will the new career mode kill scripted campaigns?

[NETSCAPE]

I have little fly time in RoF, but I am familiar with it's Career mode features. Part of me is wondering if my scripted campaign endeavors will be in vain once the new il2 career mode is released with BoK. Do you think that the new career mode will make the scripted campaigns die out? What are your thoughts? 

 

It sure will be nice to use the new career mode for weather data reference on a per-day basis though, that's for sure! 

 

I'm on mission 15 of 19 for my Stuka campaign...  After it's done I plan on making some more historical content, KG55 &  ZG26 for example. And I'd like to make some non or semi historical content for faster paced action that I know the average player wants, so it can have the possibility of becoming official. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by NETSCAPE

[Gambit21]

No generator will ever come close to a good hand crafted campaign - that's just how it is.

I'm talking mission quality.

 

The advantage of the career is newspapers, pilots names etc. Which are nice and help immersion.

From a mission standpoint however hand crafted always wins.

They will compliment each other nicely

[Juri_JS]

I guess the new career system will use the same mission generator we now have in campaign mode, so I doubt we will see much improvement of mission quality in the new mode. But having the ability to earn medals and advance in rank will certainly be an incentive for many people to play the new career mode, especially when ranks and medals won't be added to scripted campaign mode too.

[J2_Trupobaw]

They are completely different animals. RoF had both scripted campaigns and career mode, btw.

[NETSCAPE]

No generator will ever come close to a good hand crafted campaign - that's just how it is.

I'm talking mission quality.

 

The advantage of the career is newspapers, pilots names etc. Which are nice and help immersion.

From a mission standpoint however hand crafted always wins.

They will compliment each other nicely

 This is what I was thinking...

 

They are completely different animals. RoF had both scripted campaigns and career mode, btw.

Ah good point, I have yet to try any scripted campaigns for RoF. One of these days I'll get in the mood!

[dburne]

I love Scripted Campaign and will continue to fly them along with the new Career system as well.

[Psyrion]

As Gambit21 already said, random missions can´t compare to handmade ones.

 

I´ll fly both 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Echoing everyone else, they're not direct competitors. 1946 had a rudimentary but fun dynamic campaign, and it worked well, but it coexisted happily with the scripted campaign mode.

[Danziger]

I myself would love more control in the QMB like 1946. Being able to select skins and armament for each plane in each flight was nice.

[pilotpierre]

I will continue to support both.

Edited August 3, 2017 by pilotpierre

[ShamrockOneFive]

I've been playing a fair bit of the Scripted Campaigns lately and they are superb. The work done in handcrafting the experience pays off for the player in a big way.

 

The new generator is going to be a huge update but I know its based on the Rise of Flight model which means that its going to be good and I suspect the missions themselves to be of a higher quality than the currently available generator but they will still have that randomly generated element to them. IMHO, the missions we get out of the campaign mode right now are better by a lot than at launch of BoS. BoM introduced some changes under the hood (although nothing was said I certainly noticed) and its quite a bit better - but still lacks that hand crafted touch.

 

I don't think hand crafted campaigns have anything to fear. Especially if they have interesting missions and are well put together experiences with Black Six's campaigns as a fairly high but achievable bar to reach.

[Feathered_IV]

I require both to properly enjoy the game.

[busdriver]

I'm on mission 15 of 19 for my Stuka campaign...  After it's done I plan on making some more historical content, KG55 &  ZG26 for example. And I'd like to make some non or semi historical content for faster paced action that I know the average player wants, so it can have the possibility of becoming official. 

 

I am more than happy to grovel or bribe   you to craft a Bf-110 campaign.  Not flowers, chocolates or diamonds (unless you're Sarah Rafferty or Rose Leslie), more like PayPal or Amazon. PM me if you can be bought. 

[TXSailor_1]

I am more than happy to grovel or bribe   you to craft a Bf-110 campaign.  Not flowers, chocolates or diamonds (unless you're Sarah Rafferty or Rose Leslie), more like PayPal or Amazon. PM me if you can be bought. 

 

THIS I think, is the key lol. The love of specific airframes and wanting more attention will always help fuel scripted campaigns.

 

And I know, I for one, really miss the "storytelling" aspect of a proper scripted campaign right now, and I don't foresee that changing greatly.

[Cybermat47]

Career modes like the RoF one and PWCG are great career experiences, but good hand-crafted missions will always be better.

 

Looking forward to your Stuka campaign mate

[LLv24_Zami]

No need to worry about that. Both are needed and used by the SP community, I'm sure

I guess the new career system will use the same mission generator we now have in campaign mode, so I doubt we will see much improvement of mission quality in the new mode. But having the ability to earn medals and advance in rank will certainly be an incentive for many people to play the new career mode, especially when ranks and medals won't be added to scripted campaign mode too.

I think it will be improved as any other thing in this sim. But it takes nothing away from the nice scripted campaigns

[Guest deleted@1562]

Supplement scripted campaigns with nice skins, custom radio chatter, short movies and they will always stand out from dynamic campaigns. One of the very best I played was "Aufstand der Ehre" ("Rebirth Of Honor") by pluswave.

[hames123]

They are completely different things. However, I hope that this career has more things going on along the front, such as tank battles, artillery duels, flights of ground attack planes on both sides attacking stuff, scrambles where the enemy attacks your airfield and you have to race into the air etc. The ROF career was nice, but felt very predictable and dead.

[Yogiflight]

Nothing is as predictable as the current campaign missions, always four enemy fighters waiting at the action point.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Unfortunately new campaign won't be true dynamic campaign. For example if you destroy bridge in the morning in next sortie at midday it would be there again. Destroyed units will not affect anything but yours stats... Etc

But the new approach would be significantly better than today's cut out campaign.

[Herne]

It would be really cool if the steam workshop functionality was integrated for BoX. Would be so much easier to browse for player made content, download and install it.

 

I've only played the commercial scripted campaigns, finished the first one and about 5 missions into blazing steppes. The thing that sets the scripted campaigns apart is the story, which I have enjoyed reading through for both campaigns. 

I am very much looking forward to the career mode though. Would love to see an iron man mode, where you play through the war, with many different pilots (depending on how much of an ace you are)   but evidence of your previous pilot and other fallen comrades remains with the squadron, in the form of a photo on some wall or leaderboard if they had such a thing in ww2

[Jade_Monkey]

I can't say that the thought hasn't crossed my mind. I am very excited for the new career mode with the new functionality mentioned on the last DD.

 

I do believe that both will coexist in harmony, as they deliver different experiences. I guess the scripted campaigns will be more narrative driven while the campaign will be more generic but more versatile across theatres and planesets.

 

I wonder if scripted campaign makers will be able to integrate any of these features (managing squads and airfields), of they will remain as proprietary.

[sinned]

Unfortunately new campaign won't be true dynamic campaign. For example if you destroy bridge in the morning in next sortie at midday it would be there again. Destroyed units will not affect anything but yours stats... Etc

But the new approach would be significantly better than today's cut out campaign.

Neither is scripted campaign unless it is done by a blunt force. I.e. mission 1objective is to destroy the bridge so next mission 2 just starts with a destroyed bridge. Already coded and scripted.

 

There are no strategic elements offered.

 

This is why I think random expert or coconuts mp server layout (your action affects front lines) should be developed as premium dynamic campaign instead of straight line same mission over and over.

 

A destroyed airfield means nothing but a number in your stats. Next flight flown on the same day, a brand new field awaits.

[sinned]

I will prolly buy stuka campaign but a real deal would be a campaign that a user can deploy stategic flights to change the course of theatre (like microprose 1942 carrier campaign).

[ICDP]

IMHO, No, because what is already dead cannot be killed.  I cannot abide scripted missions, nothing worse than having to do exactly what the mission designers wants me to do, without any meaningful deviation.

• Get shot down before you attain the target = refly mission
• Fly off in a random direction = empty world

A good dynamic campaign eliminates all of these issue.  You fly missions you may or may not complete but the war goes on.

Unfortunately new campaign won't be true dynamic campaign. For example if you destroy bridge in the morning in next sortie at midday it would be there again. Destroyed units will not affect anything but yours stats... Etc
But the new approach would be significantly better than today's cut out campaign.

 

This is ultimately what made me stop playing the career in RoF.  I believe a good campaign mode requires a persistent world.  It has been done before so it's not an unattainable dream.

Edited August 3, 2017 by ICDP

[Gambit21]

IMHO, No, because what is already dead cannot be killed.  I cannot abide scripted missions, nothing worse than having to do exactly what the mission designers wants me to do, without any meaningful deviation.

 

Well you have the QMB for random, aimless, purposeless flying around that has nothing to do with your assigned mission.

If for some reason you do decide to disregard your mission objectives, it's quite easy in this editor to place other units on a trigger that you'll encounter if you decide to "meaningfully deviate" from your mission.

 

You like or dislike what you want, I'm not here to change your mind.

Your reason however doesn't hold water from where I sit knowing the editor.

 

For my Kuban missions there will be random flights around the map that you'll trigger no matter where you fly, but the area of concern for your actual mission will get the most attention.

[sinned]

", it's quite easy in this editor to place other units on a trigger that you'll encounter if you decide to "meaningfully deviate" from your mission. :)"

 

This, is an empty world.

[Gambit21]

...and yet it's not.

[sinned]

I am a big fan of you gambit, but sometimes i wish you put more weight to players perspective. Not makers.

 

At the end of day, players are selfish consumers.

[THERION]

Hi all,

 

I do prefer scripted campaigns as they're often more detailed and so I will definitely buy those scripted campaigns.

The two already published ones are very good indeed - but there are also free campaigns very well done.

 

Nothing against those mission generators, but it happens often they generate repetitive mission types (as perhaps

in real life).

 

Cheers

[sinned]

For makers, it may be, but for players, it is empty...

 

I love to disagree to this as i can only fathom the hardwork and pricess effort by talented community to create sp campaigns, but without genuine continuation of flight result to the next, it just becomes a nothing but a series of quick missions only with a story line.

[TXSailor_1]

IMHO, No, because what is already dead cannot be killed.  I cannot abide scripted missions, nothing worse than having to do exactly what the mission designers wants me to do, without any meaningful deviation.

• Get shot down before you attain the target = refly mission
• Fly off in a random direction = empty world

A good dynamic campaign eliminates all of these issue.  You fly missions you may or may not complete but the war goes on.

 

This is ultimately what made me stop playing the career in RoF.  I believe a good campaign mode requires a persistent world.  It has been done before so it's not an unattainable dream.

 

You haven't done much actual military flying (or flying in general) have you?

 

Deviating from the flight plan does NOT have happy endings. Particularly in a combined arms situation where everyone involved is expecting a certain unit from a certain direction and altitude at a certain time... In the real world, failure to stick to the plan has had catastrophic consequences. The ground forces moved a little early and managed to overwhelm the target area before air support showed up? Well, looks like the attackers are gonna bomb some friends today (And before you call BS, this was a legitimate problem on the Eastern Front). You decided that approaching from 055 was too predictable, so you came in from 330 instead? Well, that 16 year old AA gunner who has only been on the front for two days just sees dots coming from NOT the direction friends are, so he opens up on you...

 

You wanna fly anywhere, anytime, just because you feel like it? FSX might be more your speed.

 

Now, I DO agree, that a good dynamic campaign will have the war keep going even if you failed the mission with consequences. That would be a lot of fun, but the issue there is, how do you code for that? Because now, we're completely off book, and Russia might lose the war, certain aircraft and upgrades are no longer available... there become a LOT of variables to plan for.

Edited August 3, 2017 by TXSailor

[Gambit21]

I am a big fan of you gambit, but sometimes i wish you put more weight to players perspective. Not makers.

 

At the end of day, players are selfish consumers.

I'm both player and creator - that's one reason why I'm able to do what I do.

 

Really, it's just this - we have the world that we have and it's what you make of it both as a mission designer and as a player. It's on both parties.

 

I could lament that I can't find a populated bistro if I land in the middle of a town - or I can immerse myself in the mission and forget looking for the bistro. Yes I know that's a silly exaggeration but it speaks to my point.

It's what we make of it, it's never going to be just like the real world.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Gambit21

[sinned]

Txsailor, creaters of random expert and coconut mp servers will simply deny your claims.

 

Current offered sp has no consequences of deviating from pre flight plans.

 

Its just restart.

[TXSailor_1]

Txsailor, creaters of random expert and coconut mp servers will simply deny your claims.

 

Current offered sp has no consequences of deviating from pre flight plans.

 

Its just restart.

 

Those MP fronts are painfully simplistic compared to what we're asking of an SP campaign. An SP campaign that sees a frontline moved 20 miles because 10 tanks, 1 train, and 8 artillery positions were destroyed is bit laughable. If you want a proper scaled campaign, truly dynamic, each bridge you blow up means that the entire rest of the campaign now changes, because the computer must reroute the attacking force to another crossing. What if there are no other crossings? I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE, but it's a LOT to expect for something of this scale. 

 

As for the deviating of flight plans, you're right, deviating has no punishment. It should. Leave the flight plan, get shot for cowardice. Then you can't complain about there not being enough to see off of the main route anyway.

[sinned]

If those mp front line logics are laughable, i have run out of words to describe current sp campaign logics.

 

Just a restart after restart because in real life, you get shot is a poor excuse line to justify another "restart".

 

This type of reasoning is so damn toxic. No wonder currently offered sp campaigns are just series of quick missions.

In addition what you assume A LOT to expect was achieved in 1994 and 1998.

 

I trust this community and 1CGS has talent to supercede the legacy that is based on more than 20 years ago technology.

 

Maybe you dont have the faith or trust. I do.

[TXSailor_1]

If those mp front line logics are laughable, i have run out of words to describe current sp campaign logics.

 

Just a restart after restart because in real life, you get shot is a poor excuse line to justify another "restart".

 

This type of reasoning is so damn toxic. No wonder currently offered sp campaigns are just series of quick missions.

In addition what you assume A LOT to expect was achieved in 1994 and 1998.

 

I trust this community and 1CGS has talent to supercede the legacy that is based on more than 20 years ago technology.

 

Maybe you dont have the faith or trust. I do.

 

I have realistic expectations. 

[sinned]

You need to review your standards.

Because you argue random and coconut dynamic campaign logics are laughable. They are not.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I don't expect to see a persistent campaign. Personally, I don't know if BOX is capable of tracking so many one-off instances persistently given some of the optimization issues that are already present.

 

I don't expect much is going to change from the current campaign generation system. The team never really stated they were rewriting the entire mission generator. Maybe I'm wrong but the resources for doing so probably aren't there.

 

I fully expect that they will apply the stat/rank/squad changes that they've already stated they will do. This will move us closer to a PWCG or ROF style campaign system with pilot/squad progression.

You need to review your standards.
Because you argue random and coconut dynamic campaign logics are laughable. They are not.

 

They're not laughable at all.

 

They're what somebody with reasonable expectations would expect.

 

Realistically, if the system is changing at all we'll probably see something closer to what the TAW guys, Coconut, etc. achieve through server scripts.

[SYN_Haashashin]

gambit, but sometimes i wish you put more weight to players perspective. Not makers.

 

At the end of day, players are selfish consumers.

I agree with Gambit answer to this. Im a maker?? (prefer the term mission builder) maybe but before I was a player and still been one.

 

No wonder currently offered sp campaigns are just series of quick missions.

I really dont know what you mean by this. have you played Blacksix or even mines?? Sorry I cant speak about Gambit work, since I havent have the time to play it, but a story line/real history is in place and all that so I wont call them: "just a series of quick missions."

 

Current offered sp has no consequences of deviating from pre flight plans.

Well if you deviate from pre-flight plans you can get a nasty surprise and not getting back means no new mission...thats a consequence. Restart?? yeah, the same you do in MP when killed.

 

And most important of all...MP and SP shouldnt be compared. 2 differents beasts when we speak about building missions, believe me, has done plenty of both last 7 years.

 

About the OP worries, I dont think we need to worry to much about this.

 

Haash