Saitek Combat Rudder Funeral Service

[Mmaruda]

So my rudder died today. I was flying a mission from the scripted campaign when all of a sudden I noticed rudder does nothing... I still managed to complete the mission and land (even bagged a Mig-3), but man do I feel sad! It's not like I am grounded, I still have my trusty backup CH Pedals, but they simply aren't that good. Sure they will probably outlast me, but precision-wise and comfort-wise, it's just not the same. Not to mention the horrible centre deadzone. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice piece of hardware, but just not very well suited to something like BOS. There was a reason I got them Saiteks, but man oh man, am I mad. Only 3 years of use and already the pot is dead. I tried opening them up to see what's wrong and... all is in order. Just a dead pot. The last few weeks haven't been great honestly and this just takes the cake. I feel kind of sad now. The CH Rudder is going to take some time to get used to (as in, half the bit rate takes its toll in BOS).

I tried a couple of take-offs and landings with the Mig-3 being the hardest of the bunch and it's really a pain, since no matter how hard I try, it's very hard to stay consistent (which wasn't a problem with the Saiteks).

 

In any case, it was good piece of hardware and it served me well, but at the same time... Considering the price, a dead pot is really a cheap way to go.

 

In any case, if anyone is considering buying pedals for BOS, I wouldn't recommend Saitek due to longevity problems and I also can't really recommend CH (thouth they are tough and will last long years), dues to precission issues (could the devs implement something ti make low res pot hardware feel smoother?).

 

Which basically leaves us with Thrustmaster... How are them new T.Flight something rudders?

 

PS I really feel depressed at this point.

[Beazil]

Since you have the know how to open them up and determine the only issue is the pot, why not just replace the pot with a new one?

[Mmaruda]

No idea where to get that kind of pot.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

many places mate..

Specific brand of pot dont matter just its range and output blah blah...

Can even order them from Aus Here and get it shipped (our postage is cheap)
https://www.jaycar.com.au/search?text=potentiometer&CSRFToken=6ada0166-2104-4da8-811b-10b4c014fb5f

Edited July 15, 2017 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[Mmaruda]

No idea on the range and output. It just says 50 KB-40 on it.

[coconut]

Maybe try this http://m.ebay.com/itm/50K-OHM-Linear-Taper-Rotary-Potentiometer-50KB-B50K-Pot-/250816593344

 

Worst that happens is you fry your currently unusable pedals, and it's not very likely.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

No idea on the range and output. It just says 50 KB-40 on it.

Range should be easy to determine once you disassembled it.

If I'm not mistaken the 50 K stands for 50 kOhm. You need get a new one with the same resisdence, otherwise it will not work with the inbuild adruino.

Try looking on ebay or conrad.

[Mmaruda]

Ok I'll give it a shot. Thanks guys! Hopefully they can be revived.

[Sokol1]

Since you have the know how to open them up and determine the only issue is the pot, why not just replace the pot with a new one?

 

Beware - another Sokol1's "joystick wall of text".

 

The reason is because the potentiometer inside the pedal is not like this linked (1) above by =TBAS=Sshadow14.

 

Joystick/pedal/rudder  use "JOYSTICK POTENTIOMETER" with special "electric effective angle" resistive trail - limited to 30 - 60 degrees instead of 270 - 300+ degrees of the linked models.

 

See this "electric effective angle" (the bold area) in this Polyshine potentiometer datasheet - Saitek use this brand potentiometers. CH Producst use CTS potentiometers.

 

 

"Ah, good news, Is just shop for this Polyshine 30 degrees "electric effective angle".

 

Now the bad news: We don't live in "perfect word" - this type of potentiometer is virtually nonexistent in shops (physical or in Web), seems they are made for industry only.

 

(1) Other problem with this pot' - their have different physical size, axis diameter, axis D recess that the model installed in rudder - so will be not "Pnp" for replace, will be need mechanical adaptations - if is need go in this way better use HALL sensor instead (IMO).

 

If use this 270 degrees pot' models?

 

In USB controllers (in joystick, rudder, throttle...) potentiometer read VOLTAGE VARIATION and not resistance.

 

A 30 degrees (of resistive "electric effective angle" trail) make this reading trough all 30 degrees, that is in Saitek 0 to 3.5v (in other models 0 to 5v).

 

If you install a 270 degrees pot' due pedal mechanics their will turn only ~30 degrees and so instead read 0 to 3.5 v will read 0 to 0,4v. this will decrease pedal resolution proportionally. (in Saitek pedals is 10 bits - 1.024 steeps).

 

 

 

 CH (thouth they are tough and will last long years), dues to precission issues (could the devs implement something ti make low res pot hardware feel smoother?).´

 

CH Products don't use low resolution potentiometer, but use low resolution - 8 bits 256 "steps" USB controller (introduced circa ~1999/2000), is their "Achilles Heel".

 

People confundes quality construction and so durability - that is very good on CH Products, to be fair the best on traditional brands - with control precision, what is subjective and personal, in Eagle forum you see people swear that their CH stick is better for fly that their Warthog (that in most is a kind of "English Collar)

 

Thrustmaster TFPR is not a improvement over Saitek and CH pedals - is just "more of the same" or "or exchange six to half a dozen", better Q/C that Saitek (electronics on par), better electronics but worst build quality than CH.

 

If budget is restricted goes for VKB T-Rudder, their build/electronic quality is on par with "high end" models - Baur, MFG, Slaw.

 

Yes, their lack of "Joe brakes", but in BoS is not issue, "British/Russian brakes" work in all planes.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Sokol1

[Beazil]

Ok I'll give it a shot. Thanks guys! Hopefully they can be revived.

 

I'll bet it sounded rediculous when I suggested you replace it, but I figured, meh, all you'd have to do is identify the pot, buy a new one, twist the wires to the new connection (solder if you are worried about it) and presto!  new pedals!

 

At least in theory.  Plus I knew guys like Coconut and Sokol would have a good bit of friendly advice and suggestions.  Man I sometimes wish we all lived closer together.  I'd buy a round for this bunch.  I really love a good online community.

[Mmaruda]

Well by CH resolution, I meant that 256 steps is a bit low for BOS. Modern flight sims like BOS and DCS have a weird way of reading axis inputs and translating them to the game. It's like, if there is not enough resolution for a smooth progress of the axis, it results in jerky and wobbly plane movement (the infamous wobble in BOS, the "trimmer bump" in DCS Ka-50). I really wish developer would implement a solution that would take into account that we don't really have super precise controllers with the same throw as the stick and rudder on the real plane. IL-2 1946 had some decent axis smoothing and curve editing options. It's not drastic in all planes, but get into something with high torque and not wheel locking mechanism and a simple take off becomes something nearly impossible to do (I still cannot take off and land with the CH rudder in a Mig-3, the center snapping drives me insane).

 

As for the pots, what Sokol1 wrote was my exact concern. Finding anything like that online is a chore or near impossible. Basically finding a needle in a haystack. :@

Edited July 15, 2017 by Mmaruda

[Mmaruda]

Good news fellows! I opened up them rudders to have another close look at the "dead" pot. Long story short, it's not the pot! While examining the whole setup I noticed that my previous troubleshooting hasn't been thorough enough - I check the contacts, checked the cables, even swapped the pins to confirm it's not the controller, but what I did not check was the whole lengths of the wires and now it became obvious. One wire was broken. It was hard to determine, since it was at a point where they were all bunched up and wrapped in paper tape, still it was broken.

 

Fixing this was a test of my patience. These are very thin wires, nothing solid, almost like a thread, some thin isolation, hardly noticeable. Soldering this together was near impossible, I would need like 4 hands. I managed to use some tweezers to pull the wire out of it's gutter (are they glued in there?) which provided me with some room to manoeuvre. Solder did not stick to it though, so I ended up twisting the two ends together after scraping of the paper-thin insulation an tucked the under the plastic part that swivels when you push the rudder.

 

What I should have done and this is a pro tip for everyone trying to fix broken wires was to twist them together and cover them with Super-Glue, but I did not have any. I will rectify that tomorrow probably. In any case, if you have a broken wire issue or any other case where solder does not combine the two elements or it's not solid enough - Super-Glue is the answer.

 

In any case, I now have working rudder again and my only hopes are that my ghetto job will last.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Yep. Exact same failure in my Saitek pedals a year ago. Same location (under the tape) same struggle to rejoin the wire.

 

I fixed them, but replaced them with Crosswinds anyway. I should have just gone straight to MFG Crosswinds from the start.

 

The poor design of the Saitek pedals severs the wire. Now you are effectively running 'Zombie' pedals, brought back to life. Let's hope they don't bite you mid combat haha.

Edited July 20, 2017 by =TBAS=Tripwire

[ZachariasX]

Same here. Wires for toe brakes are a pain to solder as well. Had to do that too.

 

Opening a Saitek device really makes one want to cry. The way they wire things up...

[9./JG27golani79]

Same here. Wires for toe brakes are a pain to solder as well. Had to do that too.

 

Opening a Saitek device really makes one want to cry. The way they wire things up...

 

Same here and although I´ve managed to repair them I switched them for MFGs

No regrets (besides the Saiteks in the first place) :D

Edited July 20, 2017 by 9./JG27golani79

[Sokol1]

Broken wires inside Saitek is "common" - seems they use low flexible wires:

 

 

If someone more will "adventure" in fix Saitek or - more rare CH - "broken" toe brakes, replace the wires with microphone cables - has the needed internal 3 wires, and probable will last more than other parts.

 

For CH PRO pedal low resolution (8 bits, 256 "steps") controller, is easy and cheap replace the controller with Arduino PRO Micro ~$6 and MMJoy2 firmware what gives 10 bits (1.024 steps) on axis - can be 12 bits (4096) with external ADC MCP3208.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Sokol1

[ZachariasX]

Great idea. I keep that in mind. Feels like putting a Ferrari engine in a Trabant...