Parachute killer

[JG5_Schuck]

It would be pretty good if you could use your side arm or fire flares whilst in a parachute instead of just floating down to earth and disappearing after a few seconds,

Maybe you could even walk back to your own lines to avoid capture or use the flares to be rescued!

Not sure how effective a mid air shoot out would be though!!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Probably not useful but it would be extremely fun - who hasn't played flak gun with flares after crashing?

[Cybermat47]

If you guys consider the level of propaganda in other Communist countries of today like North Korea, you can think for yourself to get an idea on how much truth all these "facts" about the "evil German LW" hold, when even for the German infantrymen rape was punished by death in "Standgericht" (drumhead court martial). Not asking you to think into any direction - just reason about it by yourself, think of Stalinistic-style North Korea, and draw your own conclusions.

I think you should consider the level of propaganda in Nazi Germany before you go believing whatever they say...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#Rapes

 

Why is it so hard for people to understand that the Nazis and the Bolsheviks were both equally evil?

 

Anyway, I'm genuinely confused about how the story is "blatant propaganda". Is it really so hard to believe that a bunch of combatants shot in the general direction of each other, and that two of them then drowned?

 

Saying that your troops can fire weapons and that water drowns people isn't exactly inspirational...

Edited August 15, 2017 by FFS_Cybermat47

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

Why is it so hard for people to understand that the Nazis, Imperial Japanese and the Bolsheviks were both all equally evil?

 

-snip-

 

FTFY

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

when even for the German infantrymen rape was punished by death in "Standgericht"

 

-snip-

 

That's a bit disingenuous... The Red Army didn't allow rape... The US Army didn't allow rape... No modern army allowed rape... Officially, you would be court-martialed and likely executed. 

 

Unofficially, many of the modern armies raped, pillaged and took spoils of war during and after WWII.

 

However, to insinuate that the Heer (or the Wehrmacht as a whole) never perpetrated sexual crimes in occupied territories is an absolute insult to the memory of their victims. Those types of apologetic denials have NO place here.

[Venturi]

The more likely story is that the Germans landed on the ground in Soviet territory, and were shot. As would have likely happened had the roles been reversed. The story would have been manufactured after hearing of the Soviet pilot's ramming exploit.

 

The Russian war was as brutal as the Pacific war.

[von_Tom]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/at-96-american-d-day-hero-admits-he-never-fought-on-the-normandy-beaches/ar-AAqywAw?li=AA9SkIr&ocid=spartandhp

 

I cannot decide if this is sad, tragic or just stupid.

 

von Tom

[707shap_Srbin]

Why is it so hard for people to understand that the Nazis and the Bolsheviks were both equally evil?

 

I have much to answer on this [edited], but I will not enter into another political discussions. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I have much to answer on this [edited], but I will not enter into another political discussions. 

 

[edited] That's your opinion but he isn't wrong at all.

 

Objectivity goes far in a world of polarized viewpoints.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

 

The "we did nothing wrong" approach [edited]. The USSR was a victorious combatant nation that never fell under examination for any of the crimes IT DID commit.

Edited August 24, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It doesn't become fact if you repeat it ad infinitum. Take a brief look at the founding literature of each movement and tell me you don't see a difference.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

It doesn't become fact if you repeat it ad infinitum. Take a brief look at the founding literature of each movement and tell me you don't see a difference.

 

I'm not talking about ideological foundations - I'm talking about physically perpetrated war crimes.

 

Anyway, totally OT/ban material but denialism, revisionism and apologism are absolute insults and injustices to the people who paid the ultimate cost at the hands of criminals from both sides and I will retort when I see them rear their disgusting, ugly heads around here.

 

The repetition of denial doesn't undermine the fact either.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Show the same respect to the Soviet people then, since it was 27 million of their own people who gave their lives to stop the Nazis you consider equal to them. But OT, like you said.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Show the same respect to the Soviet people then, since it was 27 million of their own people who gave their lives to stop the Nazis you consider equal to them. But OT, like you said.

 

There is no tinge of denial or apologism in my post. I don't think you or PzBar can say the same.

 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Suit yourself, but let's agree to disagree - this isn't the place for discussing it.

[Cybermat47]

Why are you guys talking about Soviets when I was talking about Bolsheviks?

 

The Soviets were ruled by the Bolshevik Party, just as the Germans were ruled by the Nazi Party.

 

I never said anything about the regular Soviet people, I was only talking about the repressive Bolshevik regime that murdered millions of Soviets via famine and gulags.

 

I don't refer to the ordinary people of the USSR as Russians because the USSR wasn't just Russian. It was also Ukrainian, Georgian (Stalin himself was Georgian), Kazakhstanian, etc.

 

Calling the people of the Soviet Union "Russians" is like calling the people of the USA "Californians" in my opinion.

 

There are many Soviets who I very much admire and strive to be like, such as Aleksandr Pokryshkin, Valdimir Komarov, and Lydia Litvyak.

 

Sorry for the continued OT, but it's really weird to see an argument that was triggered by something I wrote, but isn't about what I wrote.

Edited August 23, 2017 by FFS_Cybermat47

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The thing is, a vast majority of people in the Soviet Union were behind the Communist party, particularly in what is modern-day Russia, Belorus, eastern Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Opposition was always present in smaller select regions, particularly in the Baltic states and western Ukraine (which is at the root of post-Soviet tensions in these regions). In saying the Communists were evil but the Soviet people weren't is like saying 90% of the Soviet people are evil but the Soviet people aren't, in your eyes. You can't distance both.

 

Modern perception is also skewed because for the most of the last century Western countries treated the Soviet Union and its government as the main political enemy. I'll give you a good example: ask anyone in the street in Australia about Gorbachev and you'll hear positive opinions, while in Russia you'll get a very long answer on why he's a c**t who destroyed the economy and so on.

 

My last input here is just to remind you, without any slight, that it's extremely hard to judge the impact of Nazism (and Communism for that matter) in Europe by reading articles sitting across the Atlantic or Pacific ocean where no German bombs fell. You need to speak to people who were there, on both sides of the debate, and look at how the war shaped the continent. Here its consequences are tangible realities, not abstract academic subjects.

[Aap]

I think the discussion is not about Gorbatchev or even Brezhnev. It is mostly about Stalin's period. The terror of that period was widely recognized even during later Soviet time. The millionsof soviets that died "due to nazis" that were used as cannon fodder by soviet regime or left to starve by the praised scorched earth tactics. Or the famine in Ukraine that happened already before the war etc.

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

Or the famine in Ukraine that happened already before the war etc.

Famine during 1932-33 killed 5-7 millions of people. Most suffered regions were lower Volga region, KhazakhSSR, UkrainianSSR and Caucassus.

 

 

 

The repetition of denial doesn't undermine the fact either.

I never denied war crimes of soviet soldiers wuring WWII. All I want to tell, that there must be no dowble standarts.

-soviet warcrimes in 1944-45 are bad thing. "Damn red beasts!"

-allied warcrimes are... "What war crimes? We are civilisated western nations! We never did that!" And dead silence about Maroccinate, raping of french women by allied soldiers, massive looting in France and Low Countries, e.t.c.

-German warcrimes? "We are just soldiers! We just did as ordered! We are not guilty!" What did german, croatian, italian, hungarian (soviet soldiers never took them prisoners - all caught hungarians were shot emmidiatly for their "fame" among civillians), estinians, lithuanians, latvians, french, ukrainians, wallonians, romanian soldiers is now silensed. But not in countries, wich lost millions of civilians.

 

But truth is: in Soviet Army, war crimes were judged as war crimes. With courtmartials and shots.

 

In Axis armies it was not. The whole war against USSR was considered by Hitler as a war of total annihilation. Again, annihilation of all population of European part of USSR. All food and goods must be robbed, all what was not need to germans - destroyed. It was a direct order not to treat soviets as other "civilisated nations", and show absolutely no mercy during combat actions in USSR territory.

 

And nowdays, when somebody tells me about "USSR was equal evil as Germany", I just getting mad. Tell it to Belorussians, who lost 1/4 of its population during WWII. Where over 3000 villages were burned completely, and after the war over 600 were never built up because there were no even 1 inhabitant alive.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

I never denied war crimes of soviet soldiers wuring WWII. All I want to tell, that there must be no dowble standarts.

-soviet warcrimes in 1944-45 are bad thing. "Damn red beasts!"

-allied warcrimes are... "What war crimes? We are civilisated western nations! We never did that!"

-German warcrimes? "We are just soldiers! We just did as ordered! We are not guilty!"

 

-snip-

 

 

Your post infers a double standard that you've already constructed on your own.

• Yes, Soviet war crimes are bad. I already said that. Attempting to construct excuses to justify this is called apologism. There are no excuses.
• Yes, Allied war crimes are bad. But you're trying to construct a straw man from something I never said. I don't excuse war crimes committed by the Allies, especially the "pardoning" of Japan. To construct excuses to justify any of this would be apologism. There are no excuses.
• Yes, German war crimes are bad. There are no excuses for what the Germans did. What the Germans did does not excuse the war crimes of others. That is a double standard.

I'm just saying...

 

"Anyway, totally OT/ban material but denialism, revisionism and apologism are absolute insults and injustices to the people who paid the ultimate cost at the hands of criminals from both sides and I will retort when I see them rear their disgusting, ugly heads around here."

Edited August 23, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[LLv24_Zami]

I don`t have time to debate, have to get some sleep before early wake for a work tomorrow. And I think it`s even pretty fruitless, when reading these posts, there are some things that we won`t probably ever agree with some of my well respected fellow forum users 

 

I`ll just say this, from a Finnish perspective, both nazis and communists were equally evil. With our history as a small nation in mind, communist Soviet Union have caused us much more misery and sorrow than any other nation. I`ve lost a lot of relatives in WW2 as did many. As you can see, it`s a matter of perspective, depends where from are you looking at things. But it`s distant history now, better look ahead. 

 

So, it would probably best to leave these things out of here and concentrate to our glorious simulator flying and argue FMs and all other important stuff   Peace!

Edited August 23, 2017 by Zami

[Aap]

Cybermat did not justify the war crimes or nazi regime, he just said that the bolshevik regime was equally bad. The regime that set up Gulag network, percecuted it's own citizens, caused famine within own country causing millions of deaths,planned and tried coups and revolutions in other countries (look up Comintern program), maďe a pact with Nazi Germany and co-initiated a war that turned out to be World War 2, divided Poland, annexed Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, attacked neutral Finland, showed little care about the lives of it's own soldiers or civilians during the war, set up the communist regime in occupied Eastern Europe etc. The regime was also spread to Asia, where millions and millions of Chinese died during Mao's reforms and people in North Korea can feel the effect of it still today. While these last things have maybe little to do with Soviet Union directly, these are the results of the communist regime that Cybermat mentioned.

[Cybermat47]

I never denied war crimes of soviet soldiers wuring WWII. All I want to tell, that there must be no dowble standarts.

-soviet warcrimes in 1944-45 are bad thing. "Damn red beasts!"

-allied warcrimes are... "What war crimes? We are civilisated western nations! We never did that!" And dead silence about Maroccinate, raping of french women by allied soldiers, massive looting in France and Low Countries, e.t.c.

-German warcrimes? "We are just soldiers! We just did as ordered! We are not guilty!" What did german, croatian, italian, hungarian (soviet soldiers never took them prisoners - all caught hungarians were shot emmidiatly for their "fame" among civillians), estinians, lithuanians, latvians, french, ukrainians, wallonians, romanian soldiers is now silensed. But not in countries, wich lost millions of civilians.

 

I have absolutely never denied German or Allied warcrimes.

 

And nowdays, when somebody tells me about "USSR was equal evil as Germany",

I never said that the USSR was as bad as Germany. I said that their repressive governments were as bad as each other.

[Cybermat47]

The thing is, a vast majority of people in the Soviet Union were behind the Communist party, particularly in what is modern-day Russia, Belorus, eastern Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Opposition was always present in smaller select regions, particularly in the Baltic states and western Ukraine (which is at the root of post-Soviet tensions in these regions). In saying the Communists were evil but the Soviet people weren't is like saying 90% of the Soviet people are evil but the Soviet people aren't, in your eyes. You can't distance both.

I doubt that these people who were "behind" the Communist party were fully aware of the callousness and brutality of the regime. Yeah, they would see people being sent to the gulags, but they'd be told "he's a traitor to the state", not "Stalin had a funny feeling about that one, also, would Beria be able to meet your daughter?"

 

Governments live and die on the support of the people, and the best way to get that support is to lie to them.

[707shap_Srbin]

Cybermat did not justify the war crimes or nazi regime, he just said that the bolshevik regime was equally bad. The regime that set up 1 Gulag network, percecuted it's own citizens, 2 caused famine within own country causing millions of deaths, 3 planned and tried coups and revolutions in other countries (look up Comintern program), 4 maďe a pact with Nazi Germany and co-initiated a war that turned out to be World War 2, 5 divided Poland, 6 annexed Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, 7 attacked neutral Finland, showed little care about the lives of it's own soldiers or civilians during the war, set up the communist regime in occupied Eastern Europe etc. 8. The regime was also spread to Asia, where millions and millions of Chinese died during Mao's reforms and people in North Korea can feel the effect of it still today. While these last things have maybe little to do with Soviet Union directly, these are the results of the communist regime that Cybermat mentioned.

 

Perfect, brilliant example of western dowble-standarts, ideological stamps and anglo-saxon politics.

Lets look on all of theese from outside the iron wall:

1. Do You mean, there were no prisons in the west? Guantanamo is a gallutination? I think also, that You are awary of, for example, Simon Webb's book "British Concentration Camps – A Brief History from 1900-1975", but for some reason keep silent about it.

 

2. In case You are smarter then Stalin, please find out a way to find a international cash to buy a needed machinery for building factoryes, for needed industrialisation, other then to sell grain (most valuable good in early 30th). Also, keep in mind very bad weather during two years in a row, very bad for crop. Also, I am sure You know something about Bengal famine of 1943, but in THIS case UK is not bad in Your eyes, isnt it?

 

3. Western democracyes never planned coups and revolutions? I am sure that You know that this would be a looooong list, with last example - Ukraine.

 

4. Yes, pact. Very geniuos move of Stalin. It was not an alliance, for a second. It was a non-agression pact. Keep in mind, that WWII was initiated by Western countries, who traited theyr ally - Czechoslowakia, and then Poland.

 

5. Returned annexed in 1921 parts of Belorussia and Ukraine. Saved belorussians and ukrainians (and many others - jews, poles, by the way) of annihilation by germans in 1939.

 

6. So, You suggest leave them alone, and let Germany occupy them, starting a war against USSR with Army Group "North" from Estonia, 100 km from Leningrad? Very smart.

 

7. Let me remember You something:

1918 - 1920 - first agression of Finnland into USSR. Tartu treaty. 

1921 - 1922 - second Finnish agression. 

1939 - 1940 - Winter war. Started after several provocations from finnish sides - several soviet border guards were shot dead during 30th, last provocation - Mainila shelling. Together with territory negotiations failed because of finnish position (backed by UK, France and Germany), it was a last drop for Stalin.

1941 - 1944 - Continuation War - started with finnish forses landing in demilitarised Aaland isles, and Luftwaffe operations from finnish airfields in very first day of Barbarossa - 22 june 1941. Sovets were able to stop finnish advance, but could not protect karelian civillians  from finnish concentration camps.

 

Tell me please more about Finnland, "poor victim of evil soviets".

 

8. "Democracy" is also spread over a half of the world, wich also not good on health of nations, suffering from it. Ask vietnams, afgans, iraquis, lybians... Continue Yourself.

 

I dont like communism very much (I am an Orthodox beliver, and I cannot agree with mass annihilation of russian church in USSR), but again: I am against dowble standarts. 

 

Matthew 7.2-29

2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 

3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? 

4 Or how can you say to your neighbor, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while the log is in your own eye? 

5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye. 

Edited August 23, 2017 by I./ZG1_Panzerbar

[Cybermat47]

Panzerbar, I disagree with you on some things, but I do agree that the Western governments have also committed crimes. I would say that every country on the planet has a government that has committed crimes.

[Aap]

1. Guantanamo, while could possibly question legality of some cases, it is for people that are considered dangerous enemies, not civilians from own country. At best could compare with prisoners of war that are kept for extended time. Wanna look up the survival rate of POW's from Stalingrad or Courland pocket in Soviet captivity?

2. Weather and stuff could play a role in the famine, but the primary cause were the actions forced by the regime. Look up Holodomor from wikipedia.

3. Show me an official program of some democratic nation that states the expansion of their regime like it was stated in Comintern program. Speaking of Ukraine, which western country is occupying a territory in Ukraine that officially belonged to Ukraine just a few years ago? (Not that it has anything to do with the topic of bolshevist regime)

4. Non-aggression pact ... with secret protocols of how Poland is divided between Germany and Soviet Union and how Soviet Union can take the Baltics and Finland, which it did and tried to do.

5. Soviet Union agreed in a pact with Germany that they will occupy part of Poland to save Poles? Katyn was the highlight of that?

6. Making a secret pact with Germany about annexing the Baltic states was to prevent the same Germany attacking from there? Not that Estonians, Latvians or Lithuanians should have anything to say about the fate of their countries?

7. So you are seriously still telling the dumbest possible excuse that the Soviet Union fabricated that actually small Finland started the war against Soviet Union? Like ... seriously??? Next time tell us how a mouse picked a fight with a cat.

8. So can you elaborate, how exactly is democracy bad for people or nations? Not that it has anything to do with what the bolshevik regime did, just interesting to see someone here that opposes democracy.

[Aap]

I am against dowble standarts.

 

If you are against double standards, why on Earth are you defending and justifying the wrongdoings the bolshevist regime, when these should be condemned like similar wrongdoings from nazi regime. The whole discussion started when Cybermat brought up that there should not be double standards there.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

If you are against double standards, why on Earth are you defending and justifying the wrongdoings the bolshevist regime, when these should be condemned like similar wrongdoings from nazi regime. The whole discussion started when Cybermat brought up that there should not be double standards there.

This precisely.

 

The crimes of one or many (which nobody here is defending or denying) do not excuse or justify, in any way, the crimes of another.

 

They all deserve condemnation.

[LLv24_Zami]

 

7. Let me remember You something:

1918 - 1920 - first agression of Finnland into USSR. Tartu treaty. 

1921 - 1922 - second Finnish agression. 

1939 - 1940 - Winter war. Started after several provocations from finnish sides - several soviet border guards were shot dead during 30th, last provocation - Mainila shelling. Together with territory negotiations failed because of finnish position (backed by UK, France and Germany), it was a last drop for Stalin.

1941 - 1944 - Continuation War - started with finnish forses landing in demilitarised Aaland isles, and Luftwaffe operations from finnish airfields in very first day of Barbarossa - 22 june 1941. Sovets were able to stop finnish advance, but could not protect karelian civillians  from finnish concentration camps.

 

Tell me please more about Finnland, "poor victim of evil soviets".

 

Your opinion about the winter war and causes for it (what caused the whole Finnish participation in WW2) can be described with one word: absurd. I know that there is program to change your schoolbooks etc these days twisting history to deny any Russian aggressions and show you as a victim in all the wars you fought. But I am really amazed, I would`ve thought that you Panzerbar had more realistic perspective of the world and history. 

 

As you like quote wikipedia here, here`s mainila shots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila . Nobody in their right mind would tell that nation with 3,5 million people would shoot artillery shells in the brink of war against an aggressive nation of 180 million people lead by insane dictator who is ready attack    You made a deal with Germans and attacked us unprovoked, period. There`s no way around, no matter how you try to twist history there in the Russia these days. With that logic, you are probably waiting us to attack Russia any moment now   Get you`r act together and do a serious realism check, that`s the only advice I can give you atm    

 

As for a war crimes, every side was responsible of them. For example, those camps are well known here, there`s no denial of truth on this side of the border. There was a serious shortage of food in Finland as was within those camps before the people were released. And third of the soviet POW`s died in Finnish custody.

I don`t even wan`t to start with the Soviet partisans actions in Finland for example, aren`t those crimes still denied in Russia 

 

I know we won`t probably never agree on these points above but that kind of history twisting just hurts my eyes. That`s why we should concentrate just for flying in these forums and leave this BS out of it, nothing good ever comes out of these things in my opinion. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Zami

[BubiHUN]

Although this "glorious" action itself sounds like a propaganda piece.

yeah for me too

[SYN_Haashashin]

Emmm, no politics or political discussions of any kind are allowed in this forum.

 

Back to topic please, or I will lock it.

 

Haash

[Holtzauge]

Reading this thread has been a huge eye opener for me. The parachute killing story was interesting as such but the real takeaway from this historical anecdote has been the discussion it sparked and how it was interpreted even with the benefit of more than 70 years hindsight: Never expected to see some people post what they did here. Sadly it seems there is still a huge need to come to terms with your history in some quarters.

 

In that vein as a Swede, I want to set the historic record straight and say that we, as a gentle Nordic farming and trading society never embarked on any rapes and pillages in England. Sadly, there are however some English history books that portray our peace loving ancestors as some sort of bloodthirsty savages which is of course totally false and blatant Anglo-Saxon propaganda.

[ZachariasX]

...[snip]...

In that vein as a Swede, I want to set the historic record straight and say that we, as a gentle Nordic farming and trading society never embarked on any rapes and pillages in England. Sadly, there are however some English history books that portray our peace loving ancestors as some sort of bloodthirsty savages which is of course totally false and blatant Anglo-Saxon propaganda.

As vain and war mongering Swiss, I'm sorry to say with us it is the other way around.

 

For hunderts of years we burned down everything in continental Europe and other nations history books say we lived in peace since, like almost ever. There is one minor subtlety though, our mercenaries did so on other nations payrols. Maybe that helped for looking "not that bad". But proof that it really was that bad was in 1515, we set an all time low score by losing against each other. Now, one would hope that at least this would qualify for a serious stain on a nations reputation. Plus losing a battle doesn't imply absence of rape and pillage. But guess what happend? Losing against each other was deemed as a draw because of imminent "neutrality". No stain there. We then thoroughly practised "being neutral" for the next 300 years by keeping the constant raping and pillaging within our borders. Another era of peace in everyones perception. One really can't say we didn't try hard to be villains.

 

[DD_Arthur]

In that vein as a Swede, I want to set the historic record straight and say that we, as a gentle Nordic farming and trading society never embarked on any rapes and pillages in England. Sadly, there are however some English history books that portray our peace loving ancestors as some sort of bloodthirsty savages which is of course totally false and blatant Anglo-Saxon propaganda.

 

As a Brit I can say with confidence that we forgive you for the Vikings, Charles XII and eating fermented fish  .   

 

However, Sweden still has to answer for it's major crime against humanity during the twentieth century;

 

 

[Holtzauge]

Wot? You don’t like Surströmming? Prefer something western and decadent like fish n chips do we?
 

https://youtu.be/X9htB2hDAgM?t=78

 

And about ABBA: Well that was a very successful Swedish psy-ops: It weaned millions of misguided western youths from capitalist bourgeois music like Pink Floyd, Elton John and David Bowie.

[707shap_Srbin]

Nobody on the russian far north is scared with fermented fish, as they eat fermented meat, wich is a naturally a several-month old dead flesh.

 

For Sweden, I must say thank You for this brilliant music:

[Holtzauge]

Glad you liked it Panzerbar.  Must say I liked this Russian song you posted earlier. Russian really lends itself to well to music.

 

Here is some slow jazz by Jan Johansson, "Visa från Utanmyra" based on old Swedish folk music. Peace brother and hope you like it. Nice thing with music: It brings people together, no borders needed.

[707shap_Srbin]

Must say I liked this Russian song you posted earlier.

It is not russian, but it is serbian song. Tamo daleko. But we understand it very good, as our cultures are very close and we are a brothers with serbs for ever.

Edited August 29, 2017 by I./ZG1_Panzerbar

[Holtzauge]

Well Swedish and Finnish culture is also closely linked so I count them as my brothers for ever so how about concentrating on the music instead?

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

how about concentrating on the music instead

Good idea