Spitfire - Maybe a Little Too Good?

[JG27*Kornezov]

Where have you been flying recently

 

Do you take into consideration that flaps are not deploying above a given speed, or only partially deploying ?

The yawing moment it's there for sure.. What I find almost inexistent is the rolling moment, but I've been thinking about it and the wing used in the Spitfire can well be a good explanation...

Whenever I enter a MP server, I chose the side based only in equilibrium ... Even if I am willing to fly VVS, I pick Axis and fly mostly the 109s, but also the 190 and the Caproni, and, I can easily beat the Spits - at least as easily as when I fly a Spit against those aircraft... 

I honestly see no favouritism in the way the aircraft is implemented.

Most of the time I pick the P40E when flying VVS though - it became my preferred VVS fighter...

 

Where have you been flying recently on MP and with what nickname?

p40 seriously? This is the most undermodelled plane in the whole game.

 

A newbie that cannot fly the spit will not save him. As the plane is super-performing under very specific circumstances and if a guy  does not know them, cannot exploit the full capacity, but it is true for every plane.

However with siimialr level of comptences the Spit is over-pefromrning: can out-climb, out-run and out-turn a 109.
The only thing I do not agree completely is about the outrunning.

For the other things I cannot bring a completely objective argument and I stated so.

However the LW pilots should know what a Spit can do.
 

Edited July 21, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[Guest deleted@50488]

Where have you been flying recently

 

Where have you been flying recently on MP and with what nickname?

 

mostly at the ...@ Tanks server, which was down for a few days... I'm always "jcomm".

 

I do not get into "complex" servers since I am not particularly interested in air combat, or combat of any sort, strategy, co-op... and all of the stuff simmers who like this details are up to... I just like to test the flight dynamics feel in a flight simulator...

Edited July 21, 2017 by jcomm

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

However with siimialr level of comptences the Spit is over-pefromrning: can out-climb, out-run and out-turn a 109.

 

That is just plain wrong. Neither can the Spitfire outclimb the F4 and higher series (~ 3800 ft/min for 3 min with the Merlin 45) nor does it out run them (525 km/h on deck). Edited July 21, 2017 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Is it really pulling 3800/minute? Because that is a little insane.

 

Speed on deck is faster than combat mode for all 109's. Thankfully just for 3 minutes.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Only if you go full boost (16 psi). It will also build up heat insanely fast so you will have to open radiators slowing you down further.

[Bullets]

I think people forget that the Spit had 1440~hp (dont know the exact figure) to play with at full throttle (More than even the F4!).... The only reason she is slow is because of her massive wings which because they create so much lift they are pretty draggy. At full throttle she should climb pretty well    However Kornezov you are plain wrong, even at full throttle she is slower and climbs worse than every 109 apart from the E7..   She is more "manoeuvrable" yes but she almost definitely should be because of those big beautiful wings..    Getting tired of people that just suck at flying complaining their aircraft is being outperformed when its just not the case 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Bullets

[Finkeren]

Really? Are we still having a discussion about this?

 

Since the Spit was released, I have been killed by them less than a handful of times online. The Yaks are still by far the most dangerous opponent a German pilot can face. Probably the Spits will become more dangerous once people start to fly a bit smarter energy-wise, but for now I find them to be less of a threat than the Yak and La-5.

 

In SP it's a different story. The higher level AI takes full advantage of the insane angles the Spit can pull to deliver deadly pot shots at any angle. In QMB it kills me more often than I can kill it with veteran AI, which I can't say for any other plane.

[Bullets]

I know its stupid   Reminds me of ROF when people flying in a spad complaining they cant kill a dr1 when they get down low and try to turn fight it...   

[JG27*Kornezov]

Some people are way more active in the forum than on online MP servers. The average MP Joe do exist and he is not happy at all, even if he will never complain here because of fear to be ridiculed by the Red bias forum aces.

Edited July 21, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[Bullets]

The average mp joe is not happy because evidently he isn't a good pilot   "sigh" bias is a myth..    Literally anyone with a brain cell here wants all aircraft to perform accurately.. Please just go back to crying about Yak Flaps and leave the poor spitty alone 

[Brano]

The average MP Joe Sepp do exist and .....

[54th_Glitter_]

Some people are way more active in the forum than on online MP servers. The average MP Joe do exist and he is not happy at all, even if he will never complain here because of fear to be ridiculed by the Red bias forum aces.

 

Since you had set yourself up as the voice of the people, is mandatory to update the list:

 

-boost management,

-engine power,

-flying stability,

-turning rate,

-high g force turns,

-strong frame and high resistance to hits

-too powerful weapons

-flaps usage and no lost of energy

-no yawing

-the average MP Joe is not happy

-...

 

BTW ... nice last sentence addition to your signature today, how convenient. "However developers should never forget that the cannon fodder supply is not unlimited and people just quit" 

I would have love to read it there from years ago, not only now, ...but its never too late!    (Just kidding a little Kornezov, Salute!)

[Finkeren]

Some people are way more active in the forum than on caonline MP servers. The average MP Joe do exist and he is not happy at all, even if he will never complain here because of fear to be ridiculed by the Red bias forum aces.

I've flown dozens of hours on the DED normal server over the past couple of weeks, and you can't get much more average than that. There was pretty much parity between LW/VVS both in terms of win/loss and number of kills with tons of Spits in the air.

 

The Spit has not tipped the scales at all.

[Irgendjemand]

All I think is wrong with the spit is its guns. Or maybe rather not they but the german mineshells. But thats another thread.
If you dont turn against the spit youre fine. Just like one would expect.

 

EDIT: Oh and maybe its DM. Seemed a little too tough the few hours i played against it on berloga until now. But maybe this neeeds some more hours of evaluation:) Maybe when I get back from vacaiton.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Irgendjemand

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I've flown dozens of hours on the DED normal server over the past couple of weeks, and you can't get much more average than that. There was pretty much parity between LW/VVS both in terms of win/loss and number of kills with tons of Spits in the air.

 

The Spit has not tipped the scales at all.

While I am both a Luftie at heart and NOT in a Spit is too good camps, to say the Spit has not moved the needle is not accurate either. She is formidable within her flight envelope, though outclassed by LW aircraft flown to their strengths.

[Finkeren]

While I am both a Luftie at heart and NOT in a Spit is too good camps, to say the Spit has not moved the needle is not accurate either. She is formidable within her flight envelope, though outclassed by LW aircraft flown to their strengths.

Same could be said of the Yak-1.

 

To be sure, the Spit can do a couple of amazing things, that is outside the scope of even the Yaks, but currently the "average Joe" flies it like all it can do is pull angles and the result is, that as a LW pilot (I've flown mostly the Fw 190 online since the update) you can pretty much count on having the energy advantage mere seconds into the fight.

 

This is what I've seen happen online. Other People's experience might be different. My hunch (and it is just a guess) is that many of the people who used to fly the 109 (badly) now fly the Spit (badly).

[Sokol1]

 The difference between 16-bit sensors and real life is probably like switching from 8-bit sensors to 16-bit sensors - or maybe even bigger. d.

 

OT - But, many CH joystick fans swear that there's no difference in flight control between 8 bits (pot') and 16 bits sensors joysticks.  

[CUJO_1970]

The problem is too many death or glory dweebs flying 109s. Instead of getting speed and altitude they get in the weeds with Yaks and Spitfires and play in their envelopes instead of exploiting the natural advantages of the 109.

 

They are simply too lazy and undisciplined, too impatient.

 

I've seen several red pilots rage quit when forced to fly and die against blue pilots that use proper tactics.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Same could be said of the Yak-1.

 

To be sure, the Spit can do a couple of amazing things, that is outside the scope of even the Yaks, but currently the "average Joe" flies it like all it can do is pull angles and the result is, that as a LW pilot (I've flown mostly the Fw 190 online since the update) you can pretty much count on having the energy advantage mere seconds into the fight.

 

This is what I've seen happen online. Other People's experience might be different. My hunch (and it is just a guess) is that many of the people who used to fly the 109 (badly) now fly the Spit (badly).

We are essentially in agreement. The scales have, perhaps, not tipped but the scale pans are a little closer to level with both the Spit and the 1b compared to fifteen months ago. There are some very good long term duels now where I used to end them fairly quickly as long as I didn't get impatient in a LW crate. I am happy though, it makes for a more enjoyable experience overall as far as I'm concerned. I don't feel like I'm bludgeoning rabbits and don't sweat it when I lose a fight to a well piloted weapons platform either. I'll leave it to others to argue a few percentage points here or there as it's not really my concern. The Spit seems plausible overall.

[54th_Glitter_]

My same thoughts on the issue HerrMurf.

[Bullets]

     Ditto 

[JG27*Kornezov]

I do not agree at all.

[GridiroN]

Too easy? I wish I was good enough to find the spit too easy.. lol. It dances nicely and the guns have a flat trajectory which is awesome, but otherwise it's nothing special (as it should be. The VB wasn't a well liked version of the type).

[indiaciki]

@jcomm - I just landed a spit and applied both brakes - full brakes. I do not know if you were refering to that. No nose-over.

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by indiaciki

[Guest deleted@50488]

@jcomm - I just landed a spit and applied both brakes - full brakes. I do not know if you were refering to that. No nose-over.

 

 

First of all, and more important - Great Landing indiaciki !!! You nailled it 

 

Regarding the braking, yes I think the real thing would probably prop strike if full brakes were used. It's probably simplified to allow for users with simpler controllers to brake without risking it...

 

Anyway, I am enjoying this update so much that I can easily Forget about these details...

Edited September 1, 2017 by jcomm

[Boaty-McBoatface]

I think people forget that the Spit had 1440~hp (dont know the exact figure) to play with at full throttle (More than even the F4!).... The only reason she is slow is because of her massive wings which because they create so much lift they are pretty draggy. At full throttle she should climb pretty well However Kornezov you are plain wrong, even at full throttle she is slower and climbs worse than every 109 apart from the E7.. She is more "manoeuvrable" yes but she almost definitely should be because of those big beautiful wings.. Getting tired of people that just suck at flying complaining their aircraft is being outperformed when its just not the case

Best post in this entire thread.

 

Fanboys complaining because of their lack of skill and Luftwaffe affiliation; that's what this thread is, through and through.

Edited September 9, 2017 by temujin

[150GCT_Veltro]

...and what about Luftwaffe dive aceleration that's totally missed? Nice time for VVS, and we don't talk abaout Hispano, ecc. ecc..

Edited September 9, 2017 by 150GCT_Veltro

[unreasonable]

Some people are way more active in the forum than on online MP servers. The average MP Joe do exist and he is not happy at all, even if he will never complain here because of fear to be ridiculed by the Red bias forum aces.

 

Some people never fly MP and wish there was no MP in the game so that we would be spared this constant paranoid whining.

[VesseL]

What is the spits turntime in game and what it was in real life? have someone tested it? Also hispanos versus other cannon ammos? It turns extreamely fast and the hispanos feels too poverfull against 109. Maybe its all right, but it feels too good . I fly both sides.

Edited September 9, 2017 by VesseL

[L3Pl4K]

 

 

...and what about Luftwaffe dive aceleration that's totally missed?

It looks like the dive acceleration, has in general some space for improvements.

[Irgendjemand]

It looks like the dive acceleration, has in general some space for improvements.

What I think is going to happen: It weill be fixed when other planes come out that shine in that aspect - historically accurate. Just like the LA5s rollrate will be "fixed" when the FN comes out.

[3./JG15_Kampf]

 

 

What I think is going to happen: It weill be fixed when other planes come out that shine in that aspect - historically accurate. Just like the LA5s rollrate will be "fixed" when the FN comes out.

 

Fixed the final yak speed when yak1b was released

[JG27*Kornezov]

I think people forget that the Spit had 1440~hp (dont know the exact figure) to play with at full throttle (More than even the F4!).... The only reason she is slow is because of her massive wings which because they create so much lift they are pretty draggy. At full throttle she should climb pretty well    However Kornezov you are plain wrong, even at full throttle she is slower and climbs worse than every 109 apart from the E7..   She is more "manoeuvrable" yes but she almost definitely should be because of those big beautiful wings..    Getting tired of people that just suck at flying complaining their aircraft is being outperformed when its just not the case 

I think Bullets steps on the conclusions who can and cannot fly way too easily. Ad hominem arguments are acceptable when you do not have anything left to argue with.

I commented what was written on the forum by the developers, and what I was thinking about it. 

 

"Merlin 45 engine:

Maximum true air speed at sea level, 3000 RPM, boost +9: 480 km/h

Maximum true air speed at sea level, 3000 RPM, boost +16: 535 km/h"

Emergency Max All Out power (up to 5 minutes): 3000 RPM, boost +16

 

Bf 109 f4

Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 522 km/h

If you go to emergency you have 1 m

Emergency power (up to 1 minute): 2700 RPM, 1.42 ata