AAA Spoils Gameplay on TAW

[SharpeXB]

The accuracy and number of AAA units on TAW just spoils the gameplay competely. It's not an air combat sim anymore but a single player vs AI AAA guns game.

- There's no point in attacking any targets, you'll get shot down.

- There's no point in defending targets because the AAA will shoot down your opponent.

Flying anywhere near target is suicidal so you're left with trying to encounter the enemy over vacant territory which is sorta hapless. In order to overwhelm the AI AAA players would have to fly in groups larger than are ever seen online, which is an unrealistic expectation given that the attendance on MP is so low to begin with.

TAW would be better with the AAA set to more reasonable levels.

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

Understandable frustration. Perhaps the servers AA AI accuracy should be adjusted down a bit. It's up to them.

 

The AI for the AA can be set to 'High, Normal or Low'... with low being the least accurate.

[Barnacles]

I don't mind the close range stuff. It's just when you get a direct hit on a fighter from 5k away from an artillery shell on regular occasions which I consider a bit over the top.

[HR_Tofolo]

AAA is hard if you're attacking alone. That's the best thing from TAW, that it forces teamwork in order to succeed and to survive.

[-SF-Disarray]

Barnacles, under what conditions are you flying when you get hit from 5km? If you are rolling and turning and changing altitude, then yes, getting hit by flack consistently is a bit odd. If you are flying in a strait line at a fixed speed then I'd be supersized if you don't get hit with some regularity. In past iterations of TAW I've flown under AA bombardment without taking a hit by simply maneuvering a little and working in concert with other planes. If you make it hard for the AA, even just a little more hard than flying strait and level, the AA is only a small problem.

[Thad]

AAA is hard if you're attacking alone. That's the best thing from TAW, that it forces teamwork in order to succeed and to survive.

This may indeed be the intent of the server managers.

[Barnacles]

Barnacles, under what conditions are you flying when you get hit from 5km?

High and fast enough to make a hit very improbable. Not straight and level either. My plane just exploded.

[Guest deleted@103832]

The AAA can be beat, and it has been a challenging and interesting time this past year to experiment with different approaches on how to avoid and/or eliminate them, both as a lone wulf and with a group, as the AAA configurations have changed over time. I hope Kathon doesn't change a thing. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by deleted@103832

[Retnek]

The AAA can be beat, and it has been a challenging and interesting time this past year to experiment with different approaches... I hope Kathon doesn't change a thing. 

Hm, this way you make a game of it. Seen the videos, nicely done and that way it works often to get away alive.

 

  But it's still a problem for all the virtual pilots expecting a realistic air war simulation. At the moment a widespread problem, most of the online-servers present this completely overdone Super-AAA. Especially the light AA opens fire much too early hammering away with radar guided precision up to 3 km - after a plane that already has passed by! Experienced light AA-gun-crews in WW2 opened up below 1 km and - under favourable conditions after swinging the gun around - sometimes choose to spend ONE magazine for the planes tail.

 The present AAA-setup on most servers might be useful to enforce an intended type of team-gameplay. But for me having the reports of WW2 in mind the wonder-AAA ruins immersion.

[SharpeXB]

Really I think the goal for online play should be player vs player and not player vs AI

The super accurate AA basically interferes with pvp action. This isn't a real war, it's simulation but players want to go online to game with each other not to fight it out with AI ground guns. The concept behind TAW makes it an interesting and otherwise good server. But the AA spoils the whole game.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

After all of our previous arguments it is really hard to not troll you about things being too difficult and too much like real life in a flight sim.

[Tuesday]

Fly smarter and the AAA probably won't kill you.

 

Dive in from high up, keep moving around, and stay fast, and you will get out of there just fine.*

 

HvB's videos don't only apply to tanks.  Stay smart about attacking any objective.

 

*Or with less damage than you probably should have.

[Barnacles]

The AAA can be beat, and it has been a challenging and interesting time this past year to experiment with different approaches on how to avoid and/or eliminate them, both as a lone wulf and with a group, as the AAA configurations have changed over time. I hope Kathon doesn't change a thing.

Your video on aaa in TAW changed my opinion on the server. I really like the challenge now I understand what tactics to use, and I agree that, from a gamey aspect at least, it should not be changed.

[SharpeXB]

After all of our previous arguments it is really hard to not troll you about things being too difficult and too much like real life in a flight sim.

The one thing that's not like reality in a sim is the number of players. This talk about teamwork doesn't consider that most times there are only 6-8 people on each side online. The low attendance on TAW probably reflects the topic above. WWII aircraft hardly never flew in such small groups.

I don't mind difficult. It would be great if there was some good variety of servers out there. Looking at TAW I can tell why WoL gets all the players though.

Fly smarter and the AAA probably won't kill you.

 

*Or with less damage than you probably should have.

I actually passed the Combat Qualification Course for the A-10C in DCS. So I know the threat avoidance tactics. The AAA in TAW is more dangerous than a radar aimed ZSU

[HR_Tumu]

 

For me some objectives need more AAA....  Its too easy atack airfields and factories at medium level.

 

[Tuesday]

I actually passed the Combat Qualification Course for the A-10C in DCS. So I know the threat avoidance tactics. The AAA in TAW is more dangerous than a radar aimed ZSU

 

All this suggests to me is that you do not maneuvre over target, nor are you moving fast enough.  And that perhaps you're more focused on killing other things in the target before killing the AAA.  Watch the tracers coming at you and you can pretty easily avoid them.

 

If you want to attack with your Stuka, you need to climb higher, and drop from higher up.   Don't dive all the way to the deck just to drop.

[HR_Tumu]

Last night, 2 lagg 3 manage to kill 7 AAA on a tank colmn, its true, we need made 2  atack rounds  due a damage recived,... but still alive. After AAA was killed, il2 can kill tanks more safelty.

[Major_Issue]

"[...] spoils the gameplay completly [...]"

 

I flew my 36h in this campaign now and did my fair share of ground attaking. It might get sweaty from time to time but it's not even close to "gamebreaking" AAA. One drags, the other kills. Like for every other bit (except maybe transports...) you just don't have to fly alone. 
But sure, dull the AAA down 'cause people can't kill whole columns alone. 

 

Although the bigger 85mm AAA cover can be very nasty or just snipe you it's further from "spoiling" anything than germany from the endsieg in '45.

You got sniped? Well, in the end of the day it's RNG and sometimes AAA does it's job.

[SharpeXB]

Again, this is all just making MP into a player vs AI game. Kinda misses the whole point of multiplayer. It should be about players defending targets and not the AI.

Edited June 30, 2017 by SharpeXB

[Tuesday]

Again, this is all just making MP into a player vs AI game. Kinda misses the whole point of multiplayer. It should be about players defending targets and not the AI.

 

Sounds like you just want undefended targets during the low-pop hours of North American evenings...

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Again, this is all just making MP into a player vs AI game. Kinda misses the whole point of multiplayer. It should be about players defending targets and not the AI.

 

 

I understand your perspective.  But I fly exclusively ground attack and exclusively MP.  I focus on the battle at hand, the force dispositions on the map and how to do the job of supporting friendly ground forces and destroying the enemy, ways to be clever and find targets of opportunity.  AAA has always been the primary foe of the assault pilot in reality, always, it still is and probably always will be.  Frankly I don't think of the guys flying fighters on the other team as my primary focus.  At that point I'd just be willing prey, something I already find depressing given how for every ground attack pilot there are a million wannabe fighter aces to try and shoot me down and high-five after.  So my point is, ground attack needs to be interesting on its own and not just a slightly different arena for me to get raped by 109s. 

 

My group and I haven't flown TAW, at least not yet, prefer DED Expert, so maybe the TAW AAA is crazy superhuman laser accurate and if so I would feel penalized for flying ground attack there.  I can only speak to what I look for as someone who spends a lot of time going up against AAA.

[DickDong]

I'm assuming this AAA skill was a balance effect added based on dudes taking the map in the middle of the night by themselves?

[Herne]

I like it, it's dangerous. This is my first campaign on TAW and I have done a fair bit of ground attack. Initially I was bombing depot's in Stuka's solo. I don't think I ever got away unharmed, but as often as not. i did get away.
 

These days I prefer a JU88. I bombed a depot last night from 6k. Don't think flak has ever damaged my JU88 at high altitudes, but I'm pretty sure I have heard shrapnel bouncing of the fuselage

 

[Pharoah]

I raised this on the TAW thread. I've had 3 flights so far in the BF110 all diving from up to 3000m and each time I lost a wing about 3-5 secs into the dive. Its a bit overdone. Part of the issue is theres not enough targets, but i understand why (refer to the TAW thread for responses from the admins which is awesome). Its a difficult balancing act however as I'm usually on when the server is empty, there's really no other option but to play on another server (there's enough choice). The front line should have LOTS of targets eg. trucks, tanks, vehicle convoys, gun emplacements, artillery, trains, depots, shipping (both sailing and docked/anchored), but there isn't. Unfortunately fps becomes an issue. Then we can have more lightly defended targets vs only a few heavily defended targets. 

 

The issue i have is, i only have a limited amount of time to play and starting up and getting the a/c to altitude already chews up time...then to die straight off the bat 3 times gets a tad bit frustrating, esp when flying by yourself. Thats when i go 'bugger it, I'll go to the WoL server' or something which doesn't help the TAW server. I love the concept of being part of a war and having my stats tracked. 

[Dutchvdm]

I raised this on the TAW thread. I've had 3 flights so far in the BF110 all diving from up to 3000m and each time I lost a wing about 3-5 secs into the dive. Its a bit overdone. Part of the issue is theres not enough targets, but i understand why (refer to the TAW thread for responses from the admins which is awesome). Its a difficult balancing act however as I'm usually on when the server is empty, there's really no other option but to play on another server (there's enough choice). The front line should have LOTS of targets eg. trucks, tanks, vehicle convoys, gun emplacements, artillery, trains, depots, shipping (both sailing and docked/anchored), but there isn't. Unfortunately fps becomes an issue. Then we can have more lightly defended targets vs only a few heavily defended targets. 

 

The issue i have is, i only have a limited amount of time to play and starting up and getting the a/c to altitude already chews up time...then to die straight off the bat 3 times gets a tad bit frustrating, esp when flying by yourself. Thats when i go 'bugger it, I'll go to the WoL server' or something which doesn't help the TAW server. I love the concept of being part of a war and having my stats tracked. 

 

Try Random Expert +. It has less AAA but not the normal/easy settings of WOL.

 

Grt M

[Guest deleted@103832]

 

 

I raised this on the TAW thread. I've had 3 flights so far in the BF110 all diving from up to 3000m and each time I lost a wing about 3-5 secs into the dive. Its a bit overdone. Part of the issue is theres not enough targets, but i understand why (refer to the TAW thread for responses from the admins which is awesome). Its a difficult balancing act however as I'm usually on when the server is empty, there's really no other option but to play on another server (there's enough choice). The front line should have LOTS of targets eg. trucks, tanks, vehicle convoys, gun emplacements, artillery, trains, depots, shipping (both sailing and docked/anchored), but there isn't. Unfortunately fps becomes an issue. Then we can have more lightly defended targets vs only a few heavily defended targets.    The issue i have is, i only have a limited amount of time to play and starting up and getting the a/c to altitude already chews up time...then to die straight off the bat 3 times gets a tad bit frustrating, esp when flying by yourself. Thats when i go 'bugger it, I'll go to the WoL server' or something which doesn't help the TAW server. I love the concept of being part of a war and having my stats tracked. 

 

 

If you see me on TAW, hit me up - I will show you how to lone wulf and live to tell the tale. 

[Pharoah]

thanks mate, I might have to!!