do we need autobalancing?

[NO_SQDeriku777]

Just fly German.

 

 

Just fly German.

 

 

 

Just fly German.

 

Just fly German

 

 

In a HE-111 there are so many crazy 109's around that you are safe flying to target and back.All good in a LW bomber.

 

Everyone flying German all the time non stop always will bring a change to a server.

 

It did in the old 1946 game with the Bf-109 G-6 binge flying back then

Doesn't work if I do it during peak flying time in my timezone. Do you really think the WOL admins care about what goes on while they are sleeping? It is a Russian server catering to a predominantly Russian/European player base.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

yes, that penalty nonsense is one of the worst "misfeatures" I've ever come across in gaming... it definitely has got to go

 

 

Misfeature, /ˌmɪsˈfiːtʃə/ Noun: An intentionally developed feature which by result or consequence becomes indistinguishable from a bug

My understanding from reading Russian forums with Google translate back when the change was introduced, is the reason we can't have nice things is due to the actions of a few.

 

Some individuals were deliberately switching sides to locate a player and then team killing at the spawn to remove a players long standing kill streak.

[-SF-Disarray]

I think the penalty they are talking about is the stat wiping when you switch sides; even then it is only a penalty if you really care about that, which some do I guess. I'm not sure why people care so much about stats but there is a long list of human behavior I don't understand.

 

I don't think there is much push back against the time you have to wait to switch sides. While it is a bit of a pain it is also a nice time to get up and grab a drink and such.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

why don't you create your own auto balanced server?

 

-snip-

 

No, seriously... /thread

[Aap]

Well, this is one of the weakest arguments, really. Could as well ask, why don't you create your own server with screwed up balance, instead of screwing up balance on another server.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

"That's a weak argument. Let me present an equally weak argument!"

 

Cyclical argument is the term you're looking for.

 

Why would I? There are already servers that allow everybody who purchased this software product to fly what they want to.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[Aap]

That was exactly my intention, demonstrated why "make your own server" is a weak argument. It has no value whatsoever and can be offered as a nonsense solution for any problem.

 

P.S. The argument that why would I create a server with screwed up balance when there are already servers that are screwed up by people that bought the product is equally weak.

Edited August 3, 2017 by II./JG77_Kemp

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

You can be as incredulous as you want but it's the only feasible, tangible answer to all the whine, whine, whine, whine, whine in this thread.   

[Aap]

Well, there could be another answer, addressing the issue without whining and blaming. For example a logic that does not allow bigger than 5 difference in player balance. Would not force anybody to fly what they don't want - only "queue" for one side could be longe than other side. Would not blame anyone, demand others to change or any of these hostilities that we see on topics here, where people have different views on these matters.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Well, there could be another answer, addressing the issue without whining and blaming. For example a logic that does not allow bigger than 5 difference in player balance. Would not force anybody to fly what they don't want - only "queue" for one side could be longe than other side. Would not blame anyone, demand others to change or any of these hostilities that we see on topics here, where people have different views on these matters.

 

Again... Start your own server and use the existing auto balance mechanism to balance the server.

 

That way:

• You're not dictating wants/needs to server operators who have no compelling reason to honor them:
  • ie. you don't pay their hosting fees, make their missions or contribute to anything more than their playercount...
  • They literally have to listen to people whine incessantly about things they don't contribute to financially, personally or otherwise.
• You're not dictating wants/needs to the playerbase who has no compelling reason to play for your enjoyment:
  • The classic "Sorry... Not sorry... But I'm not going to fly a LaGG because you want me to... And I'm not going to fly a 109 because you want me to."
  • ie. people pay for this product and have every right to use it as they see it with no investment in your enjoyment thereof (you could always start your own server!  )
• You get a server you can balance as desired:
  • Sure, you're going to have to pay a hosting fee. Yeah, you're going to have to learn the ME or find somebody else to build them for you.
  • You'll have virtually nothing to complain about!
  • Sure, your playercount probably isn't going to be good... Surprisingly, people are not going to flock if they can't play how they want!
  • You'll eventually shut the server down (Hosting is expensive! Show some respect!) You may not be able to build/find any missions to run (Who would've know the amount of time the TAW guys, Coconut, the Finnish dudes and even the WOL guys invest in their design philosophies, missions and servers!) and go back to whining about imbalance on the servers people actually play.

 

Just sayin'.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[CUJO_1970]

Ugh, why don't you folks who are upset just go out and make your own flight sim?

 

Gosh!

[SCG_Neun]

I posted but deleted it based on the response I was probably going to get on here. Forums aren't the best platform for discussing things. But I tend to agree with SG on this. If it was me on the VVS side of this I'd network with existing NA units and post a combat event time for guys to sign up and fly some missions inTAW or RE. I could be wrong but I think TAW tried the auto balance thing before and people just gravitated to other arenas.

 

I don't believe dictating to server owners how you are going to populate their servers will work in the long run. But you never know. I'm organized to the point of already having a contingency plan for all of this. I polled our membership a couple of months ago and we have plans. But my unit isn't concerned with any boycotts, fly whatever you want. Maybe this will open up more FNBF sever options in the long run.

 

Community has a way of evolving and we have to make the best of whatever the future for this game is going to be. My take is the way the online war server population is so sparse right now, I wouldn't rock the boat. But guys I'm not dictating anything here just giving my opinion. I wish everyone the best online and off.

[Aap]

Did not expect that kind of nonsense in return really.

 

I am not dictating players wants. The contrary really. Didn't you read my explanation? Your approach on the contrary dictates other players to fly on a server with screwed balance, if they want to try multiplayer. Many people clearly don't want that, otherwise we would not have several topics about it.

 

I did not know that you were contributing to these servers financially. Anyway I offer my feedback and advice to improve the gameplay there for free.

 

Again, the solution to "make your own server" is one of the biggest nonsense type of suggestions. "If you don't like that server crashes, make your own server." "Don't like cheating - make your own server." "Your car's engine broke up - make your own engine." I mean, sometimes it can be a solution, like when Enzo Ferrari dismissed Lamborghini's feedback about clutch, but in general it is "f### off" type of suggestion that just ignores the elevated issue.

 

About complaining, where did you see me complain? I was offering a solution to a problem that many people are complaining about (people who have bought the product, as this seems to be an important point for you). However I see you complaining here and offering no solution to the issue that has come up repeatedly.

 

Just sayin'.

Edited August 3, 2017 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Aap]

I could be wrong but I think TAW tried the auto balance thing before and people just gravitated to other arenas.

 

You are definitely wrong here. TAW had the philosophy of flying one side only. Flying for the other side was prohibited. Later they allowed two accounts, to allow balancing. Balance issues were probably the biggest problems of the early campaigns.

Ugh, why don't you folks who are upset just go out and make your own flight sim?

 

Gosh!

Exactly. Could add that to my previous list of examples. Did not like the unlock system of original BoS? Make your own flight sim then, instead of giving feedback.

[SCG_Neun]

Kemp, there are a lot of posts on here....somehow you have single yourself out as the person I was speaking to. It's why forums aren't good discussion platforms. . All the best.

Edited August 3, 2017 by 4./JG52_Neun

[Aap]

Neun, I did not think that you were talking to me. I did not even see you saying it originally, just responded that "make your own ..." is a nonsense arguement, when I saw Space_Ghost quoting it. I actually think you are doing great work with setting up the Luftwaffe network and have no issues against you, or against Space_Ghost for that matter.

[54th_Glitter_]

I´m really sad to see some kinds of harsh responses to the issue to discuss, specially in a forum and community so little and close as ours, flight sims. Happily are minority, and we get many other good and reasonable responses too.

 

As someone stated before, maybe what is needed for some people to see and understand this as what it is (-a problem of enjoy MP experience perfectly reasonable to discuss in forum, and not a whining or upset thing-) is to someday enter MP server and see no red players, only all pilots as blue players,...maybe then the "fly whatever you want", "crybabies","whine", and "go out and make your own flight sim" arguments will crumble down in the presence of such a enjoyable MP situation.

[VBF-12_Snake9]

Continue to fly the loads of German aircraft that they already have?

 

 

 

The idea is to include other pilots who prefer other aircraft/theaters....like the PTO for instance.

Many of whom no doubt have been holding off on purchase because they have no interest in the Eastern Front.

Lol

First time reading this forum in months. I am so bored with this eastern front. Four years of this mess. Lol

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

If you like flying red, and log on to WoL to see a massively loaded blue team...

 

Log off, pick another server, and start populating it.

[=ARTOA=Bombenleger]

If you like flying red, and log on to WoL to see a massively loaded blue team...

 

Log off, pick another server, and start populating it.

 

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

If you like flying red, and log on to WoL to see a massively loaded blue team...

 

Log off, pick another server, and start populating it.

 

Once again, this isn't about wanting to fly red. The problem is that most of the people on here bitching are doing so because they're sick of flying red in order to keep things balanced. The problem is that if they switch to the other team there will be no one left on red. This has been stated dozens of times in this and other threads about the same topic.

[Lusekofte]

What if everybody conclude with a simple yes or no

 

I say NO unless it is a dogfight server , because it does not work as intended

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Well if nobody wants to fly red, sounds like a problem with the product.

 

Anything the server could do would just put more people in your position.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

You're a cheeky one, aren't you?

[Rolling_Thunder]

What if everybody conclude with a simple yes or no

 

I say NO unless it is a dogfight server , because it does not work as intended

Thats not a simple yes or no.

Well if nobody wants to fly red, sounds like a problem with the product.

Anything the server could do would just put more people in your position.

Hahaha

This issue is obviously too far over some folks heads. Its cute to watch some folk struggle to comprehend. I can almost visualise the look on their faces.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Well please dumb it down for us small folk then; because this thread is going nowhere fast.

[Rolling_Thunder]

A small handfull of folk prefer flying red. A small handfull of folk are willing to switch to red to try and balance the teams and make MP a worthwhile experience for all. For all. The problem is not enough folk are willing to make the MP experience worthwhile for all.

If you want to play the game you paid for how you want that is, of course, your right. Unfortunately MP numbers are not going to grow because of that. MP will remain where it is now, the numbers may even drop, especially with the much anticipated revamped campaign on the horizon. It really is up to the MP community. Its not rocket science and its not a small handfull of folks problem.

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

Well please dumb it down for us small folk then; because this thread is going nowhere fast.

 

Some people like to fly RED

More people like to fly BLUE

Many people like to fly both but are stuck flying RED because they want the multiplayer experience to be worthwhile and not 90% BLUE

 

How's that?

[Fern]

Atleast you [edited] arent complaining about the 190 anymore.

 

 
7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

 

Watch it...not here man.

Edited August 4, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Some people like to fly RED

More people like to fly BLUE

Many people like to fly both but are stuck flying RED because they want the multiplayer experience to be worthwhile and not 90% BLUE

 

How's that?

LoL.

 

So essentially people are being "forced" to fly a side they don't feel like flying, because a lot of people don't care to fly for the red team we were given.

 

So how do you fix that without putting someone else into your place?

Edited August 3, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr

[Rolling_Thunder]

Mig 15 collector aircraft. Problem solved

[7.GShAP/Silas]

TAW and RE running the newest aircraft available so far with Kuban from the start of the campaign rather than starting with the bare minimum Moscow aircraft and ramping it up slowly would help.  Kuban in general with its more powerful Soviet aircraft will help.  Even if it didn't get more people to fly Soviet, which it will, it makes it more bearable for those of us who fly red no matter what.

Edited August 3, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[Alexmarine]

Mig 15 collector aircraft. Problem solved

PAK FA and we have a deal

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

a lot of people don't care to fly for the red team we were given

Luftwaffe imbalance features in most online WW2 simulators, it's not the I-16's fault.

[Feathered_IV]

Okay, how about a Gulf of Finland map, and everybody gets the I-153?

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

LoL.

 

So essentially people are being "forced" to fly a side they don't feel like flying, because a lot of people don't care to fly for the red team we were given.

 

So how do you fix that without putting someone else into your place?

 

Exactly. Now you see why this is such a tricky situation. I have NO IDEA how you fix this All we can do is put our heads together in these forums, make it known that it's an issue and try to figure something out. The big problem is that if history is an indicator it will get way worse when the Pacific hits.

[Brano]

I remember when I was a kid, we used to play ice hockey on the frozen lake each winter.We were bunch of friends,but there were always some other kids we didnt know, who wanted to join us. All of us put our hockey sticks on one pile.One boy,with his eyes covered by scarf,stepped over the pile and randomly picked sticks throwing them one by one in front and behind him to create two teams equal in numbers.Nobody complained that he is not in the team with his best buddie (and naturally out of his "safe/comfort zone") or with someone he doesnt know.We competed each other in healthy manner of young boys. Lot of friendships were created.

 Maybe adults,joing todays computer game MP sessions,should stop pretending that being the best at computer game is somehow a proof of manliness,and act more like the boys playing ice hockey 

[Lusekofte]

Thats not a simple yes or no.

 

It is as close as it possibly could . Because of the nature of the different servers.  

 

 

So essentially people are being "forced" to fly a side they don't feel like flying, because a lot of people don't care to fly for the red team we were given. So how do you fix that without putting someone else into your place?

 

 

The situation would have been a lot worse if everybody was selfish and egocentric. This is why we see no real growth in active multiplayer servers, and a overall WT attitude 

Edited August 4, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[von_Tom]

Just get rid of the player counter and the ability to see who is flying on which side and with what numbers.

 

It may all change when Kuban is out anyway.

 

It's a game.  A fun and intense and often frustrating one, but it's still only a game.

 

von Tom

[ATA_Vasilij]

My small point of view on this.

Yesterday I was also frustrated from germany dominance and yes, they were overnumbered. And Yes in 80 percent cases there is always more german flying pilots than russian.

 

BUT

 

Its up to You, what you will make it with.

You can born on the airfield, which is closest to the front and for sure under the attack. And you will be frustrated. Or you can born on the furthest one and take off in very peace.

You can go into the battles with very passion just to kill someone, and you will be frustrated from the germany dominance, because there will be always someone who kill you at last. Or you can very choose where you fly, how you fly and if it is worthy to go into this hell.

You can complain about comms in between german, or you can use TS as well, and be in other red pilots in linking, for better cooperation. Yes written messages in game are slow, and less effective.

 

This is war my friend, not walking in the red roses garden. If you wanna survive and even kill the enemy, you must use all your skills, resources and mind thinking, to make best decisions, to achive your goals. It is not about the number of planes, not about the performance of the planes, and not about the side you choose. Its about you, and what you will make with it.

 

TIPS: More germans mean more target for your guns, and more opportunities how to learn how to survive in any situation = you will become very Ace pilot. If you are able to learn from that situations.

 

Many times I was a witness of maps, where germans were dominating. Many red pilots were killed, a lot of reborn them again and again. We lost ground forces, we lost airfields, But the reds were going into the battles again and again and one small victory joined to another small victory, and step by step we could handle the situation. Some pilots can keep the germans far away from the tanks so some T34 can do their job and reach the flag. And it doesnt matter that fighters were shot you down then, but You was able to destroy the he111 and save the tanks, and thats it. Step by step. Yes many tanks will be destroyed, but one of them will reach that goal, and if you finish the map with complete victory for the RED side, all your injuries, all your frustration is suddenly out, because you all...as a team, where each one is making his small little - at last could do that ! And thats count. Those are the moments for which is worthy to be in that battle, its worthy to be a pilot or gunner or in the tank. For that moments it is worthy to be alive.

 

Yes, many times it is not this case. Many times you can do your best and you will lost. But there is a question: Did you really do your best? It means: did you do all for the team and for the final victory........, or was you doing everything just to hunt kills and score for yourselfish ego? Because in those cases you will probably loose. Your team will loose. When you fight for yourself, not for the team.

 

On one map "Crafty deploy...." there are factories on both sides. And you must protect them agains enemy bombers... You know, it is enough only one Ju88 or He111 with their huge bombs, and is "painted". I often write messages to the RED pilots  - that we must protect factory. And do you thing that they will accomplishe your orders? Sometimes only one, two? will join you, but rest are dogfighting in the middle of map. Leaving the enemy bombers the free way,...

 

With this approach we soon or later will loose. But, when are there a team players, and more aircrafts is patroling in the space from which bombers are coming, then the game gains the right power, and we will win almost for sure.

 

No deaths, No outnumbered, No frustrating feelings may allow you to surrender..... what counts is your little help to the team game, to the whole victory of your side. That counts.

 

Cheers and enjoy.....