Free to Play Version, or Demo Version.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Bullshit. you'd get the Demo to see wether the Game works for your Setup, how to Set yourself up,and if you are up to the Game. Lets Plays offer very little Beginners Information.

 

I came into Il-2 BoX when I started flying IRL so I had little trouble, but a helpful, Instructional Demo would have greatly accelerated getting some of my Friends into the Game.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Bullshit.

 

-snip-

 

Lets Plays offer very little Beginners Information.

 

-snip-

 

Oooh - so edgy!

 

Nah, that's measurably untrue. Let's Plays are effective marketing on their own and its commonplace to spend time watching gameplay footage before investing in a product.

 

I still stand by what I said - a demo isn't going to magically draw in more people because it doesn't change the market being pandered to.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Thatsnot quite true. At least for this genre. Remember back when many people complained about "wobbling" and called some planes out for being "unflyable" in their reviews.

 

Relying on comunity product advertisement is cheap and dangerous if things get out of controll. With a free demo everyone would have the opportunity to check it himself instead of takimg a random ouTubers opinion for granted and draw his own conclusion - sth that is very important to people hesitant to spend 80$ on a product that might disappoint them.

 

Also it would help getting rid of the bad image of MP as being "dead" (compared to AAA titles).

 

Since Jason is not keen to repeat the RoF model a few free weekends with limit content per year might do. Shouldnt be difficult with the promo code system.

 

If anybody has a better idea of how to attract players he can gladly share his suggestion.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

For a 5-20€ Game a Demo is unnecessary. But BoX is a big Purchase for the younger Members. A new Membef of ZG 26 is the best example for that.He didn't want part with that amount of Money and potentially dislike it.

Edited July 3, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

You could even make a 1,99 to 4,95$ Tryout/Mini/Showcase Version with LaGG-3 and Stuka, Tutorial and Showcase Missions and MP Access. As Wings of Noobery shows even 50$ aren't a useful Idiot Filter.

[Livai]

Instructional Demo would have greatly accelerated getting some of my Friends into the Game.

 

You could do this step, you know!

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

A new Membef of ZG 26 is the best example for that.He didn't want part with that amount of Money and potentially dislike it.

 

Than why is he in a combat flight simulator squadron and (apparently not) playing combat flight simulators?

 

$50 is less than buying any of the multitudes of hokey, AAA titles that flood the market every year. If that's too hot for somebody who claims to have an interest in the genre, than I don't think they're really that interested.

[Jade_Monkey]

We don't need to chase people with Demos, Free Weekends, sales, whatever! The right people - the ones who really belong to this game will come to us. And stay.

Wrong

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

 

You could do this step, you know!

 

No worries, lots of guys have already done that - the part they're not mentioning or giving credit to (and the part Stuka seems to be ignoring) is that guys like Requiem, Sheriff, Zebra, Bismark, Karaya, Mr. X, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. (literally etc.) have done more for drawing people who care about the hobby in to the hobby than a demo would have.

 

A demo (especially an MP demo) is a bit like being thrown in to general population in an American prison.

[Jade_Monkey]

This game already gets very little coverage, they don't need to shoot themselves in the foot by staying secluded from the larger community.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Wrong

 

No, you are!

 

See what I did there?

This game already gets very little coverage, they don't need to shoot themselves in the foot by staying secluded from the larger community.

 

What larger community?

 

DCS and IL-2 are not a "larger community."

Cliffs and BOS are hardly a "larger community."

WT and DCS/Cliffs/BOS are definitely not a "larger community."

 

Different communities, different markets. And that is the overarching theme here.

-snip-

 

We don't need to chase people with Demos, Free Weekends, sales, whatever! The right people - the ones who really belong to this game will come to us. And stay.

 

+1

Edited July 3, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

It isn't our buisness to judge potebtial costumers. In the end all that matters is sales and every measure working towards that goal is a good one.

 

There is no reason for the devs not to target the low earner market (students, trainees) as well. Not to mention that 50$ can be quite a serious investment for a piece of software depending on where you live.

 

If I was to discover BoS again without any knowledgeable background I'd make sure that it runs flawless and I can get years of entertainment out of it before spending that money on the game and additional equipment. Thats pretty hard to determine from a 15 min 0815 game review video.

 

And,as Klaus already mentioned, this comunity has seen the worst behaviour already despite being pricy. On the other hand I can tell you a number of friendly and competent freeplayers I've meat in RoF who keep the MP alive even after all those years of degression.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

 

You could do this step, you know!

 

Than why is he in a combat flight simulator squadron and (apparently not) playing combat flight simulators?

 

$50 is less than buying any of the multitudes of hokey, AAA titles that flood the market every year. If that's too hot for somebody who claims to have an interest in the genre, than I don't think they're really that interested.

Well, a Long Story, we play together a lot, he is a Life Long Friend after all, but he was afraid not to meet our Standards, purchasing the other Equipment as well etc. I gifted him my old TrackIR and he played on a used stick for some time. 

And I'm not a Rich Person myself and I don't want to outspend my Real World Flying Money with Digital Stuff. 

 

The Lot of us are in our early 20s, University Students with little Funds to Spend. And these amounts of Money are just an unecessary strain on a Relationship. 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

Thats pretty hard to determine from a 15 min 0815 game review video.

 

-snip-

 

It's really not though and that's the issue that I'm taking up.

 

Its a simple equation and it goes like this in nearly every case as a prospective purchaser:

• User #1 contemplating purchase: I like combat flight simulators. I've played other combat flight simulators or general aviation simulators. I take the genre seriously. I have time to learn the procedures. I like to navigate. I have time to fly some missions. This is a hobby to me. I am actually interested in aerial combat.
• User #2 contemplating purchase: Airplanes are cool. I'm an expert in WW2 - I beat World at War on Veteran. I like playing video games with my friends. I have an allowance, I'm not afraid of the grind. I don't want a joystick. I play with a mouse. "SB is so realistic." I use icons and I don't know/care how to read a compass. I don't have time for missions, I like to get in, get out and play some MP with my friends.

 

• User #1 on purchase: This fits my interests just like I thought! I joined a squad and fly missions on TAW. I'm getting an extension for my Warthog! I'm learning level bombing and dead reckoning! 10/10 purchase.
• User #2 on purchase: Airplanes are cool but I have no idea what's going on. What's a mixture? Why won't my Bf109 trim work? Mouse controls suck - not everybody can afford a $30 joystick! Taking off is too hard! They should make it easier. All of the populated servers don't have icons and I can't see anything! I don't have time for an hour long mission where I don't get ace in a day! 

 

• User #1 review: An excellent simulator! Detailed flight models! Awesome damage models! Fully recommended!
• User #2 review: Bad mouse controls! Game is too hard! WT is F2P, has way more planes and is more fun! Don't buy!

 

With a single 15 minute Youtube video, User #1 and User #2 will be able to make a pretty accurate determination on where they fit on that spectrum.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[Jade_Monkey]

What larger community?

 

DCS and IL-2 are not a "larger community."

Cliffs and BOS are hardly a "larger community."

WT and DCS/Cliffs/BOS are definitely not a "larger community."

Different communities, different markets. And that is the overarching theme here.

 

Larger community of people who like playing games.

 

Your own definition of larger only encompassing DCS and WT is exactly my point, you are thinking too narrowly.

If you only expect people who already play those games to join IL2, this project will be dead before you know it.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Jade_Monkey

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

you are thinking too narrowly.

 

 

-snip-

 

No, I'm really not. I'm thinking in terms of consumer bases.

 

The "larger gaming community" doesn't own a flight simulator because they don't care, don't have the time and aren't interested and a demo isn't going to change that.

 

Gonna agree to disagree going forward - my opinion on this isn't going to change until there is a large cultural shift in gaming.

 

That and I didn't spend $400+ on 777's products so somebody else could have something for free. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[ShamrockOneFive]

I think offering up a single aircraft, say the LaGG-3, as a free to play option seems great to me. Make things limited but open it up so people can test out their equipment and systems. If they are interested they will buy more and if not... not. Undecided if they should get into multiplayer with it or not but those are small things to work out.

 

The more potential for people to buy in the better. Everything else is moot in my mind... though points have been well made.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

LaGG-3

And Stuka. It's Iconic and not an MP Free Pass like a 109. 

 

It's really not though and that's the issue that I'm taking up.

 

Its a simple equation and it goes like this in nearly every case as a prospective purchaser:

• User #1 contemplating purchase: I like combat flight simulators. I've played other combat flight simulators or general aviation simulators. I take the genre seriously. I have time to learn the procedures. I like to navigate. I have time to fly some missions. This is a hobby to me. I am actually interested in aerial combat.
• User #2 contemplating purchase: Airplanes are cool. I'm an expert in WW2 - I beat World at War on Veteran. I like playing video games with my friends. I have an allowance, I'm not afraid of the grind. I don't want a joystick. I play with a mouse. "SB is so realistic." I use icons and I don't know/care how to read a compass. I don't have time for missions, I like to get in, get out and play some MP with my friends.

 

• User #1 on purchase: This fits my interests just like I thought! I joined a squad and fly missions on TAW. I'm getting an extension for my Warthog! I'm learning level bombing and dead reckoning! 10/10 purchase.
• User #2 on purchase: Airplanes are cool but I have no idea what's going on. What's a mixture? Why won't my Bf109 trim work? Mouse controls suck - not everybody can afford a $30 joystick! Taking off is too hard! They should make it easier. All of the populated servers don't have icons and I can't see anything! I don't have time for an hour long mission where I don't get ace in a day! 

 

• User #1 review: An excellent simulator! Detailed flight models! Awesome damage models! Fully recommended!
• User #2 review: Bad mouse controls! Game is too hard! WT is F2P, has way more planes and is more fun! Don't buy!

 

With a single 15 minute Youtube video, User #1 and User #2 will be able to make a pretty accurate determination on where they fit on that spectrum.

Ohhh;

 

 

There are so many more Characters in Play. 

You have People who come for

• the Flying, they buy the Game because they were always interested in flying these Machines and this is the closest they may ever get. They are the ones who tend to fly the Objectives for the Missions Sake. They are familiar with all Types and will normally instruct the Noobies.
• the Aircraft, they may have seen these Machines at some Point and were fascinated. They will fly their Favourite Type a lot, some of them are Peaceful, the others are Mustang or Fw190 Fans. 
• the History, who come for the Historical Aspects of the Game. They want the WWII Experience and Immersion. They are the Mission Builders on the War Servers

And then there are

• The Normies/Nationalists/Idiots who come for the Myths and Legends who've seen too much Red Tails, suck at flying, leave a bad Review and Leave
• The Casual Gamers who just enjoy the Game, fly it for Fun and are generally Peaceful, they are the Silent Majority who generate the most Funds
• The Competitive/Autistic Gamers who make Wings of Noobery incredibly Toxic Cancer and write the Bad Reviews. 

(Disclaimer, I'm not being disrespectful to actually Autistic People, but those Cancerous, Self Entitled, Self Important little Pricks who can't take a Joke without throwing a Hissy Fit)

Edited July 3, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Jason_Williams]

Closing this thread. When I can make it possible we will have a free demo of some sort.

 

Jason