do we need autobalancing?

[CUJO_1970]

What I find amazing is that I play German on a server that is auto-balanced. A U T O  B A L A N C E D...and yet I see VVS pilots here that fly on the same A U T O  B A L A N C E D server, and they are still not happy and complaining about too many Germans.

 

I joined the server early this morning - 4 reds flying on the same side (so much for evening teams) and no Blue...shot down the first red and he typed something in chat and rage quit. Next guy in a Spitfire was so upset that I had altitude and energy advantage that he called me a "coward" ...and then the map ended.

 

lol

[Lusekofte]

I did not know there where any auto balanced servers, is there more experience to be shared from it, whiners will always be present, and no solution will satisfy all

[CUJO_1970]

I did not know there where any auto balanced servers, is there more experience to be shared from it, whiners will always be present, and no solution will satisfy all

 

Yes, DED Normal is auto balanced. It's not a cure-all unfortunately.

 

On autobalanced servers you still have a couple issues:

 

1. If sides are even at the beginning of a map, 16 vs 16 for example - if 8 red flyers leave the map then they are outnumbered again 16-8, so it's not a perfect solution. It is unreasonable to expect players to switch sides in the middle of a mission.

2. If there are only 4-5 players on one side during a map, then only 8-10 max players are going to be able to join the server due to autobalancing.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

I think I'm now more frustrated that people can't understand the issue,

 

-snip-

 

I don't agree with you at all but I feel the exact same way. 

[54th_Glitter_]

What I find amazing is that I play German on a server that is auto-balanced. A U T O  B A L A N C E D...and yet I see VVS pilots here that fly on the same A U T O  B A L A N C E D server, and they are still not happy and complaining about too many Germans.

 

I joined the server early this morning - 4 reds flying on the same side (so much for evening teams) and no Blue...shot down the first red and he typed something in chat and rage quit. Next guy in a Spitfire was so upset that I had altitude and energy advantage that he called me a "coward" ...and then the map ended.

 

lol

 

Hi Cujo!, as you know i fly the same auotbalanced server you fly, maybe you refer to me. Obviously you had not read a single complain about an autobalanced server from me, and as far as i remember from no one in the whole thread. It would make no sense. I dont know how you came to that conclusion and make a generalization of it. I think is clear the discuss is about not autobalanced server where this problem exist and is bigger.

 

With respect to the second point, there is always people like that, i´m sure that in both sides. They just need timefly and understanding of the planes to change the "coward " for a "salute" to the better pilot. i´m sure even you thought something like that in your begginings when been shootdown   ...i did it some rare and unique time  

 

As sidenote i dont believe in autobalace as the best solution, i would prefer to find some kind of incentives (new planes, skins, modifications,...idk) to encourage pilots to fly the outnumbered side, and create a culture of balance by changing sides at their own free.

[CUJO_1970]

 

I remember when I was a kid, we used to play ice hockey on the frozen lake each winter.We were bunch of friends,but there were always some other kids we didnt know, who wanted to join us. All of us put our hockey sticks on one pile.One boy,with his eyes covered by scarf,stepped over the pile and randomly picked sticks throwing them one by one in front and behind him to create two teams equal in numbers.Nobody complained that he is not in the team with his best buddie (and naturally out of his "safe/comfort zone") or with someone he doesnt know.We competed each other in healthy manner of young boys. Lot of friendships were created.

 Maybe adults,joing todays computer game MP sessions,should stop pretending that being the best at computer game is somehow a proof of manliness,and act more like the boys playing ice hockey 

 

 

This is great and I hope you guys had fun.

 

When I was in school playing football we had to play against the best school in the state, the winningest program in the state and one of the best programs in the US.

 

We dressed 26 players, they dressed 98 players. I had to play offense, defense and special teams...couldn't hardly get off the field for a breather. Every series of downs I looked up to see a new, fresh player with a clean uniform lined up across from me, as they went 3-4 players deep at every position.

 

We lost 31-6.

 

That was a long time ago. Not sure if they autobalance in football these days.

[curiousGamblerr]

 in the US.

 

 

I'm an American and this same shit happened to me. Doesn't make it right, but American culture is all about the individual. It's selfish and going to be the end of us all. Poorly balanced Il-2 servers are just the beginning- just wait until the ice caps melt because us Americans "have the right to buy a giant ass truck because it's OUR money" and we all die 

[CUJO_1970]

Hi Cujo!, as you know i fly the same auotbalanced server you fly, maybe you refer to me.

 

Hello Glitterman - no I was not referring  to you sir.

 

I did notice you are always very friendly and polite online, and also a very good pilot.

 

Also, sometimes lost in translation in English is sarcasm with certain things so it's not always meant seriously. Salute, sir.

[Aap]

That was a long time ago. Not sure if they autobalance in football these days.

I think that from the beginning of the history of football (soccer, rugby, american) they have had autobalancing rules. If a new player is sent to field, another one has to come away, so that the amount of players on the field remains balanced. It is that way in most team based sports, even if there could be penalty situations that make one team shorthanded.

[CUJO_1970]

I think that from the beginning of the history of football (soccer, rugby, american) they have had autobalancing rules. If a new player is sent to field, another one has to come away, so that the amount of players on the field remains balanced. It is that way in most team based sports, even if there could be penalty situations that make one team shorthanded.

 

You sound like a real athletic supporter.

[Gambit21]

In CoOps in the old days I always picked the side that needed pilots. It's how I discovered the joy of certain aircraft that I wouldn't fly otherwise,

In fact it's how the Zeke became my favorite aircraft. I joined intending to fly the Wildcat as usual, but the blue team needed pilots.

 

The problem is too many inflexible "I only fly X" types.

[Lusekofte]

Lets hope Pasific make it better, to me it is the same if I fly a Kate or a devastator most of the time , same goes for Val or Dauntless and Betty or B 25/26. A 20 

When it comes to the PBY I will have a problem staying away

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Out of curiosity, is it possible to limit the number of aircraft available by type?

 

I see there are quantities listed, but that seems to be for each player, rather than old RoF style where they were all shared. Or does that vary by server?

 

I play during pretty quiet times, so even if they're by team I haven't noticed.

 

Lets hope Pasific make it better, to me it is the same if I fly a Kate or a devastator most of the time , same goes for Val or Dauntless and Betty or B 25/26. A 20

When it comes to the PBY I will have a problem staying away

Looking at the prospective aircraft, Midway is going to be quite balanced. Hopefully this will help with team distribution.

 

I worry that Battle of Okinawa is going to be an absolute shitshow though. No idea what the devs are thinking there, other than to hell with balance.

Edited August 4, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Out of curiosity, is it possible to limit the number of aircraft available by type?

 

....

 

I worry that Battle of Okinawa is going to be an absolute shitshow though. No idea what the devs are thinking there, other than to hell with balance.

 

 

1.  Yes

 

2.  The end-war aircraft available to the Japanese side, taken out of the context of the actual battle, should be absolutely superb, no?  I would think the aircraft quality balance will be better for the Japanese than Midway.  It's similar to what you said a couple pages ago about how if a "Battle of Berlin" scenario was depicted we'd end up with Me-262s annihilating all opposition and turning the tide of the war.

Edited August 4, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[Gambit21]

Here's a question.

One side has 27 players (German I'm guessing)

One side has 10.

 

Which side is going to be the most fun to join?

For my money, it would be the Russian side.

 

Who want's to outnumber your targets to that degree...amirite!!

[ATA_Vasilij]

Yes, my post was more suitable for fighters. But there is always a chance for you in bomber. Just find the best route, the best timing (you wouldn't expect how big difference in the result of mission depends on the right timing. How many deaths of myself I could eliminate if I could know to wait even just few seconds....) And of course you can ask others for covering during your mission. We fighters are happy if someone ask us for help. Those are one of the best missions.

 

With good tactic and little bit luck you can do even ground attacks even when out numbered.

 

This is the first I wanted to say.

Second is that Yes, I more enjoy game when it is balanced. When Germans have only 4 pilots more, often it is collapse of all Russian VVS. Because of their high altitudes powerful engines.

 

But on the contrary, perhaps I am from the old school, but I want to see the known names fly always for the same side. The feeling that they are your friends, fighting always with you for the Russia is just good. Much good.

Regardless of how much desperate the situation is. This is what I like.

[Pharoah]

Part of the reason so many people want to fly for the german side is the choice of a/c. I don't like the PE2. I love the H111 and JU88 (especially). Two really well made medium bombers. The russians have 2 versions of the PE2. No IL4, nothing else. When the A20B comes out, I shall be flying that exclusively...until then...

 

hell i even switched to the VVS today (28 v 14 or something). I could NOT get the PE2 85 off the ground no matter what. Short airfield and even with differential thrust (say 70% eng 1, 100% eng 2), the a/c kept pulling to the right and i crashed 3 times. So I said stuff it, and jumped back into a H111...and it was smooth as butter. 

 

Just a thought...

 

if the map was France and we had:

 

- P47s

- P51s

- P38s

- B24s

- B17s

- B25s

 

do you reckon it would be 28 v 14 to the German side? 

Edited August 20, 2017 by The_Pharoah

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It really would. In Spits vs 109 you still had an Axis imbalance a lot of times, generally speaking the Luftwaffe ace imagery and mythology has always attracted people more than the Average Joe, Tough Tommy or Brave Ivan. The latter three after the war sold images of "guys just like you" who went to war, fought, won and returned home - no frills, no flashiness, no nothing. On the other hand, German pilots were very individually celebrated for their achievements. Kill counts, medal after medal, a focus on the exploits of each pilot extending to books being written about them, it's a more glorious path for newcomers - "I want to be like Hartmann the fighter ace" is more likely than "I want to be an Il-2 master quietly shooting tanks and completing objectives with my friends with no recognition and a higher risk of dying".

 

About the Pe-2, check this video:

 

 

The Peshka is the best thing to ever get off the ground with two engines

[Guest deleted@30725]

This post is why I stopped playing online.

 

I used to play mostly Russian and got tired of being ganged up on by a team with more players. I played this game for fun with an element of realism. I am not going to war and am not pretending to re-imagine exact numbers on side vs side as well all know that in reality no teams were ever balanced.

 

But, as an armchair pilot I am well rested and have no fear for my virtual pilots life. I would still like to win the video game, but I'm not going to loose anything if I don't.

 

I do enjoy some of the LW planes, but generally find myself picking out the mc202 or e7 and I don't cry if I don't get LW although sometimes I DO cry if forced on LW

 

It would make it harder for friends and teams to join the same team, but if looking for realistic team vs team perhaps this is an organizational issue people can manage in private games?

 

Average joe looking to join a public match wants a fair fight. Average joe has not trained in one aircraft for flight readiness amount of hours or taken flight class to be allowed near the plane they're taking to war.

 

Average joe wants a fun game after work with a bunch of real people and there to be a % chance that they can make a difference in the game. Average joe, joining a side with 3 players vs a side with 10 is going to take one look and leave or write an angry chat message asking why the teams are not balanced.

 

However, a major issue with auto balance is that a player can do a massive amount of good for their team, only to be moved to the other team half way through or near the end, making their achievements for their initial team pointless and the hours wasted.

 

People who spend a lot of time in the action not getting shot down, but just missing out on kills can be moved as while they are helping due to causing fire on enemy plane engine, getting major hits and locking control surfaces, another pilot may get the kill credit and that player who is helping may appear to be doing nothing, get moved to the other team and be upset for their lost hard work.

 

Auto balancing is great, but so much other issues can be introduced. But as a start it would encourage more people to play online now with it in than not.

Edited August 20, 2017 by deleted@30725

[Royal_Flight]

Along similar lines, I spent a lot of time routinely flying red due to the unbalanced numbers. After a few matches flying for blue as well I've noticed that - sweeping generalisation - red tends to go for objectives and wins matches, whereas blue tends to play for points and individuals get a lot of kills often at the expense of victory.

 

Yes, it's entirely empirical evidence.

But I have noticed this happening. Coupled with that, as a bomber/ground strike pilot, I have noticed that red fighters are more likely to provide escort or to patrol over a target area to clear the way for a strike, if asked; whereas I have noticed this happening less while flying blue.

There are a lot of factors that could lead into this but I get the impression they there is a greater degree of teamwork on the red side at least some of the time.

 

Flying against overwhelming odds can be frustrating but it means each successful strike feels like an accomplishment. Whereas flying a long route to target as a blue bomber and getting shot down all the while seeing your own side's targets getting progressively snuffed out and wondering where your fighters even are is much more aggravating, especially when you can see that your side has a numerical advantage and it does you no use at all.

[Guest deleted@83466]

Don't have hard numbers on it, but it sure seems that there are a greater proportion of VVS bomber pilots compared to the LW side on any given mission.  When you add to the fact that the LW almost always has a 30 to 100% numerical advantage during the times I play, it means that the VVS fighter pilot is more often than not simply overwhelmed by enemy fighters at active target areas.   This makes me very reluctant to fulfill the bomber escort role, especially if it is the kind of bomber pilot who makes repeated target passes until he dies, and then repeats that over and over again...far too many times, I've escorted a bomber or two who has asked for it, and I find myself the only fighter against 4 or 5 superior enemy fighters, no friendly fighters anywhere in sight, and since I'm in a fight for my own life, there is nothing I can do for the bomber anyway.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Iceworm

[JG7_RudeRaptor]

So after a few frutsrating hours on wings of liberty today I just quit the game out of frustration, which hasnt happened in a long time.

 

The reason for my frustration is that the teams are constantly stacked in favor of the germans. okay on rare occasions they are balanced and on even rarer occasions they are stacked in favor of the russians.

 

When the teams are stacked like this it can really ruin the fun.

The germans are bored because there are no russians for them to shoot at and so they start vulching and the russians will certainly have less fun fighting an enemy with superior planes, 

 

 

I rather have that then fly around for hour and not see one bandit. And have tried the MIG and La with new 2.12?? I wouldn't call the La less superior anymore. That thing is a beast.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

The teams aren't even that I'm balanced anymore after the patch.