Anyone else using mouslook or some alternative to head tracking?

[TheJay13]

Mostly just curious, I sometimes feel like I am the only person not using head tracking. 

[Finkeren]

I have TrackIR now and haven't looked back since I got it, but I flew the first 2.5 years in BoS and some 20 years of flight sims before that using my hat switch to look around. With the right pan speed and sensitivity it worked just fine.

 

Still, for pure effectiveness, nothing compares to headtracking. Not even VR.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Finkeren

[HandyNasty]

A buddy of mine has his left hand on his joystick and looks around with his mouse in his right hand (being right-handed). He's been doing this since il2 sturmovik forgotten battles (2003? 2004?). His SA is really goodI have never seen someone do scissors like him. Just need a lot of practice and a little masochistic side

[Haza]

I'm left handed!

I use 3D Pro with right hand and mouse with left hand to look around.  To actually move head position, I use insert, home, delete etc keys!!

I might get VR when it has matured a bit more.

 

Regards

[Feathered_IV]

I'm using trackir now, but used mouse-look for many, many years with satisfaction. I'd use the stick in my right hand, positioned beneath the table. Then use the mouse with my left hand. I'm not very coordinated with my left, so it took some getting used to. Each time I got comfortable I'd increase the mouse speed slightly. After a while my hand would move in synch with my eyes to the extent that I wouldn't even think of it anymore. Come to think of it, I have my mouse positioned to the left to this day...

[Kyco]

I used FaceTrackNoir for a while before I got Trackir and VR. It's free software and uses your webcam to track your face. It's a good alternative to Trackir aslong as you have a decent webcam. Trackir is much better but it does show you the advantages of using headtracking for free.

[Bilbosmeggins]

I have TrackIR now and haven't looked back since I got it, but I flew the first 2.5 years in BoS and some 20 years of flight sims before that using my hat switch to look around. With the right pan speed and sensitivity it worked just fine.

 

Still, for pure effectiveness, nothing compares to headtracking. Not even VR.

 

 

 

I would dispute that headtracking is a better alternative to VR.  Like most simmers I've owned more than one version of Trackir, so I am more than aware of it's capabilities.  And it did a great job in it's day.  I would have given up flight simming many years ago if it had not been invented.  However, VR takes it to a whole new level.  The experience becomes completely immersive, and totally believable, rather than just highly functional.  The only advantages that headtracking offers over VR are simplicity, and lesser rig requirements.  Oh, and the ability to swivel around like an owl on a turntable.  But, personally, although that might make the game easier, I prefer the realistic, physical restraints that VR places upon you.  You can only see as far as your neck, head and eyes will allow.  Just as it should be.  And I, personally, love that.

[Boaty-McBoatface]

There are some really good pilots using mouse or hat switch to look around. Tipskin uses mouse, so does Haza and Chubby Bunting, and there are lots more I know. Im just using hat-switch myself, but its not working out so well I know. I need to give the mouse in the left hand a try.

Edited August 1, 2017 by temujin

[Finkeren]

I would dispute that headtracking is a better alternative to VR. Like most simmers I've owned more than one version of Trackir, so I am more than aware of it's capabilities. And it did a great job in it's day. I would have given up flight simming many years ago if it had not been invented. However, VR takes it to a whole new level. The experience becomes completely immersive, and totally believable, rather than just highly functional. The only advantages that headtracking offers over VR are simplicity, and lesser rig requirements. Oh, and the ability to swivel around like an owl on a turntable. But, personally, although that might make the game easier, I prefer the realistic, physical restraints that VR places upon you. You can only see as far as your neck, head and eyes will allow. Just as it should be. And I, personally, love that.

I agree, and that is exactly what I meant.

 

VR undoubtedly offers more immersion, but there is no denying, that headtracking is more effective: Smaller gear, better FoV with smaller head movement and the possibility to use higher resolution screens.

 

I'm not saying one is better than the other, it's a matter of personal preference.

 

I personally prefer headtracking. No amount of immersion can make me enjoy having to turn my neck 180 degrees to look behind me.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

heres an EDtracker review its pretty cheap and it works

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I use the hat switch, so far I haven't had trouble. It's all about anticipating where do you need to look during what manoeuvres, and reading the enemy's intentions during combat.

[JaffaCake]

Long time ago before I went to trackIR I would use mouse in the left hand (being mostly right handed, but more likely ambidextrous) and the HAT switch on the JS for head translation. Worked extremely well and soemtimes I miss the precision of the mouse. TrackIR also tends to give me stiff neck.

Edited August 1, 2017 by JaffaCake

[szelljr]

I'm left handed!

I use 3D Pro with right hand and mouse with left hand to look around.  To actually move head position, I use insert, home, delete etc keys!!

I might get VR when it has matured a bit more.

 

Regards

Same here!! 3DPro + mouse to look around + I am left handed ,lol....

[Herne]

I have TrackIR now and haven't looked back since I got it, but I flew the first 2.5 years in BoS and some 20 years of flight sims before that using my hat switch to look around. With the right pan speed and sensitivity it worked just fine.

 

Still, for pure effectiveness, nothing compares to headtracking. Not even VR.

 

But VR is one to one headtracking. As far as head tracking goes, it just doesn't get any better than that ?

[Finkeren]

But VR is one to one headtracking. As far as head tracking goes, it just doesn't get any better than that ?

Quite the opposite. 1 to 1 tracking is a major PITA.

 

I have my TrackIR set on a curve where I need to move my head no more than 15 degrees to the sides to look back 180. I can keep my eyes fixed on the screen and don't need to twist my neck. Clearly superior to 1:1 tracking.

[Potenz]

I used to use hat stick, till 2007 or 8 when i decided to build my first freetrack setup (track was way too expensive in Arg) and never could go back to hat stick, plus trough the year i got quadrant and pedals so the need for headtracking become essential cause i simply couldn't reach the mouse anymore and use the hat for other controls, 2 years ago i could buy a track ir 4 and it's the way to go, hope one day i can get my hands on a VR setup

[Herne]

Quite the opposite. 1 to 1 tracking is a major PITA.

 

I have my TrackIR set on a curve where I need to move my head no more than 15 degrees to the sides to look back 180. I can keep my eyes fixed on the screen and don't need to twist my neck. Clearly superior to 1:1 tracking.

 

Ah Ok. I must admit that in VR It's hard work to check six, I tend to do a little bit of a course deviation to either side when I do this, which may not be such a bad thing. Could make a potential attacker wonder if you are turning because you have spotted him 

[Semor76]

Left hander for life here too... Thrustmaster T16000 & mouse look is my way to fly. I would never play a flight sim (civil/combat) without mouse look. no need for Track IR,freetrack or stuff like this.

[Boaty-McBoatface]

Long time ago before I went to trackIR I would use mouse in the left hand (being mostly right handed, but more likely ambidextrous) and the HAT switch on the JS for head translation. Worked extremely well and soemtimes I miss the precision of the mouse. TrackIR also tends to give me stiff neck.

How do you guys do the throttle with both hands constantly taken? Do you just not adjust it that often? I find I'm always changing the throttle.

[Cybermat47]

I use a mouse. In fact, the only flight sim gear I own is my joystick, and it's a pretty old one.

[Psyrion]

I have a T16000m and use my mouse to look around with the left hand (I´m right handed). For moving my head I use Mouse button 4&5 and the hatstick. Haven´t had any problems with this setup except having to get used to it.

 

How do you guys do the throttle with both hands constantly taken? Do you just not adjust it that often? I find I'm always changing the throttle.

I bound leftalt+mouse wheel as my throttle and bound left alt to a button on my mouse so I can use the mouse wheel as my throttle and my zoom. 

 

[MAGNUM_PT]

I learned to use the mouse on my left hand (I'm right handed) and after a couple of weeks it feels quite natural. It's just like if your hand was an extension of your eyes. And then use the hat switch for panning. Plus, that mouse wheel is a multi-purpose tool!

 

Wheel = Zoom

LMouse + Wheel = Throttle

RMouse + Wheel = Mixture

M4 + Wheel = Water radiator

M5 + Wheel = Oil radiator

Edited August 1, 2017 by MAGNUM_PT

[Semor76]

How do you guys do the throttle with both hands constantly taken? Do you just not adjust it that often? I find I'm always changing the throttle.

I can show my setup. As always,its a matter of personal opinions how to use Joystick & mouse at the same time.

 

Mouse button left: lean left in cockpit

 

Mousebutton right:lean right in cockpit

 

Middle mouse button. lean forward

 

joy 3 : reset view to middle

 

joy 4: open throttle

 

joy 2 close throttle

 

joy 13/14:release Bombs/Rockets

 

joy 12/15 ripple Bombs/Rockets

 

Hat up: increase prop pitch

 

Hat down: decrease prop pitch

 

Hat left: rich mixture

 

Hat right: lean mixture

 

Everything else like Flaps,gear, engine management,radio comms,etc is on the Keyboard and is always the same on every WWII flight sim that I have.(DCS & BMS is onother story...) I dont use Zoom options. Because real life Pilots in WWII didnt have this too. Its all about getting "real" as possible in this Sim.

 

Since nearly every lever and knob in Il-2 BOx is animated and full function,I fly on/offline by the techno chat and real life books and without HUD and Icons or GPS at all. It works very well and gives a far better feeling of immersion in this game.

 

 

For me,Mouse look is a good and cheap alternative option to Track IR & co.and with the time it becomes very intuitive and a second nature in the cockpit. btw,as a Graffiti Artist for over 20 Years,I dont like cameras at all.Not in the public and not on top of my monitor

Edited August 1, 2017 by Semor76

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

I use headtracking.  For a while I used a hatswitch to look around.....personally I found it cumbersome even after using it for ~1 year. Headtracking is a luxury and very nice to have but definitely not necessary.

[Gambit21]

Is used the hat switch with great success in the old IL2.

I only purchased Track IR when I got Rise of Flight since the changes of direction with those WWI crates just happened too fast for me to track with the hat switch.

 

Now I still use Track IR for BoS, and wouldn't choose to go back to the hat switch - but I could without missing a beat.

Hat switch is easy with WWII - WWI not so much.

[sergio_]

Nowadays, those who don't have a traking device is because they don't want to.

 

Now, as I'm glad to see, it's a fact that some players don't want to have one, and of course I respect that 120%.

 

For those who would like to try, I have a solution that:

- Costs less than 10 bucks

- You don't need to do any soldering (is this the right word?)

- It takes maybe 15 minutes to assemble

 

My personal discovery was an article from IKEA (I don't work for IKEA nor am I related to them in any way). It's a cord with 12 leds in it, powered by two AA batteries that last months with a 2 or 3 daily hour usage. You can keep the first 3 leds and simply cut the rest. The 3 remaining leds will work as if nothing happened.

You cover them with something to disperse light.

Finally, you attach them to something that may resemble the Trak-ir clip. For my first version I used the ruler you see in the picture. Yes, I have improved it overtime, but just because I felt like it. The model I show worked like charm.

 

Pics, or it didn't happen.

 

This is the LED thing, the price and where to cut the wire:

https://gyazo.com/d9e8c5cd5f215fd0d773e30aa2daf819

 

This is the assembled product.

https://gyazo.com/c2cae504b3dffa8f44bdcead86b21a9a

 

You are done. I use FaceTrackNoIR with it.

 

I won't say it is the same as a genuine Track-IR. But it works waaaaay good enough for me. 

Hope it is any useful for anyone.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Sergi0

[JG27*Kornezov]

Sergi0 you are a genious. Very interesting implementation.

I also use the mouse for looking arround, and i use the joystick hat buttons to lean left and right forward and backward. I am left handed and I use the mouse in my right hand. Actually it is good not to have an ordinary mouse but gaming mouse with a lot of additional buttons and that is ergonomic in the hand. So I have different buttons on the mouse, trottle, trim, zoom view, push to talk etc.

The idea of  MAGNUM_PT is very interesting indeed.

 

I tried Freetrack but I got dizzy very quickly and I got terible nausea and pain in the neck. So I just forgot about it and at the moment it was stopping working at the wrong moments during intense dogfight.

 

The problem for the left handed is that all hotas systems and advanced joysticks are for right handed. So they just do not work for me.

I am thinking probably to try again some trackir solution and to use a second joystick with a lot of buttons in order to replace the hotas. Not very pretty but should work.

Here I use the mouse as usual for loocking arround in scissors.

  Edited August 1, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[Boaty-McBoatface]

So you guys are all using throttle on the mouse wheel? I need to get a new mouse it seems. I seem to be adjusting throttle all the time and this is the main reason I haven't given the one hand joystick one hand mouse technique a good try.

[Feathered_IV]

So you guys are all using throttle on the mouse wheel? I need to get a new mouse it seems. I seem to be adjusting throttle all the time and this is the main reason I haven't given the one hand joystick one hand mouse technique a good try.

 

I always use the mousewheel for throttle.  I find it gives me a more precise power input, and puts my hand at a semi realistic position.  The lack of mousewheel support is one of the reasons I never really took to CloD.

 

I also invested in a mouse with a few extra buttons so I rarely need to fumble for the keyboard when things get hectic.

[Sokol1]

... flying bombers the hat switch is enough.But recently I tried out to fly Ju 88 only with hat switch and could not manage to read the rpm and Ata-gauges because they are hidden behind that machine gun.Is there a trick?

 

Try the snap-views to cockpit instruments - by default is key: " , De"l + keypad numbers keys (e.g. Del + #7) - this give you a momentary zoomed view for hidden places/instruments.

[GrendelsDad]

Quite the opposite. 1 to 1 tracking is a major PITA.

 

I have my TrackIR set on a curve where I need to move my head no more than 15 degrees to the sides to look back 180. I can keep my eyes fixed on the screen and don't need to twist my neck. Clearly superior to 1:1 tracking.

I think you are correct until you factor in deflection shooting especially from distance VR and 1 to 1 tracking become as valuable of an improvement as trackir was to us hat switchers. Just my experience that my gunnery and bombing accuracy have drastically increased in VR Edited August 5, 2017 by GrendelsDad

[dburne]

I think you are correct until you factor in deflection shooting especially from distance VR and 1 to 1 tracking become as valuable of an improvement as trackir was to us hat switchers. Just my experience that my gunnery and bombing accuracy have drastically increased in VR

 

Agreed, my gunnery is way much better now that I am flying in VR.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Yeah im a caveman.

Left Hand Stick - Right Hand Mouse.
(tho video below is good example as much much harder to kill a spitfire like this than in a 109 or 190)

  Edited August 5, 2017 by =TBAS=Sshadow14