Premium Maps?

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

I agree with BlackHellHound, with the current system building the map just for SP might not be enough. However having the map bundled to a historic scripted campaign or two would be a good idea, since then it would attract more people into it from the MP crowd that also enjoys playing the scripted campaigns.

 

 

Now the Yak-1B I consider the only true dickmove the developers ever pulled with the payment model of this game. I don't wanna kick off a performance discussion here, but I don't think there can be any doubt that that thing is the best fighter the VVS has by a mile and it might even stay that way, depending on how the P-39 turns out

 

I get your point Ether.. but you are looking at it from a today's perspective with Kuban incoming. They wouldn't just have it for free to the players... and it was planified before the Kuban expansion (they didn't know if there was going to be approval from 1C to continue developing the sim even)... so I don't know what would you have done. Not creating the 1B? You can say with Kuban they could have included the Yak-9... but it really is very very similar to the Yak-1B in looks and performance is almost the same (why did I spend money on the 1B if some time after I can get the Yak-9 with Kuban?/ Why would I spend money on the Yak-1B already having Kuban with the Yak-9?), I understand why they went with the Yak-7B, a big number of those were made and also participated in earlier battles like Stalingrad.

Edited July 9, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Mmaruda]

 

 

However having the map bundled to a historic scripted campaign or two would be a good idea, since then it would attract more people into it from the MP crowd that also enjoys playing the scripted campaigns.

 

Now that is a good idea!

[SharpeXB]

The Channel Map for RoF was extra DLC but that created a problem for mp in that it's never used online due to many players not having it.

[Feathered_IV]

Luckily the majority of customers are singleplayers then. If it's known that optional maps are not used in MP, there's nothing to hold them back from flooding the store with SP maps.

[unreasonable]

I agree. The best solution is to have lots of extra paid for SP content, that is not available on MP at all so that they cannot continue with the incessant whining.  Sometimes I think that all MP forum commenters must be AB supporters.

 

Planes, maps, mods etc. I would even pay more for it if it was not accessible for MP!   

[Pharoah]

Excellent idea. I know there are quite a few aussie based pilots who like the look of BOS but don't like the theatre (ie. eastern front) and actually still play CLOD!! Developing a channel or Malta map and reskinning the current a/c (BF109/110, Spit, JU88, H111) would definitely get them into BOS, rather than making them pay for a/c and theatres they're not interested in. 

[Herne]

I have had so much enjoyment out of IL2, since the VR patch, that I would really like to show my support with my wallet, but I have run out of things to buy. 

If Maps were available to purchase then I would probably buy them, all of them, if for no other reason than to show my appreciation, but i think perhaps, premium skins for AC could be a more appropriate option, maybe even pilot "skins" custom uniforms, badges, scarfs and mustaches

I don't know. I'm sure the dev studio will think of something, and whatever it is, I'm pretty sure I'll be happy to buy it.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I've been thinking about this and I'm split on if Premium maps is a great idea.

 

Maybe the majority of players are single player oriented but there are plenty of players in the multiplayer servers too (its growing slowly) and I considered it a stroke of genius to go with the current model of making the maps available to all in multiplayer. Excluding people from access is a major problem for even high volume triple-A games like Battlefield. It's telling that they are switching to a free map DLC mode for Star Wars: Battlefront 2 as the DLC for the first game isolated the community.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing more maps so then it comes down to which maps, how much time do they take from which resources on the team, and would they be complete experiences? You need the mapping team, texture artists, 3D modelers for map objects, historical research, etc. If it was possible to do those things and provide a complete experience on the map then that sounds pretty good to me. It'd still need to be available to all in multiplayer.

 

I'm hoping one day the Odessa map comes out. It looks great and we mostly have the aircraft set to go with it. I am wondering if a couple more Collector Planes could give us the types that would flesh out an aircraft set on that map above and beyond the Battle of Moscow set. An IAR80/81, Su-2, SB-2 and/or I-153 plus maybe a couple more tanks and that would finish that scenario off nicely.

[SYN_Mike77]

How much would it take to import the Rise of Flight channel map into BoX?  It is still in DX9, would that be a problem?  Has anyone tried to just drop it into their Box folder?

[ShamrockOneFive]

How much would it take to import the Rise of Flight channel map into BoX?  It is still in DX9, would that be a problem?  Has anyone tried to just drop it into their Box folder?

 

Someone asked how much work it would be and apparently its a lot of work. It's not plug and play as the mapping technology has been updated/changed.

[SYN_Mike77]

That's what I was afraid of.  Oh well, Kuban map looks like it will be a lot of fun!

[unreasonable]

I've been thinking about this and I'm split on if Premium maps is a great idea.

 

Maybe the majority of players are single player oriented but there are plenty of players in the multiplayer servers too (its growing slowly) and I considered it a stroke of genius to go with the current model of making the maps available to all in multiplayer. Excluding people from access is a major problem for even high volume triple-A games like Battlefield. It's telling that they are switching to a free map DLC mode for Star Wars: Battlefront 2 as the DLC for the first game isolated the community.

 

.....

 

I would not mind the premium maps being available in MP without payment - if MP players were charged a monthly fee, after a free allowance of hours perhaps.  Making maps is very expensive and it needs to be paid for unless it can be subcontracted out to modders: I see no reason why SP owners should subsidize MP. 

[Herne]

I would not mind the premium maps being available in MP without payment - if MP players were charged a monthly fee, after a free allowance of hours perhaps.  Making maps is very expensive and it needs to be paid for unless it can be subcontracted out to modders: I see no reason why SP owners should subsidize MP. 

 

That could be a turn off to a lot of people though. Why risk alienating some of your existing player base ? Personally I can't see much mileage for new maps in single player. They would have to come with a campaign for single players even to really be interested in buying them ?

 

Seems to me that MP is where new maps would really shine, and we have already established why it would be a bad idea if some had access to the maps and others did not.

 

One thing is for certain though, we will see new maps, once focus shifts to the pacific

[unreasonable]

That could be a turn off to a lot of people though. Why risk alienating some of your existing player base ? Personally I can't see much mileage for new maps in single player. They would have to come with a campaign for single players even to really be interested in buying them ?

 

Seems to me that MP is where new maps would really shine, and we have already established why it would be a bad idea if some had access to the maps and others did not.

 

One thing is for certain though, we will see new maps, once focus shifts to the pacific

 

Some MP players may like getting new maps for free - and yet even here in this thread there are others who are saying that new maps are bad because they will "divide the community".

 

The problem is simply that they are not, unless they are mods, free at all. Someone has to pay for the work that has to be done to provide them, and I see no reason why MP should not cough up their fair share if they expect to use them.  

 

If there are new maps there will soon be new SP campaigns.  They have been a little slow in coming for SP with this title probably because the mission editor is not very easy to use and the early campaign hopes were still-born, but now they are coming on stream and very good they are too.

[Chief_Mouser]

The RoF channel map would seem to present some sort of opportunity.  They have all the basic data and there was limited economic development between the wars; ie no new railways laid, no new towns, etc.

 

The 'plane set could now construe some sort of mid war channel battle scenario too.  A Hawker Hurricane would serve equally well here and on the Moscow map.  The arrival of the A20 - or Douglas Boston as the RAF called it - would be very interesting.  Even the P39's very limited service with the RAF took place here.

 

It would be a story of RAF fighter sweeps and bomber escort,  LW jabo attacks on the coastal towns of southern England and anti-shipping operations by both sides.

 

 

 

However, I wouldn't want to see any of this interfering with the development of the Battle of Midway. 

 

It's a shame that the ROF Channel map has hardly any English Channel on it. North Sea, Thames Estuary and Straits of Dover yes; Channel? Hardly any.

Just nitpicking, but well-informed nitpicking!

Cheers.

 

PS Where did you find that old version? There's at least five spelling mistakes on it.

Edited July 14, 2017 by 216th_Cat

[ShamrockOneFive]

Some MP players may like getting new maps for free - and yet even here in this thread there are others who are saying that new maps are bad because they will "divide the community".

 

The problem is simply that they are not, unless they are mods, free at all. Someone has to pay for the work that has to be done to provide them, and I see no reason why MP should not cough up their fair share if they expect to use them.  

 

If there are new maps there will soon be new SP campaigns.  They have been a little slow in coming for SP with this title probably because the mission editor is not very easy to use and the early campaign hopes were still-born, but now they are coming on stream and very good they are too.

 

What you're saying is true, however, we've seen in other games (and even briefly in this one) is a problem where pay-for content ends up in multiplayer either not being used or walled off for a few to play. Which defeats the point of multiplayer. You want all of the players playing.

 

Most publishers are going away from making people pay for the base level/map content and charging for other stuff. Otherwise it creates problems for both the people who paid for the new content and for the people who haven't/won't which is a loose-loose proposition. It's frankly worse for us because the player base is much smaller.

 

So if additional maps come from the devs they will need to find a way to get paid for it without making it something that everyone has to pay for in multiplayer.

 

Once again I hope that the Odessa map comes with a pair of Collector Planes that fit that scenario. The map itself will undoubtedly be free but maybe paying for a couple more aircraft would help offset any developer time on that map and if there are any agreements with the developers of that map then offsetting that too.

 

It's a shame that the ROF Channel map has hardly any English Channel on it. North Sea, Thames Estuary and Straits of Dover yes; Channel? Hardly any.

Just nitpicking, but well-informed nitpicking!

Cheers.

 

PS Where did you find that old version? There's at least five spelling mistakes on it.

 

It's a good point. I suppose they call it that because most of the operations that you do undertake are over the channel itself. The North Sea portion of it is largely inaccessible to WWI combat aircraft.

[Custard]

I would not mind the premium maps being available in MP without payment - if MP players were charged a monthly fee, after a free allowance of hours perhaps.

 

Do you work for Eagle Dynamics of something? What a fantastic way to attract the ire of the flight sim community and trash the great work that has been done to rescue the new generation IL-2's reputation.

[CanadaOne]

BOX is a business and I have money, so sell me stuff. Maps, planes, a working mission editor, I'll pay for all of that. Hell, sell me a BOX coffee cup, I'll buy that too.

 

If the business model is to not sell stuff that people want and will pay for, well, I'll just add it to the list of things in the world I don't understand.

[Rolling_Thunder]

....

So lets make the whole shebang a free for all MP experience. All the maps, all the aircraft free. Nobody has to buy anything. Just create an account, download the installer, hit MP and enjoy all the development for absolutely nothing!

Heaven forbid somebody has the inconvinience of having to exit a server and join another because they havent ponied up for a certain map!

[ShamrockOneFive]

So lets make the whole shebang a free for all MP experience. All the maps, all the aircraft free. Nobody has to buy anything. Just create an account, download the installer, hit MP and enjoy all the development for absolutely nothing!

Heaven forbid somebody has the inconvinience of having to exit a server and join another because they havent ponied up for a certain map!

 

This is what they call an "appeal to extremes" and is a logical fallacy. Its not at all what I was suggesting.

 

In the model that has been used until recently by most publishers, you'd buy a base game for $60 (lets just round it off) and then buy several individual DLC packs for about $15 or so or you can buy the premium/all access pass/whatever for another $60 (which usually ends up being a $10 discount from buying each DLC separately). You see that a lot with Battlefield and Call of Duty.

 

The IL-2 model is a little different where you buy the "battle" module which comes with the planes, vehicles, map, etc. The developers have smartly made it so that multiplayer content is shared so that anyone with any piece of the game can theoretically join a server and play even if they don't own that particular battle module. It keeps the entire community engaged in multiplayer. If they go away from that model and offer up just a map that is behind a paywall then when happens is the multiplayer base is split and fewer players end up either playing with the new content or they do play with the new content but experience it with small numbers of other players.

 

This is happening with AAA titles where people are buying the DLC but its splitting the multiplayer community up and frequently the DLC servers sit empty with nobody enjoying the content. Publishers are now, after many years, moving away from this model and are announcing that map packs will be free but other content will be pay for.

 

Have I explained it well enough or TL;DR?

[sinned]

BOX is a business and I have money, so sell me stuff. Maps, planes, a working mission editor, I'll pay for all of that. Hell, sell me a BOX coffee cup, I'll buy that

You still have not bought JU52, why? Ju not interesting for ju?

 

Stop your pretence "i buy everything"

 

No you didnt.

[unreasonable]

Do you work for Eagle Dynamics of something? What a fantastic way to attract the ire of the flight sim community and trash the great work that has been done to rescue the new generation IL-2's reputation.

 

I think the error that you and others are making is equating the MP set with the flight sim community.  They are not, as all the data and research I have seen show. They are a small minority.

 

 If you have paid SP premium maps available for free in MP the community is already divided: into those who are paying to have the work done to provide those maps and those who are free-riding.

 

So a response from some MPlayers is "Do not make any more content, it divides the community".  But new content is the only thing that can keep this game alive. For a game to be alive, it has to be generating income.  That can only come from sales of the base game to new customers, sales of extra content to existing customers, or a subscription model.  Having a few thousand people happily buzzing around dogfighting in MP using the same content for years is not enough.

 

Remember that the main reason that Il-2 BoS's reputation was so damaged initially was because of the way it had butchered the SP content, compared to both IL-2 46 and RoF, and the main reason that it is rising from it's deathbed is that this issue has been recognized and is being addressed. Nothing to do with MP.

Edited July 15, 2017 by unreasonable

[Feathered_IV]

You still have not bought JU52, why? Ju not interesting for ju?

 

Stop your pretence "i buy everything"

 

No you didnt.

 

How could you know if somebody did or didn't buy a Ju-52???

[sinned]

How could you know if somebody did or didn't buy a Ju-52???

Sigh... this sounds awfully similar to "how do you know JU52 needs more sales?"

 

He said it himself. He cannot bring himself to buy it. A great plane of ww2 that was in service throughout the period yadayada whatever according to some... is not worth to fly.

 

I got ju52, so point that tone of hostility of yours to him. Not me.

[Feathered_IV]

Sigh... this sounds awfully similar to "how do you know JU52 needs more sales?"

 

He said it himself. He cannot bring himself to buy it. A great plane of ww2 that was in service throughout the period yadayada whatever according to some... is not worth to fly.

 

I got ju52, so point that tone of hostility of yours to him. Not me.

 

Shant.  I like CanadaOne 

[Gambit21]

Nothing to do with MP.

I'm in agreement with your post - but the Devs do have an interest in bringing us a "Hyperlobby-ish" CoOp system if possible at some point. That's no small thing. For starters it will be like RoF - although admittedly I still don't quite know what that looks like.

[Mesha44]

I think this issue will only get worse with Midway.  It's just a small island after all and there is nothing else to fly to, see or do on the map.  I think the solution for the pacific is 777 will have to produce a number of maps that fit the aircraft set.  A better solution though might be to make a basic set of tools like Bohemia Interactive did for Arma 3.  There are countless maps for Arma made by third parties.  Most use the buildings and vegetation  created as assets by Bohemia.  While creating a tool to make or import 3d objects into maps may not seem like a good business investment it has paid back many times over for the Arma series.

 

While these maps may fragment the community somewhat the fact that most are available via steam makes getting them, and keeping them up to date trivial.

[DD_Arthur]

It's a shame that the ROF Channel map has hardly any English Channel on it. North Sea, Thames Estuary and Straits of Dover yes; Channel? Hardly any.

Just nitpicking, but well-informed nitpicking!

Cheers.

 

PS Where did you find that old version? There's at least five spelling mistakes on it.

 

I agree about the amount of channel, lol! but for the purpose of RoF this was where the action was.  For the purpose of BoX it would serve for a decent amount of '41 - '43 action too.

 

Is it an old version?  I copied the map from RF's store page.  I'm pretty sure the spelling mistakes have always been there.  They do not seem to detract from the enjoyment of the map ingame.

 

However, the conversion of this map to something that would work in BoX would still require a substantial amounbt of work and I'm not sure they'd want to create the sea in the same way for BoX as they did with RoF. 

[von_Tom]

Malta and Sicily would be very good.

 

What has happened with the Murmansk map - I think that was waiting for the Kuban tech but will it be resurrected?

 

von Tom

[CanadaOne]

You still have not bought JU52, why? Ju not interesting for ju?

Stop your pretence "i buy everything"

No you didnt.

After I bought the Yak-1B, you failed to wish me Happy Flying!". I have not forgotten this.

 

Now I'm sad again.

[sinned]

Ju52 not worth the money?

 

This duo is just hilarious. One guy talks about how great flyable ju52 is and the other, pretends he buys everything but he asks for free planes "as a goodwill for loyal customer".

A loyal customer who cant bring himself to buy ju52?

 

What a great commercial success ju52 is!

BOX is a business and I have money, so sell me stuff. Maps, planes, a working mission editor, I'll pay for all of that. Hell, sell me a BOX coffee cup, I'll buy that too.

 

 

Joke of the year from a guy who wants free planes.

[Rolling_Thunder]

...

There are 3 maybe 4 maps, with aircraft, on the horizon. Kuban, midway, Okinawa and 1 other. To go with what we have now. Why would the "small" development team, divert resources towards something that a percentage of the player base wont buy? Were told over and over by jason that the franchise depends on sales otherwise it's in jeopardy why would they provide free content for the small MP community just because some would have to leave a server when a map, they havent paid for, rotates into use. Because some MP players wont pay, all MP players shouldn't pay? You want free content there are quite a few free to play airquake titles out there.

It appears to me it takes a lot more to make a map than an aircraft. The aircraft aren't free, why should the maps be for MP. Because it devides the MP community? Icons devide the MP community. Game styles devide the MP community. MP is a ghost town because it's an unorganized airquake mess. No ammount of free maps is going to change that.

[Royal_Flight]

The Ju52 is great, btw. Also this sim needs more non-fighters anyway. Storch, Po-2, C-47 or a derivative of...

That would add much more depth.

[Danziger]

Apart from maybe a very bare bones time limited demo I don't think anything should be for free. There are plenty of people gifting content here on the forum.

[Cybermat47]

Excellent idea. I know there are quite a few aussie based pilots who like the look of BOS but don't like the theatre (ie. eastern front) and actually still play CLOD!!

I'm fine with the Eastern Front, mate, I play CloD because it offers different theatres (Britain, Tobruk). The two games complement each other.

 

I don't know why people want BoX to have the Battle of Britain and North Africa when we already have CloD... I'd much rather that we got theatres that haven't been depicted for ages, like New Guinea, Defence of the Reich, Italy, the Pacific, Spain, and China.

[CanadaOne]

Ju52 not worth the money?

This duo is just hilarious. One guy talks about how great flyable ju52 is and the other, pretends he buys everything but he asks for free planes "as a goodwill for loyal customer".

A loyal customer who cant bring himself to buy ju52?

What a great commercial success ju52 is!

 

Joke of the year from a guy who wants free planes.

 

Why yes, I would love a free plane. Thank you for offering.

[ShamrockOneFive]

There are 3 maybe 4 maps, with aircraft, on the horizon. Kuban, midway, Okinawa and 1 other. To go with what we have now. Why would the "small" development team, divert resources towards something that a percentage of the player base wont buy? Were told over and over by jason that the franchise depends on sales otherwise it's in jeopardy why would they provide free content for the small MP community just because some would have to leave a server when a map, they havent paid for, rotates into use. Because some MP players wont pay, all MP players shouldn't pay? You want free content there are quite a few free to play airquake titles out there.

It appears to me it takes a lot more to make a map than an aircraft. The aircraft aren't free, why should the maps be for MP. Because it devides the MP community? Icons devide the MP community. Game styles devide the MP community. MP is a ghost town because it's an unorganized airquake mess. No ammount of free maps is going to change that.

 

What you've outlined is why I think Premium maps are a bad idea in general. Within the context of that discussion, however, I don't think the development team should divert from their current system which is making sure that everyone can play on multiplayer servers no matter what they own.

 

Multiplayer looks to be doing pretty well IMHO and isn't an air quake mess. I see the DBS guys doing structured missions and I see some really well organized gameplay being put up on YouTube from the likes of Bismark, Thor and Vade. I've had a pretty good time on there too. So you can interpret how its going in your own way but I don't think your point is well made with regards to advocating further disruption in the multiplayer arena via Premium maps.

 

Then again... I think we seem to agree that they are a bad idea in the first place. Too much time and effort to not pair it with other more meaningful content.

[Chief_Mouser]

I agree about the amount of channel, lol! but for the purpose of RoF this was where the action was.  For the purpose of BoX it would serve for a decent amount of '41 - '43 action too.

 

Is it an old version?  I copied the map from RF's store page.  I'm pretty sure the spelling mistakes have always been there.  They do not seem to detract from the enjoyment of the map ingame.

 

However, the conversion of this map to something that would work in BoX would still require a substantial amounbt of work and I'm not sure they'd want to create the sea in the same way for BoX as they did with RoF. 

 

This map wouldn't really work in BoX unless it was totally rebuilt; it is of such poor quality compared to what we have, the landscape especially. If I were to have a BoX 'Channel' map I would also have a different area, expanded to the south and west from this RoF one and include more 'Channel'. Like I said, not much 'Channel' on the RoF one.

 

 

I'm not knocking it btw, I provided quite a lot of info for the English side of it - including correcting the spelling mistakes!

Cheers.

[unreasonable]

 

I don't know why people want BoX to have the Battle of Britain and North Africa when we already have CloD... I'd much rather that we got theatres that haven't been depicted for ages, like New Guinea, Defence of the Reich, Italy, the Pacific, Spain, and China.

 

Because CloD sucks?  Maybe it does not anymore- but Team Fusion's instructions on how to upgrade it certainly do.  Life is too short.

[LukeFF]

How could you know if somebody did or didn't buy a Ju-52???

 

It's best to just ignore him.