voltage than Kaby Lake and that they are overclocking above 5Ghz with ease. The i7-8700K is reaching 5.3Ghz with delid.

 

The general impression is that we will have a winner on the market on Thursday. The way Coffee Lake is being priced and how the i5 and i7 are performing so far, at least for gaming in general AMD might go back to the backseat again. The only question is how the i7-8700K will compare to the R7 in gaming and streaming. But in raw power they seem to pair in between the R7 line.

Edited October 3, 2017 by SeaW0lf

[CanadaOne]

Even with the new(er) CPUs that are out, the price of a good old fashioned i7-6700K remains painfully high. I'd like to throw one onto my MB but they are priced at $429 on Newegg and Amazon here.

 

That's $40 more than an i7-7700K.

[SeaW0lf]

Even with the new(er) CPUs that are out, the price of a good old fashioned i7-6700K remains painfully high. I'd like to throw one onto my MB but they are priced at $429 on Newegg and Amazon here.

 

That's $40 more than an i7-7700K.

 

But then it is your local store fault. And the (real) retail price is not that bad. The i7-8700K seems to smoke the R5 in gaming and it overclocks as well if not more than Kaby Lake and has IGP. In general the i7 is a more refined, complete CPU (although Ryzen has a more current architecture). People pay more for these things and the gain is not proportional to the price. It is exponential, and it applies for almost everything we buy out there, from freezers to clothing.

[kestrel79]

Anyone plan on getting one when they come out? I'm always curious to see how these perform in actual flight sims and not random benchmarks or trendy games I don't play. Would love to see some benchmarks of the new intels for XP11, DCS, IL2, etc.

[SeaW0lf]

Taking a look at Ryzen prices (that were cut recently). 

 

Ryzen 7 1700 has gotten trimmed from $329 to $315

Ryzen 7 1700X has dropped to $350 from $399

Ryzen 7 1800X is dropping from $500 to $460.

 

As the i7-8700K ($359) seems to be in between the 1700 and 1700X in benches (sometimes close to the 1800X) and it has IGP and overclocks to the moon, the price is pretty good actually.

 

It will depend on price X availability. Ryzen is out for several months, then you can find some good deals out there, but Coffee Lake is not looking bad in the picture.

Edited October 3, 2017 by SeaW0lf

[BeastyBaiter]

But then it is your local store fault. And the (real) retail price is not that bad. The i7-8700K seems to smoke the R5 in gaming and it overclocks as well if not more than Kaby Lake and has IGP. In general the i7 is a more refined, complete CPU (although Ryzen has a more current architecture). People pay more for these things and the gain is not proportional to the price. It is exponential, and it applies for almost everything we buy out there, from freezers to clothing.

 

The i7-8700k should smoke the r5 1600x, it's a whole lot more expensive. My R5 1600x cost $230 + $100 for an MSI B350 Tomahawk motherboard. Not counting the cooler, that's $330. Leaked + official pricing suggests an 8700k will be $360 + $200-ish for a comparable motherboard (MSI Z370 Tomahawk). That's $330 vs $560 for CPU + mobo, a 70% increase in price. Ryzen also uses solder instead of that crappy Intel thermal paste. So they run a bit cooler and can use a cheap air cooler with a max overclock instead of needing a much more expensive AIO of some sort. I expect Ryzen to remain the better CPU from a technical standpoint. Leaks suggest some serious scaling problems with Intel's new 6 core chips. But in games specifically, Intel's clock speeds will win out typically. Games have been built for quad cores for the last decade since that's what everyone had. It's only very recently that some developers have started exploring more than 4-8 threads. Of course, there are advantages to having free cores/threads, especially with Windows 10 deciding to randomly update itself while you're using the system.

 

Anyone plan on getting one when they come out? I'm always curious to see how these perform in actual flight sims and not random benchmarks or trendy games I don't play. Would love to see some benchmarks of the new intels for XP11, DCS, IL2, etc.

 

I am. I really like the R5 1600x, it works wonders in non-gaming and runs games great too. But DCS, the primary reason I bought a VR headset, doesn't work well with it. DCS 2.x runs 45 FPS and DCS 1.5 is unplayable in VR. That's no fault of my system's hardware but I have zero expectation ED will fix their crappy code anytime soon. So I either don't play DCS in VR or I swap CPU's.

[SeaW0lf]

Read my last post and you will understand. The pricing is competitive (it surprised me even). I reckon that a lot of Intel haters tap into the same keys (TIM paste, etc), but it is looking really good on paper, on price and on benches as well. And like I said, it overclocks really well. I think it will be a winner, and the forums in general are saying the same. Let's see the reviews.

[CanadaOne]

But then it is your local store fault. And the (real) retail price is not that bad. The i7-8700K seems to smoke the R5 in gaming and it overclocks as well if not more than Kaby Lake and has IGP. In general the i7 is a more refined, complete CPU (although Ryzen has a more current architecture). People pay more for these things and the gain is not proportional to the price. It is exponential, and it applies for almost everything we buy out there, from freezers to clothing.

 

Newegg and Amazon pretty much set the price and others follow. And I checked at two other big online sellers in Canada and they have the i7-6700K at close to $475. That's pretty much $100 more than an i7-7700K.

 

Ridiculous.

Just checked, and you can get a Ryzen 1600X and a nice Corsair liquid cooler for the CPU and 8 GB of RAM for the price of an i7-6700K.

 

Again, ridiculous.

[BeastyBaiter]

Read my last post and you will understand. The pricing is competitive (it surprised me even). I reckon that a lot of Intel haters tap into the same keys (TIM paste, etc), but it is looking really good on paper, on price and on benches as well. And like I said, it overclocks really well. I think it will be a winner, and the forums in general are saying the same. Let's see the reviews.

 

The pricing is competitive, I don't dispute that. I was merely responding to the 8700k vs 1600x post. I've seen that come up more than a few times and although I can see why someone would want to compare a 6 core 12 thread to a 6 core 12 thread CPU, the price difference makes such comparisons rather meaningless. In terms of overall price, the 8700k's closest competitor is the 1800x ($400 on newegg) while the i5-8600k can be matched to the 1600x. The second part I think is going to be the most interesting price point. Will 6 faster cores beat 6 cores with 12 threads? Going to be interesting to see how that pans out. I'm sure the i5 will win in most games for already stated reasons, but outside of gaming I'm not so sure. I suspect the 1600x will still win but that's just a guess.

 

The scaling issue is clearly shown in multiple leaked benchmarks and admitted by Intel itself. Take a Ryzen CPU, disable half the cores and you'll get half the performance. The leaked 8700k benches show something very different. They show equal single thread performance compared to the 7700k when at the same clock speeds, but only about ~40% greater overall performance despite having 50% more cores/threads. 15-20% of the expected performance improvement is lost due to limitations of the architecture (there is a reason Intel doesn't use it in their HEDT line).

 

The thermal paste issue is an long running complaint among Intel users. The fact that people delid the things to replace the TIM speaks volumes. Nobody delids a Ryzen CPU (or an Intel chip from pre-TIM times). Of course, it isn't an issue if running at stock speeds or with a modest overclock. But going for the max overclock the CPU will support does seem to require this.

 

Newegg and Amazon pretty much set the price and others follow. And I checked at two other big online sellers in Canada and they have the i7-6700K at close to $475. That's pretty much $100 more than an i7-7700K.

 

Ridiculous.

Just checked, and you can get a Ryzen 1600X and a nice Corsair liquid cooler for the CPU and 8 GB of RAM for the price of an i7-6700K.

 

Again, ridiculous.

 

I think what's going on is people decide after a few years that they want to swap their i5 for an i7 but don't want to buy a new mobo + RAM to do it. That drives the price of older i7's way up (4790k's are way more expensive than 7700k's). Though I'm surprised that's happened with the 6700k given that the 7700k should work just fine with a z170 board. On the bright side, retailers are practically giving away 7700k's at the moment. I looked a couple days ago and saw them as low as $280. 

[CanadaOne]

The 7700K is about $385 here, but that means Win10 and I'm not sure I want to go there. But 4.2 to 4.5Ghz out of the box is pretty tasty. I wouldn't even OC it. (Too much of a tech-zero for that.)

[dburne]

The 7700K is about $385 here, but that means Win10 and I'm not sure I want to go there. But 4.2 to 4.5Ghz out of the box is pretty tasty. I wouldn't even OC it. (Too much of a tech-zero for that.)

 

Win 10 is really not so bad, I like it myself.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

BeastyBaiter is right, while the price of 8700k/8600k looks appealing it still does not include even remotely decent cooler. If you plan to run it at anything above default, you should go for a decent air cooler (Noctua FTW) and even AIO. I'm planning to get myself Eisbaer 360 in the next few weeks and overclock my 2600k to 5.2 - 5.3 Ghz, in this case 8700k doesnt impress me. And truth be told, the idea to put "toothpaste" under IHS is horrible. I have a 6700k at work and after 16 months of constant use temperatures started spiking, so I've delided it. Turns out the thermal compound dried out and had to be replaced. It is not a fanboy complaint, it is a valid argument about longevity of the hardware people buy.

 

Also, I doubt that prices will remain on the recommended levels : https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_s_coffee_lake_cpus_are_rumoured_to_have_supply_issues_at_launch/1

 

Personally I'm looking forward to a Pinnacle Ridge, if it will clock to 4.4 - 4.5 Ghz it will provide more than a satisfactory singlethreaded performance with all the benefits of AMD arch.

Edited October 4, 2017 by =LD=Hiromachi

[ZachariasX]

the idea to put "toothpaste" under IHS is horrible.

When not when done correctly, yes. People tend to put way too much on it. It should be no more than filling all the scratches and gaps that exist between CPU surface and cooler instead of leaving an air layer as insulator.

But Intel did package the CPUs with explicit disregard for "power users". For them, the improved packaging with the 4970K (and related) CPU. But that is about it.

 

They show equal single thread performance compared to the 7700k when at the same clock speeds, but only about ~40% greater overall performance despite having 50% more cores/threads.

It is a terrible thing for Intel. For delivering about the same performance as the 7700K, they had to increase die size by 50% to come up with a reason to upgrade. For us consumers this is nice because it does mean more CPU per dollar. For Intel, this is direct a hit on the margins. Their 10 nm process is still a mess, meaning all we can expect from Intel for another year or so is do with optimizing the small process lead they still do have, but going larger in die size will have a proportionate impact on their margins. Especially the i9 CPUs are very expensive parts for Intel. Even the largest 18 core 7980XE is a monolithic die of 428 mm2. That size of die is usually only used for GPUs.

 

We really start to hit a wall for game performance with current code architecture. The 7980XE is almost the same performance for gaming as the Threadripper 1950X, even though the 7980XE has cores that individually can clock higher.

 

It is really about time that game developpers adjust to the reality of designing their code for multithreading if they really want to go beyond the possibilities we have now. If you can't run VR properly now, don't expect a new CPU any time soon to enable that for current code. There would be significant improvements in process technology required for this.

 

Right now, Intel still can tax "us gamers" because they have a slight edge in single thread and they do charge us for it. This is good for Intel. What is really bad, is that AMD offers same performance without without intentional limitations (no ECC, adressable memory capped, PCIe lanes limited) to the workstation parts that individually are priced such that they cost as much as an entire gaming rig or even a car. AMD has great CPUs, but they are great for workstation tasks that are highly parallel and require huge amount of (ECC) system memory. The 7980XE is much more expensive that the 1950X, delivering comparable performance. If it was the same price, Intels entire Xeon "blabla"-W processors pricing lineup would crumble. Intel is not just holding gamers hostage, they do such also with the professional market. Intel is certainly far from doomed, but the days of arbitary processor prices are fading. Given how GloFo and Samsung (plus others) are catching up with process technology, it doesn't look so good for Intel shareholders.

[BeastyBaiter]

Also, I doubt that prices will remain on the recommended levels : https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_s_coffee_lake_cpus_are_rumoured_to_have_supply_issues_at_launch/1

 

Personally I'm looking forward to a Pinnacle Ridge, if it will clock to 4.4 - 4.5 Ghz it will provide more than a satisfactory singlethreaded performance with all the benefits of AMD arch.

 

That is one thing that could keep me on Ryzen. It is entirely possible that Oct 5th is just a paper launch and we may have to wait 2-3 months before actually being able to buy one. If that occurs, AMD might have their newer Ryzen CPU's either released or nearly released. If AMD can bump the clock speeds up to around 5 GHz, Intel won't have anything going for it. But +20% clock speed seems a bit overly optimistic imho.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I doubt so. At this point I know that some 1800X can reach 4.1 - 4.125 Ghz tops, 1900X (Threadripper platform) reach 4.3 Ghz. Pinnacle Ridge is supposed to be the same architecture as Summit Ridge (current Ryzens) but with some optimizations and in new manufacturing process - 12nm LP. I'd expect results closer to 4.5 - 4.6 Ghz at best, which is more than enough in my opinion.

 

There are other things they can focus on rather than trying to follow Intel blindly to hit IPC wall. In my opinion greater gains would come with an improved memory controller, if they could lower latencies which are higher than in comparable intel products due to Infinity Fabric design. 4200+ RAM support would be sweet as well.

[CanadaOne]

Win 10 is really not so bad, I like it myself.

Might change to Win 10 in the spring for no other reason than that lovely 4.2Ghz 7700k goodness right out of the box. I have a decent MB with an i5-6500 and I can just drop a 7700k right in.

[ZachariasX]

In my opinion greater gains would come with an improved memory controller,

 

Games usually don't profit from that. If it was the case, then Threadripper would tank the i7 CPUs in games. Currently, games have very little IO load. That is also why everybody is happy running their storage attached to the chipset along with everything else. I find that in most games, can even neuter the GPU to 8 lanes and you see surprisingly little effect. Also clocking your RAM down from 3000 to 2400 has similar little effect.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

You confuse memory bandwidth and memory latency. Games do not benefit from bandwidth Threadripper provides (though in general memory bandwidth can affect gaming results), despite its quad channel but results between 1900X and 1800X are affected by latency sometimes quite significantly.

 

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Ryzen-Memory-Latencys-Impact-Weak-1080p-Gaming

 

 

Games, with the lone exception of the Civilization 6 graphics test, show a fairly high memory latency dependency, ranging from 21.7% to 29.3%. In comparison, general applications, with the exception of WinRAR, show very low latency dependency, in the mid- to low-teens.

 

 

In regard to memory clockspeed you are flat wrong, both Intel and AMD products benefit from higher speed memory. Ryzen particularly, as its Infinity Fabric runs in direct 1/2 memory speed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6zwbwp/ryzen_memory_frequency_latency_effect_on_gaming/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7013fz/the_witcher_3_novigrad_ryzen_performance_2666_vs/

 

Though in this case both memory speed and tight timings matter.

[ZachariasX]

I am well aware of the latency issue. And Treadripper has a great design, but it doen‘t make it the fastest in gaming. There, it is really mostly the core alone that matters mostly. That was my point. Intel also completely revamped the bus interface in the bus between the cores. So there is significant progress there. Now it is up to the devs to actually make use of modern systems.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Oh, with that last sentence I agree completely Zach. I remember in the days when first Phenom CPUs were launched that all industry press was calling for multicore support and greater use of resources hardware gives. Yet here we are almost ten years later relying pretty much on a brute force of single core performance. Hardware made huge improvements, but software did not keep up with it. 

[SeaW0lf]

For me it all comes down to a few things. The i7-7700K was already reigning in gaming in general and overclocked really well with a delided chip. But people were worried that a six core would limit the overclock cap or even the clock speeds. We know now that the base clock is pretty good (4.3Ghz in all cores) and the leaks indicates it overclocks as well as the i7-7700K (and people say with less voltage).

 

So you have an i7-7700K with two extra cores (long overdue) that overcloks as good as and might require less voltage. This is why everyone is so excited about it. And it will be a powerhouse for games and perhaps as good as a R7 for streaming. I agree that if AMD had offered any competition in this decade we would have much better CPUs in general, but that is how the market works. Without competition it stagnates. Who can really benefit from this is who will upgrade in 2019-20. We might have a new whole scenario then.

 

And the AIO thing is a given by now and a bit old. If you want brute power at the moment (in six cores), you have to invest. 

 

I just wanna see the reviews, because these leaks can be deceiving.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

According to videocardz timer only 17 hours are left until reviews come, just a bit more patience. 

 

 

 

And the AIO thing is a given by now and a bit old. If you want brute power at the moment (in six cores), you have to invest. 

However with this I disagree. Sandy Bridge offered brute power with no great need to invest, 4.8 Ghz on a really mediocre air cooler I have proves that. Previous to that I had Core 2 Quad 6600 which was a pure magic. CPU along with a new motherboard is already an investment, adding more to that raises serious concern. 

 

 

 

I agree that if AMD had offered any competition in this decade we would have much better CPUs in general, but that is how the market works. Without competition it stagnates. Who can really benefit from this is who will upgrade in 2019-20. We might have a new whole scenario then.

People would be buying Intel anyway, just like they did with Nvidia. Power of AMD as a brand is not comparable to its main competitors. Plus Buldozer (while a bad mainstream cpu) was also unlucky to land at the same time as one of the best CPUs in history.  

[SeaW0lf]

This review was leaked this week and now is official. If this is accurate, the i7-8700K is looking very strong, in between the 1700X and 1800X in general (just glanced over the results). Hardcop overclocked the i5-8600K to 5Ghz with only 1.2V. I'm not that savvy with overclock but it looks impressive). The benches for gaming are also looking really good. Let's see what the big websites brings today.

 

http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipseturi/english-review-new-charts-intel-core-i7-8700k-intel-core-i5-8600k-coffee-lake-aorus-z370-ultra-gaming

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I saw it, yes: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/10/05/intel_coffee_lake_core_i58600k_vs_7600k_at_5ghz_review

But your impression seems to be completely opposite to what author of that review had to say.

[BeastyBaiter]

The full reviews on youtube are live from all the usual suspects. Only watched 1 so far (hardware unboxed) but looks good. On the other hand, it is a paper launch. It is not actually possible to buy an 8700k or a motherboard for it in the USA at this time. I only found 1 8700k for sale, it's on ebay for $999 USD.

 

Edit: Motherboards are available now. CPU definitely not though.

Edited October 5, 2017 by BeastyBaiter

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

There were some available in Poland though. Or in Europe in general.

[ZachariasX]

In Switzerland, we have i7–8700 and i5–8600 available in numbers and for the „correct“ prize. The K flavor is not here, arrival unknown.

[SeaW0lf]

But your impression seems to be completely opposite to what author of that review had to say.

 

He's reviewing an i5...

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Doesnt matter if its i5 or i7, his point was related to nonexistent IPC gains:

 

At this moment, I am extremely disappointed in Coffee Lake when it comes to nonexistent IPC scaling over the last generation. But then again, it is far from the first time Intel has disappointed us in terms of moving forward when it comes to IPC. You can read reviews from us here and here, that showcase just how well the aged 2600K stands up against today's advanced Intel processors in gaming and IPC.

 

 

 

In Switzerland, we have i7–8700 and i5–8600 available in numbers and for the „correct“ prize. The K flavor is not here, arrival unknown.

Yeah, we had some K's as well but no 8400 is on the horizon. I guess one has to fight not only silicon lottery but also delivery lottery.