Premium Maps?

[LuftManu]

Hello everybody!

 

With the release of the Spitifre a lot of new people and not so new have become more "common" in the forums. After it success I was thinkg about something like premium planes: premium maps.

 

 

Having new maps and paying for them can be good income for the Developers if they manage to make them worth the work. 

I don´t want to change the systme right now, I mean: I want all the maps to be free in Multiplayer games like it is now but having other options, not really the Ostfront or the pacific also can bring new life to the sim.

 

I was thinking in something in the Western front. Of course not big cities but with the release of Kuban map and the Pacific, I think the "Channel" map can be a good adittion to what we have now and with the new "sea" Technology can be great.

 

I was thinking in something like this:

 

No big cities, great landmarks, lots of sea...

 

With the P40, Spitfire, Gustav and Friederich alongside the 110 a great 1942 Channel map can be made.

 

Of course this is an idea, I hope the Devs can achieve something out of this if they have already not!

Kind Regards

Manu

 

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

Excellent idea,  why not have the correct period aircraft you suggested doing combat on that channel map, its as about as close to a European campaign your going to get 

[Feathered_IV]

It sounds like the devs are already fully engaged, but if a trusted third-party produced it and offered it for sale in the same manner as a standalone campaign or the RoF Sikorsky, I'd certainly be interested.

[Finkeren]

Not against the idea, but I would prefer a desert map before anything else.

 

Just fits the planeset we have so well. Spitfire, P-40, P-39, A-20, Bf 109, Fw 190, Bf 110, MC. 202, Ju 87, He 111, Ju 88 and Hs 129 all saw action in North Africa.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Finkeren

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Would support the idea although Jason already sayed that it isn't as straight forward to convert the RoF channel map for BoS as it seems. Also map creation is very time consuming in both ressearch and building so I doubt that we'd get a lot of maps (both dev as well as user created).

 

Of course, and I'm sure many know that, such content must not delay overall development of new expansions.

Edited July 9, 2017 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Finkeren]

Would support the idea although Jason already sayed that it isn't as straight forward to convert the RoF channel map for BoS as it seems. Also map creation is very time consuming in both ressearch and building so I doubt that we'd get a lot of maps (both dev as well as user created).

 

Of course, and I'm sure many know that, such content must not delay overall development of new expansions.

 

Well, we had one map created almost entirely by Zeus with loads of detail. Yes, it was a tremendous task, but far from impossible for a small team.

[FTC_Etherlight]

Splitting up the already fairly small community even more with premium maps? Bad move.

 

It's one thing to have premium planes which are simply not accessible to those who chose not to buy them on a server where everybody can play together. But to make these maps viable one would have to buy them to be able to join a server where it's running, no? It barely, BARELY works out in DCS with their Nevada map, but DCS has a) a huge SP portion and b) lots of more players. In our situation with our community size and what people are used to? Bad move.

[LuftManu]

Splitting up the already fairly small community even more with premium maps? Bad move.

 

It's one thing to have premium planes which are simply not accessible to those who chose not to buy them on a server where everybody can play together. But to make these maps viable one would have to buy them to be able to join a server where it's running, no? It barely, BARELY works out in DCS with their Nevada map, but DCS has a) a huge SP portion and b) lots of more players. In our situation with our community size and what people are used to? Bad move.

I didn´t mean that. Right now you can enter on all maps in MP.

 

I mean that the system should be like it is now. You can enter on those maps on MP. This system is great because if it is worth it, people will buy it even if they can play on those maps for free on MP. Also, take note on all of the campaigs that can be made (3rd parties maybe?) on those maps

 

As for Africa, I would also like it! It was just an idea about western theater because Jason stated that Africa/Med wasn´t on their plans and Wester front was  beyond them because of the complex raids

 

I think is a good idea after BoP is finished, to fill a gap

Edited July 9, 2017 by LF_ManuV

[CanadaOne]

I would absolutely pay for a new map. Personally, I don't care if it's accurate to the real world, only that it's interesting. Varied terrain, mountains, airfields small and large, front lines with defended installations on both sides. Make it alive, make it fun, make it interesting.

 

IL2-46 BAT has a fantastic map, "Online Mountains #8", that is almost perfect. The map is alive and there are lots of things to do and see, including some pretty challenging mountainside airfields to land on.

 

I'd drop the cash for a map like that in BOX.

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

New maps could be Malta, Kursk, or any other that expands the sim. I think at new maps are imperative to the growth of the sim. A new pack of maps that could be used with the present planes would make a good headway. The CLOD was stuck for too long in the same map and players got bored of it.

[Semor76]

Splitting up the already fairly small community even more with premium maps? Bad move.

 

It's one thing to have premium planes which are simply not accessible to those who chose not to buy them on a server where everybody can play together. But to make these maps viable one would have to buy them to be able to join a server where it's running, no? It barely, BARELY works out in DCS with their Nevada map, but DCS has a) a huge SP portion and b) lots of more players. In our situation with our community size and what people are used to? Bad move.

This! we really dont need more "Premium" stuff. No,thanks

 

IL2 BOX is already an expensive Game. Imho this Sim finally need the MOD option. With the release of a propper SDK,the users will create high quality Maps for the entire community for free.

 

Easy and simple.

[Livai]

The Premium or Collector planes are already a problem. What you think if they push forward with Premium or Collector maps!!! Cause just more rant

[BlackHellHound1]

I don't think premium maps will come to BoS/M/K.

The current system allows a player to play on every map in MP without owning the corresponding game. 

As far as my understanding goes, this was done in an effort to prevent a split player base.

 

I would love to see more maps but there are some things that need to be taken into consideration!

 

If this system is kept, then buying the maps would only be attractive to a small group that would want to pay for a map to play alone on. I doubt this group is large enough to be profitable.

The other option would be to ditch the old system. But this would split the players and exclude some from a certain server or specific missions on a server. I do not see this happen anytime soon.

 

More maps would be cool. However, I prefer to see only a few maps and a great game then a lot of maps and an "oke-ish" game.

The addition of new maps through new additional "games" is something I am all up for. 

 

I like the way things are going and in my opinion, the devs have their priorities set just right!

 

BlackHellHound1

 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I'm with Finkeren, a North Africa map would would be a good fit.  It might also be an easier project for a community based project.

 

Also, wasn't there an Odessa map that was going to be released?

[Finkeren]

Also, wasn't there an Odessa map that was going to be released?

 

It's still in the works. Nowhere near finished from the looks of it, but it's coming.

[unreasonable]

I'm with Finkeren, a North Africa map would would be a good fit.  It might also be an easier project for a community based project.

 

 

 

That would be my favourite too. Probably need 3-4 end to end, given the size of BoX maps even to cover the main Western Desert actions, but as long as Cairo and maybe Alex are not included - or like Moscow done as an illusion - all that is needed is mud brick houses, rocks, camels and the odd palm tree. And a single railway.

[Sokol1]

 

 

 

For dogfight purpose this area of Channel is too width - "long" flight times, a 80x80 Km area around Manston - Calais Mark is more convenient, make easy the habitual "strafe the near enemy base".

[THERION]

This! we really dont need more "Premium" stuff. No,thanks

 

IL2 BOX is already an expensive Game. Imho this Sim finally need the MOD option. With the release of a propper SDK,the users will create high quality Maps for the entire community for free.

 

Easy and simple.

 

 

Until now I think the system of standard and premium is good and balanced - you don't get "Überplanes" in the premium version and so people with standard editions won't

be in disadvantage. This is fair and shouldn't be changed. As for payable maps - how are you going to manage this in MP?

 

"IL2 BOX is already an expensive game" - are you serious? Just have a look how pricey DCS is - you almost pay just for one plane for what you get in BOS / BOM or BOK.

And by the way those DCS modules (I repeat it again - pricey!) don't offer a lot of content. And yes, I've got some of them so I know what I'm talking about.

 

As for maps, I prefer historical maps and I don't really like those fictive maps like we had in IL2 1946.

 

Just my mustard.

 

Cheers

Edited July 9, 2017 by Therion

[Jade_Monkey]

The Premium or Collector planes are already a problem. 

 

How so? 

 

If you want it and can afford it, then get it, if not don't. You wont get more kills just because you got a premium plane, it's not pay to win.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Until now I think the system of standard and premium is good and balanced - you don't get "Überplanes" in the premium version and so people with standard editions won't

be in disadvantage. This is fair and shouldn't be changed. As for payable maps - how are you going to manage this in MP?

 

"IL2 BOX is already an expensive game" - are you serious? Just have a look how pricey DCS is - you almost pay just for one plane for what you get in BOS / BOM or BOK.

And by the way those DCS modules (I repeat it again - pricey!) don't offer a lot of content. And yes, I've got some of them so I know what I'm talking about.

 

As for maps, I prefer historical maps and I don't really like those fictive maps like we had in IL2 1946.

 

Just my mustard.

 

Cheers

Agreed. I dont like fictive maps either. Although im no MP player i can see where premium maps can and will be a problem. As a SP player its not a problem if you dont want it dont buy it.

As for DCS not only is the MP experience fractured by the "premium" maps the Normandy purchasers are split by those with and without the asset pack. You really dont want that scenario within this franchise. DCS is becoming a joke within the CFS community dispite the quality of certain airframes.

[Semor76]

As for maps, I prefer historical maps and I don't really like those fictive maps like we had in IL2 1946.

 

You should have a look on the SAS forums.Tonns of historical accurate Maps made by the community.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Am i right in saying that those without bom can still fly over the moscow map im MP? If so your getting premium maps for free anyway.

[CanadaOne]

 

As for maps, I prefer historical maps and I don't really like those fictive maps like we had in IL2 1946.

 

Just my mustard.

 

Cheers

To each his condiment.

 

Whether the map is fictive or not is secondary to whether it is interesting. For my part, I would prefer a fictive interesting map to an accurate desert map with 10,000 square kilometres of flat brown nothingness.

 

Hopefully the Kuban map will cover all bases; historically accurate and with varied terrain and some decent mountains

[THERION]

To each his condiment.

 

Whether the map is fictive or not is secondary to whether it is interesting. For my part, I would prefer a fictive interesting map to an accurate desert map with 10,000 square kilometres of flat brown nothingness.

 

Hopefully the Kuban map will cover all bases; historically accurate and with varied terrain and some decent mountains

 

Kuban will exactly cover your taste and interests, mate... and still be historical as far as we could see in other dev posts...

 

And btw. the desert is not that empty as you may imagine... and it's far from being flat brown.

 

Cheers

[Inzane1]

Hello everybody!

 

With the release of the Spitifre a lot of new people and not so new have become more "common" in the forums. After it success I was thinkg about something like premium planes: premium maps.

 

 

Having new maps and paying for them can be good income for the Developers if they manage to make them worth the work. 

I don´t want to change the systme right now, I mean: I want all the maps to be free in Multiplayer games like it is now but having other options, not really the Ostfront or the pacific also can bring new life to the sim.

 

I was thinking in something in the Western front. Of course not big cities but with the release of Kuban map and the Pacific, I think the "Channel" map can be a good adittion to what we have now and with the new "sea" Technology can be great.

 

I was thinking in something like this:

 

No big cities, great landmarks, lots of sea...

 

With the P40, Spitfire, Gustav and Friederich alongside the 110 a great 1942 Channel map can be made.

 

Of course this is an idea, I hope the Devs can achieve something out of this if they have already not!

Kind Regards

Manu

Premium maps in other games have fragmented the community and eventually killed it. Since Il2 is a small community of hobbyist to begin with it would be suicide.

[Major_Issue]

Premium DLC are great! Look at Battlefield 1, everybody is playing the new maps...oh wait. I found sarcasm.

[LuftManu]

Well, a huge part of the comments didn´t notice(bother to read) that I said the system to be like it is now: No paying for premium maps in MP = No fragmentation

 

These kind of things are focused on SP / campaigns. 

 

Although, if SDK is released, a lot of great content can come too.

 

The name does not represent a "better" level. Just another thing aside from the normal theathers like the planes do.

 

IE: Murmansk map, gets released and with 2 campaigns one for each side. 30$. I am player X and don´t want to pay for it because I am not interesed. I enter in MP and find that WoL has Murmansk map, I dont care because I will be able to enter. Finally I found that I really like the map and also want to help this 3rd party or dev team and finnally end buying it.

 

As I said before this system is great. 3 of my friends bought BOM because of a ride in my 110 near Moscow on our server. The best demo you can get.

 

Kind of this

Edited July 9, 2017 by LF_ManuV

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Premium maps in other games have fragmented the community and eventually killed it. Since Il2 is a small community of hobbyist to begin with it would be suicide.

 

Like all the maps in BOX, you wouldn't have to own the map to fly in it on mp.  I can see how it might expand mp as some would enjoy a different landscape.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well, a huge part of the comments didn´t notice(bother to read) that I said the system to be like it is now: No paying for premium maps in MP = No fragmentation

 

 

These kind of things are focused on SP / campaigns. 

 

Although, if SDK is released, a lot of great content can come too.

 

The name does not represent a "better" level. Just another thing aside from the normal theathers like the planes do.

 

IE: Murmansk map, gets released and with 2 campaigns one for each side. 30$. I am player X and don´t want to pay for it because I am not interesed. I enter in MP and find that WoL has Murmansk map, I dont care because I will be able to enter. Finally I found that I really like the map and also want to help this 3rd party or dev team and finnally end buying it.

 

As I said before this system is great. 3 of my friends bought BOM because of a ride in my 110 near Moscow on our server. The best demo you can get.

 

Kind of this

So.... SP players pay for maps that MP players get for free?

[Finkeren]

So.... SP players pay for maps that MP players get for free?

 

Yep, that's the idea.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Yep, that's the idea.

 

I thought so. It may not fragment the MP community but it will fragment the general community and create quite a bit of hostility if you ask me. Not a good idea

[LuftManu]

I thought so. It may not fragment the MP community but it will fragment the general community and create quite a bit of hostility if you ask me. Not a good idea

You already fragmented my heart saying that

 

Just kidding. It was just an Idea.

[Finkeren]

I thought so. It may not fragment the MP community but it will fragment the general community and create quite a bit of hostility if you ask me. Not a good idea

Why would it? Currently people who don't own, let's say, BoM can play on the Moscow map in MP just fine, but they can't use it in SP and for instance play campaigns etc. I don't see people complain about this.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Why would it? Currently people who don't own, let's say, BoM can play on the Moscow map in MP just fine, but they can't use it in SP and for instance play campaigns etc. I don't see people complain about this.

 

totally different scenario. People pay for BoM and get all the aircraft. Folk who don't buy BoM get just the map in MP. There's no problem with that. If just a map is developed the only folk paying for the development are the SP crowd while the MP crowd get the development for free. 

[Finkeren]

totally different scenario. People pay for BoM and get all the aircraft. Folk who don't buy BoM get just the map in MP. There's no problem with that. If just a map is developed the only folk paying for the development are the SP crowd while the MP crowd get the development for free. 

 

Alright. Make a static campaign to go with the map. Problem solved.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Alright. Make a static campaign to go with the map. Problem solved.

 

Seems like a lot of development for poor sales. May as well give the maps out for free to everybody, sans the campaign. Problem solved.

[Livai]

How so? 

 

If you want it and can afford it, then get it, if not don't. You wont get more kills just because you got a premium plane, it's not pay to win.

 

I am talking about the negative previews caused by the Premium and Collector stuff!!! Compare Standard Version for $49 with the Premium or Collector planes for $20. There is no need to talk more about it. What you think happen if they start with Premium or Collector maps.

 

BTW Premium or Collector maps doesn't make any sense without the suitable planeset for this map. 

 

For me huge nonsense the Premium or Collector maps without the planeset, campaign, story, timeline, whatever is needed to enjoy that map, timeline, the planes, story and campaign.

[FTC_Etherlight]

Let's be real here. Considering the amount of SP content we have right now a premium map that is just to be paid for by SP guys is a tough sell. A really, really tough sell, especially taking into consideration how busy the devs are. That is just not going to happen at all. To make that stuff viable in the sales department, you'd have to involve the MP crowd and as we all pretty much established that would be a big fuck-up.

 

Another point considering the premium stuff we already have. I very much agree with the notion of it being completely optional up to a certain point. Before the A-5 was out, the A-3 premium was the only way to get a non-109 Fighter for the LW, and it's definitely on par with 109's, for some folks even better. I'm not saying that is pay2win, but it's bordering on pay4power.

Now the Yak-1B I consider the only true dickmove the developers ever pulled with the payment model of this game. I don't wanna kick off a performance discussion here, but I don't think there can be any doubt that that thing is the best fighter the VVS has by a mile and it might even stay that way, depending on how the P-39 turns out. Yes, yes, you like the Lagg and it's uber cannon etc.blabla, but looking at performance and overall power? There is just nothing that can hold a candle to it on the VVS side and to put this behind a premium paywall in an already fullpriced game with fullpriced expansions was a dickmove. I also like the La-5 very much, which is competitive, but definitely worse. Also a premium btw, which was for the longest time the only VVS fighter that could hope to catch a 109 on the deck running.

 

So yes, premium is completely optional, but let's not pretent that you don't have very real advantages in online gameplay if you pay up those sweet sweet premium dollars. The game is very, very expensive as it is, especially if you want to fly diverse, fun stuff in MP that can also compete. I don't mind that, not at all. The game has provided me with tons of fun and hours of entertainment, and it will most likely continue to do so in the forseeable future. But let's not necesarily find even more methods to drive the overall pricing into the 4 figures too soon, mhkay?

Edited July 9, 2017 by JG4_Etherlight

[DD_Arthur]

Would support the idea although Jason already sayed that it isn't as straight forward to convert the RoF channel map for BoS as it seems.

 

The RoF channel map would seem to present some sort of opportunity.  They have all the basic data and there was limited economic development between the wars; ie no new railways laid, no new towns, etc.

 

The 'plane set could now construe some sort of mid war channel battle scenario too.  A Hawker Hurricane would serve equally well here and on the Moscow map.  The arrival of the A20 - or Douglas Boston as the RAF called it - would be very interesting.  Even the P39's very limited service with the RAF took place here.

 

It would be a story of RAF fighter sweeps and bomber escort,  LW jabo attacks on the coastal towns of southern England and anti-shipping operations by both sides.

 

 

 

However, I wouldn't want to see any of this interfering with the development of the Battle of Midway. 

[Mmaruda]

On the one hand, it would be a good idea for the devs to make some moneys, but maps take a lot of effort to make. On the other hand, since BOS is kind of lacking in the SP department (less and less with scripted campaigns but still far from the old faithful 1946), the MP community would take a huge hit. Part of the beauty of BOS is that even if you don't own say Moscow, you can still jump into WOL and play on that map just using the planes you have access to.

 

While the majority would probably jump onto the bandwagon and throw money at the monitor for new maps, there still will be a few people who are short on cash, and that will limit their possibilities. Considering that with online, people often play with a Squadron or just a bunch of friend, what if not everyone has the map? It would be a problem for squads who tend to fly together. I don't really think this will be a good idea in the long run.

 

So far the business model is good. It's good value for money and nobody is left out of any aspect of the game regardless of their wallet, and eventually people like what they see and buy the content when they can afford it. Let's not spoil that. Fracturing the online community has killed a lot of games in different genres, it would be a bad idea to let that possibility into IL-2.

 

Again, people might agree with me or not, but at best this is a controversial question, and controversy is unnecessary, if we want to have a healthy community. Jason and the team are on the right track now and should remain focused. Let's not mess that up with controversial ideas.