Spitfire engine control management

[clouddancer]

I am having problem with the engine management of the spitfire, it keeps overheating

Also the controls I have mapped for radiator and oil cooler don't work on the Spit for me, they work for other aircraft.

[Ribbon]

Water rads were assignes to rctrl+(plus)/minus.

It is five position; 20%,40%,60%,80 & 100%.

No overheat after that when throttle 75-77%, rpm up to 72%......this is for continious mode. Or keep rpm bellow 2700.

Oil rads are automatic

Edited July 6, 2017 by redribbon

[-SF-Disarray]

what do we know about the engine management itself? Like RPM and throttle and all that. Is there any info or a video posted somewhere?

[LukeFF]

what do we know about the engine management itself? Like RPM and throttle and all that. Is there any info or a video posted somewhere?

Look on the Specification tab. All the info you need is right there.

[clouddancer]

Water rads were assignes to rctrl+(plus)/minus.

It is five position; 20%,40%,60%,80 & 100%.

No overheat after that when throttle 75-77%, rpm up to 72%......this is for continious mode. Or keep rpm bellow 2700.

Oil rads are automatic

Thank you.

I my game these are the default controls for the Bf 109/110 water radiator says nothing about spitfire.

Why can't we have one set of controls for engine management

[-SF-Disarray]

Look on the Specification tab. All the info you need is right there.

 

I know the info is all there in techno talk for the plane but I was wondering if someone has translated it into English. You know, like what RPM % and throttle settings are the best for optimal flight and all that.

[StG77_Kondor]

I know the info is all there in techno talk for the plane but I was wondering if someone has translated it into English. You know, like what RPM % and throttle settings are the best for optimal flight and all that.

Next you'll be asking him to  aim for you .

 

It's all there in the technical tab. The throttle/rpm % settings that are 'best' will change depending on altitude and other factors. It's best to learn how to read your instruments and keep your engine within the specified specs listed in that technical tab. That way you can always be sure you're squeezing out every last bit of power you can at any given situation. 

[-SF-Disarray]

Could you aim for me? That might be a great help!

 

I was playing around in the plane a little earlier and couldn't find any gauge that seemed to correspond to the engine being in combat or emergency mode. Which one should I be looking at?

[FuriousMeow]

There isn't anything that indicates mode except the combination of RPM and Manifold Pressure which you need to keep an eye on to keep the engine running optimally, and also so you don't blow it by running it at high settings too long.

[-SF-Disarray]

Ok, I just thought I was overlooking a manifold pressure gauge or something. I guess I'll just have to slam my head against this particular brick wall until I figure it out then.

[Finkeren]

The manifold pressure gauge in the Spit is the one that indicates boost and goes up to +16.

[clouddancer]

Look on the Specification tab. All the info you need is right there.

 

And where would I find this

[-SF-Disarray]

if you open up the briefing page, hit O by default, it will be the right hand tab on the right hand panel, where you find the mission info on multiplayer servers. I think it says specifications but I can't recall for sure just now.

 

Ah, that is what that gauge is. I thought it was some kind of supercharger indicator. Thanks for the info Finkeren

Edited July 6, 2017 by Disarray

[Finkeren]

The boost gauge is my favourite feature of the Spit cockpit. So much easier to read and remember the values for than a standard MP gauge measuring mm/Hg.

Btw: REMEMBER REMEMBER when using WEP to "unlock" the throttle by pressing the "boost" button (same as the one used on I-16 and La-5) This will allow you to go to +16 boost. Otherwise it will be locked at +12 and you won't get the full effect of the WEP while still eating away at the time limit.

[LukeFF]

The Spitfire will run at 16 lbs boost regardless of throttle position, once boost is engaged.

[-SF-Disarray]

Ah, the boost button, that explains it. In my shakedown flight I was playing with throttle and RPM mixtures and noticed that gauge was fairly static, that is why I wrote it off as unimportant at the time. Knowing that there is an unlock on the engine, so to speak, makes more sense.

[Finkeren]

The Spitfire will run at 16 lbs boost regardless of throttle position, once boost is engaged.

Good to know. I thought the throttle had to be fully forward as well, didn't think to test if this was actually the case.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Yeah, it is a bit weird in that once you hit the boost cut-off the boost stays maxed.

 

The engine-propeller combination is controlled by the throttle, the automatic pressure limiter switch, the propeller control unit and the mixture control assembly. The throttle is linked to the automatic supercharger: when the throttle is set to any position from 1/3 to full, it sets a pressure supported by the supercharger from -7 to +12 pounds per square inch (PSI) relative to one atmosphere pressure. So 760 mmHg boost equals to 1 ATA and to +0 position on the British boost indicator. The automatic pressure limiter can be turned off to maintain constant +16 boost regardless of the throttle position. The automatic mixture controller maintains the optimal mixture setting if its control level is in the forward position or leaned mixture to save fuel if its control level is in the back position. The mixture control system has been removed on later Spitfires.

[clouddancer]

if you open up the briefing page, hit O by default, it will be the right hand tab on the right hand panel, where you find the mission info on multiplayer servers. I think it says specifications but I can't recall for sure just now.

 

Ah, that is what that gauge is. I thought it was some kind of supercharger indicator. Thanks for the info Finkeren

I am blind, been playing this game since it came out and never noticed that. Thank you.

[Jade_Monkey]

I am blind, been playing this game since it came out and never noticed that. Thank you.

To be fair it wasnt there from the beginning but it's been there for several patches now. Nice addition imho.

[Finkeren]

To be fair it wasnt there from the beginning but it's been there for several patches now. Nice addition imho.

Critically important I think.

[Ralston66]

Hi,

 

For me I set the prop pitch to 85 and radiator to 60. I then fly at below 90% throttle for combat speed, but when need extra I just shove the throttle to 100% and hit the boost. Not sure if this is best way, but I am still learning the plane.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Finkeren]

Hi,

 

For me I set the prop pitch to 85 and radiator to 60. I then fly at below 90% throttle for combat speed, but when need extra I just shove the throttle to 100% and hit the boost. Not sure if this is best way, but I am still learning the plane.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck!

You should slam the rpm up to 100% as well when doing WEP. Will be a benefit in a climb.

[Sokol1]

Yeah, it is a bit weird in that once you hit the boost cut-off the boost stays maxed.

 

The engine-propeller combination is controlled by the throttle, the automatic pressure limiter switch, the propeller control unit and the mixture control assembly. The throttle is linked to the automatic supercharger: when the throttle is set to any position from 1/3 to full, it sets a pressure supported by the supercharger from -7 to +12 pounds per square inch (PSI) relative to one atmosphere pressure. So 760 mmHg boost equals to 1 ATA and to +0 position on the British boost indicator. The automatic pressure limiter can be turned off to maintain constant +16 boost regardless of the throttle position. The automatic mixture controller maintains the optimal mixture setting if its control level is in the forward position or leaned mixture to save fuel if its control level is in the back position. The mixture control system has been removed on later Spitfires.

 

Pilot Notes (AP 1565E) Va, Vb and Vc is a bit vague about "boost cut-out" operation:

 

 

http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs-documentviewer.php?id=2520

Edited July 8, 2017 by Sokol1

[JimTM]

FYI, aside from the "Specifications" tab in the game, you can find specifications and operating notes for each plane here.

Edited July 7, 2017 by JimTM

[Matt]

You can also find the specifications when your click on "Profile" in the main menu and then select the plane (doesn't work in offline mode though).

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Worth a read... https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7529

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Hi,

 

For me I set the prop pitch to 85 and radiator to 60. I then fly at below 90% throttle for combat speed, but when need extra I just shove the throttle to 100% and hit the boost. Not sure if this is best way, but I am still learning the plane.

 

Hope this helps. Good luck!

This is what I've been doing, but with pitch at 90.

 

Radiator I keep as low as possible, and bump it up a notch if I get the warning from technochat. If it doesn't go away, I give it another notch.

Edited July 7, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr

[Gort]

By default, the aircraft should start up with the water radiator fully open. In fact, all aircraft should start up with the radiators fully open, unless you are flying in the middle of the Russian Winter.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Victory205

[pilotpierre]

By default, the aircraft should start up with the water radiator fully open. In fact, all aircraft should start up with the radiators fully open, unless you are flying in the middle of the Russian Winter.

Agree

[54th_Glitter_]

Regarding fuel mixture it is not clear to me.

 

It says: " The automatic mixture controller maintains the optimal mixture setting if its control level is in the forward position or leaned mixture to save fuel if its control level is in the back position. The mixture control system has been removed on later Spitfires." 

 

Does that mean that lever forward position --> 0% fuel mixture -->automatic mode ON?.

And lever back position --> 100% fuel mixture --> Save fuel mode ON?

Does it works this way or has been removed in the spitfire in the game (always working in manual mode)?

[Matt]

It's always automatic. But the text is not correct, the forward position is automatic lean and the back position is automatic rich.

[54th_Glitter_]

Thank you Matt, it makes sense now.

 

Then just as sugestion to devs: when automatic lean is working the "adjust fuel mixture" message should not appear continously and fixed on screen. I think just one message when enable automatic lean would be enough. 

[JtD]

The automatic pressure limiter can be turned off to maintain constant +16 boost regardless of the throttle position.

I don't get it. The abc-cut off substitutes suction pressure for boosted pressure in the auto-control, essentially suggesting the control to be flying at a very high altitude. If the abc-cut off worked as described here, it would imply that at high altitude throttle position would be meaningless even with abc enabled.

 

What it really did, afaik & based on various Merlin manuals, was rendering the automatic altitude compensation useless, basically giving the pilot direct control over boost the way we have it on the P-40E right now. With later engines (such as Merlin 45 and 46 in the games time frame), the direct control was limited to 18/16/14/12 lbs (depending on engine) by inserting blinds with bleed holes in the initially fully open pipes. This way certain boost pressures could not be exceeded no matter what.

 

Imho, what we should have when using the abc-cut off, is P-40E behaviour limited to 16lbs boost - so the upper range of the throttle would be useless at low altitudes when 16lbs are reached, but throttle should directly control boost with lower settings or at higher altitudes.

 

Haven't had a chance to try the updated game, so maybe it's a misunderstanding on my part. However, if it is not, is there a source anywhere that confirms the way it appears to be modelled now?

[216th_Jordan]

The boost gauge is my favourite feature of the Spit cockpit. So much easier to read and remember the values for than a standard MP gauge measuring mm/Hg.

Btw: REMEMBER REMEMBER when using WEP to "unlock" the throttle by pressing the "boost" button (same as the one used on I-16 and La-5) This will allow you to go to +16 boost. Otherwise it will be locked at +12 and you won't get the full effect of the WEP while still eating away at the time limit.

 

But boost time is 5 minutes then instead of 3 IIRC.

[unreasonable]

@JtD  The pilot's notes state " ....+16 lb/sq in boost is obtained by operating the boost control cut-out."

 

Ie you cannot get 16lb unless you press the red lever.

 

What is not clear in the Pilot's notes is whether you can have less than 16 lb, if the lever is pressed.

Edited July 8, 2017 by unreasonable

[JtD]

Yes, but the Merlin manual is pretty clear (imho) that you can have less when the lever is pressed. Like I said, it overrides the abc, it does not override the throttle lever.

 

What the pilot does by moving the throttle lever is opening the throttle valve. What the abc does is possibly not allowing the valve to open as wide as selected by the lever position. Overriding abc means no interference from the abc, which means a direct response to change in throttle lever position.

[Matt]

You can still control and reduce the boost with the throttle lever.

[BlitzPig_EL]

JtD has a valid observation.

 

I too think the boost cut out is not properly modeled.   In CloD when the cut out is activated you control the boost pressure via the throttle plate position, so that if you are at low throttle, you have low boost, not 16psi all the time regardless of throttle position, and my reading tells me this is the correct way it works, not as an instant max throttle button.

 

The cut out allows you to access the predetermined maximum boost, via throttle position, it doesn't just set it there for you.

[unreasonable]

You can still control and reduce the boost with the throttle lever.

 

You are right - I have just checked and yes if you press the tit you get 16lbs, then if you cut throttle, the boost drops to zero.

 

Incorrect information in a post somewhere? Change in a hotfix?  Anyway, please check yourself (I mean people who think the modeling is wrong) - pressing the tit does not leave you at 16lbs whatever you do with the throttle.

Edited July 8, 2017 by unreasonable