No enemies spotted and too fast wingmen

[Tapi]

Hi,

I am new to PWCG. I have just flown 4 missions (Bf 109 F). This campaign generator looks promising but I have encountered two problems:

 

1) I did not encounter enemies on 3 of 4 missions :-/ Brief look into all mission logs showed me, that some enemy formations were always generated. May be my fault that I did not see them (even with aircraft labels ON). But on the other hand, all my mission routes were ordered to fly in the 4000-5000 meters and we obeyed (I started my career at lowest rank so I simply always followed the leader). Is it possible that enemy formations were generated to fly in a very low level so that it was impossible for me to see them? And how about AI leader of my schwarm - should not he spot the enemy planes the first?

 

2) AI from my schwarm always fly all the route on a combat mode (2500 RPM) and not on a cruise mod (2300 RPM). It is very unrealistic and if I lost contact for a few seconds it is often impossible to catch my schwarm again... Is it possible to change this behavior?

 

Thanks for answer

[Yogiflight]

Hi tapi,

it happens quite often, that you fly patrols or so in high altitude, while Il2s attack at low level. And when they are further away, than the 10km render distance, the AI can't spot them, too. When you are flying in 4km altitude or even higher, they don't have to be very far away from your flight path, to be out of the 10km radius around your aircrafts. From my experience 3 out of 4 times is just bad luck, so it should definitely get better.

According to your second question, you should change the cruising speed for the aircraft type, you are flying. You can find it in 'Battle of Stalingrad/PWCG Campaign/BOSData/Input/AircraftInfo'. I suppose, you are flying the F4, which has a default cruising speed of 470km/h, IIRC. Simply change 'Cruise = 470km/h'. I changed it to 440km/h, what did the job for me, but you can go even lower.

[Tapi]

Thanks very much Yogiflight for the answer.

There was 440 km/h (in the case of F-4) in my Aircraftinfo file already. So I lowered it to 390 and it seems to work as I want.

 

add 1) So AI never spot enemy planes? Nor in case AI is a leader of flight or schwarm?

Edited July 21, 2017 by tapi

[Yogiflight]

They can only spot them, when they are in the 10km circle. So if the flightpath is 7 or 8 km away from yours, or they pass you one minute earlier, then your leader won't spot them. But it happens of course that your flight suddenly starts diving down, because your flightleader spotted an IL2 flight. As I mentioned, you had just bad luck.

[Tapi]

OK, understand. Thanks Yogi.

[Alfaunostebas11]

Hi Yogiflight !

Very interesting your tip about how reduce the (hyperbolic) cruise speed of the AI planes...

But is it possible also in BoS standard or only in PWGC ?

In BoS I have not found the Aircraft info file text to modify...

 

Thank you, Stebas.

[katdog5]

nice tip. thanks.

 

ive also had the no enemy experience, although i dont think any enemy spawned at all as I hit ctrlf2 when i got

too curious. ctrlf2 does help if you missed spotting them. which also happens as expected

[unreasonable]

Hi Yogiflight !

Very interesting your tip about how reduce the (hyperbolic) cruise speed of the AI planes...

But is it possible also in BoS standard or only in PWGC ?

In BoS I have not found the Aircraft info file text to modify...

 

Thank you, Stebas.

 

I do not think that BoX works like that.  The speed that the AI flies towards the next waypoint is set in the WP properties box in the ME. AFAIK there is no function (available to us at any rate) that says "If WP is connected to 109 F-4, then 470kph, if G-2 then... etc" for the whole list of planes.

 

Quite how the career mode (I mean the BoX one soon to be released, not PWCG) sets WP speeds for the AI in randomly generated missions I do not know. Presumably the scripted mission people would know if they have to input the speeds in each WP manually.

 

You should ask one of the scripted campaign makers.

[dburne]

I notice since starting my PWCG 3 campaign in Kuban with the Spit on Saturday, I seem to be getting these no enemy missions more often. I flew over 200 missions in my PWCG 2 Stalingrad Campaign with the Yak-1, and whilst it happened it was very rare.

 

I am 11 missions into this new Spit campaign, and so far 3 of them have resulted in no enemies found. I fly with icons on and check the large map frequently as well, never could find any. And my flight lead of course did not either.

Edited January 8, 2018 by dburne

[busdriver]

I notice since starting my PWCG 3 campaign in Kuban with the Spit on Saturday, I seem to be getting these no enemy missions more often. I flew over 200 missions in my PWCG 2 Stalingrad Campaign with the Yak-1, and whilst it happened it was very rare.

 

I am 11 missions into this new Spit campaign, and so far 3 of them have resulted in no enemies found. I fly with icons on and check the large map frequently as well, never could find any. And my flight lead of course did not either.

 By any chance have you considered buying Tacview? I only mention it because I've discovered bandit formations (that I didn't see in game) while reviewing the ACMI files. You can try it for 21 days.

[dburne]

 By any chance have you considered buying Tacview? I only mention it because I've discovered bandit formations (that I didn't see in game) while reviewing the ACMI files. You can try it for 21 days.

 

I will take a look at it thanks.

[PatrickAWlson]

Per cruising speed: As unreasonable states cruise speed is designated in the mission as part of the waypoint entity.  PWCG uses the cruise speed inthe aircraft info file to load the waypoint MCU, so waypoint cruise speed comes directly from the file.  Cruise speeds came from online research, which may or may not be the best value for the game.  If anybody is playing with the cruise speeds please let me know and I will change it.

 

About no contact: I find that I get contact about 75% of the time.  I am flying Moscow now and I am getting some missions without contact, but still plenty.  75% no contact has not been my experience, but if it continues to happen it might have something to do with where your squadron is.

 

The virtual waypoint system that PWCG uses means that the point where aircraft will spawn changes throughout the mission.  They are really "flying" their mission (through timers and check zones and activate and deactivate), just not spawned.  This means you have to be in the right place at the right time, not just at the right place at any time.

[dburne]

 

The virtual waypoint system that PWCG uses means that the point where aircraft will spawn changes throughout the mission.  They are really "flying" their mission (through timers and check zones and activate and deactivate), just not spawned.  This means you have to be in the right place at the right time, not just at the right place at any time.

 

Ah, that is good to know and it may have something to do with it.

 

I have disabled climbing waypoints, could that affect this? I had them disabled in my PWCG 2 campaign though as well.

Edited January 8, 2018 by dburne

[PatrickAWlson]

One more thing - there is an advanced configuration called ShowAllFlightsInBreifing under campaign advanced configs (User Preferences).  Set it to 1 to see all of the flights on the briefing map.

[busdriver]

One more thing - there is an advanced configuration called ShowAllFlightsInBreifing under campaign advanced configs (User Preferences).  Set it to 1 to see all of the flights on the briefing map.

 

That's certainly less expensive than buying Tacview. I do like Tacview, during replays I've watched  a pair of friendlies tag teaming a bandit only to have one friendly fly in front of the other and die. PWCG's debrief narrative clued me in...that was so cool.

[dburne]

One more thing - there is an advanced configuration called ShowAllFlightsInBreifing under campaign advanced configs (User Preferences).  Set it to 1 to see all of the flights on the briefing map.

 

Good to know, will give a try thanks.

[PatrickAWlson]

That's certainly less expensive than buying Tacview. I do like Tacview, during replays I've watched  a pair of friendlies tag teaming a bandit only to have one friendly fly in front of the other and die. PWCG's debrief narrative clued me in...that was so cool.

I view them as entirely different things,  The briefing map will tell you what will happen.  TacView will tell you what did happen.  The briefing map was a debug tool for me that I left in place for others to use if they think they are getting too much or too little activity. 

 

My last mission we came up empty, but F2 showed a flight of IL2s and a flight of PE2s out there.  We just never saw them.  Wondering if going lower would help.  Also noticed that missions that generate lots of fighters will result in more contact because they seek you out where bombers will merrily go about their business.

[busdriver]

I view them as entirely different things,  The briefing map will tell you what will happen.  TacView will tell you what did happen.  The briefing map was a debug tool for me that I left in place for others to use if they think they are getting too much or too little activity. 

 

My last mission we came up empty, but F2 showed a flight of IL2s and a flight of PE2s out there.  We just never saw them.  Wondering if going lower would help.  Also noticed that missions that generate lots of fighters will result in more contact because they seek you out where bombers will merrily go about their business.

 

I too look at them differently, my point simply being TacView's price may be a non-starter for some folks (not implying anyone specific).

 

WRT to patrolling at a lower altitude in order to trigger an engagement with lower flying bombers, I reckon it depends on the altitude split (difference). In my modified Spitfire campaigns my Lead has missed/ignored and bounced bombers at a lower altitude. I can appreciate players wanting contact with the enemy every single mission, personally I'm okay if Lead doesn't engage for whatever the reason. I like this bit of historical accuracy.

[dburne]

Well one thing I think I can safely say now, I am 15 missions into my Spit Campaign and I am definitely getting more no enemy ai missions as a percentage than I got previously in PWCG 2 .

Thankfully they have been some relatively short missions so did not have to spend a lot of time flying around.

 

So far about a third ( 5 ) of my missions have been this way 

 

Not complaining, just an observation, loving flying my Spit over Kuban with PWCG 3!!

Edited January 9, 2018 by dburne

[dburne]

Man just had a pretty long patrol mission, this one also had no enemy ai at least that I could find.

Not sure why my percentage of these is so much higher with PWCG 3 and the Kuban Map.

 

The random burning structures is a nice addition!

Edited January 10, 2018 by dburne

[PatrickAWlson]

Front patrols are not that long - Offensive patrol?  I know that offensive patrols generate less activity than front patrols.  I also have a good idea as to why.  What I am less sure about is what to do about it, but I will give it some thought.  One other aspect of 3.2.0 is that it should generate more random ground activity, but I doubt that your fighter flight will go after them.  I can look into that too.

[dburne]

Front patrols are not that long - Offensive patrol?  I know that offensive patrols generate less activity than front patrols.  I also have a good idea as to why.  What I am less sure about is what to do about it, but I will give it some thought.  One other aspect of 3.2.0 is that it should generate more random ground activity, but I doubt that your fighter flight will go after them.  I can look into that too.

 

No worries, I just flew two more missions , and both of them had some good activity. Hopefully that will  continue.

I managed to rack up 7 kills combined on the last two.

[dburne]

Pat, don't know if this is relevant but an observation:

 

Those last two missions where I had enemy ai ( bombers ), my flight lead never saw them.  I managed to spot them first on the large map, both times there were flying at a significantly lower altitude than our Spit group was cruising. So I just abandoned the group and went after them.

[Taxman]

Don,

 

I've had the same experience, the flight leader not reacting to flight that is lower.  On 2 missions I was patient and followed my flight leader, later on we came across the same enemy flight it was then that the flight attacked.  Go figure? 

 

Yea flying the Spit. is a treat.   

[dburne]

Don,

 

I've had the same experience, the flight leader not reacting to flight that is lower.  On 2 missions I was patient and followed my flight leader, later on we came across the same enemy flight it was then that the flight attacked.  Go figure? 

 

Yea flying the Spit. is a treat.   

 

Yeah this Spit is awesome, getting more used to it now after logging several flights with it. I am loving it more and more.

So glad Pat included it in PWCG 3!

[PatrickAWlson]

See other thread.  I want to randomize altitudes more.  As a result you will get more lower patrol flights, but it will  be a mix of high and low.  Another possibility is adding cooperative flights where an AI flight can fly high as top cover while you fly low.  The first is easy.  The second will take time.