The wobbling issue and the future updates

[pilotpierre]

I watched the video and here's what happened. I found the music delightful. I had to get up out of my seat and start dancing. I'm not sure the dance has a name but I think I'm going to call it, "The Wobble".

Well said.

Edited June 25, 2017 by pilotpierre

[MadisonV44]

IMHO wobbling at this point is a direct ROF FM heritage.

Seems it has not been adapted to warbirds structure, power and weight.

 

It only make sense for a small plane in the trail of an A380  or maybe extreme pre-stalling situation 

[Stig]

handful have actually flown ww2 planes irl, and in combat at that!

 

 

 

I would guess less  than a handfull.

[ZachariasX]

Wouldn't the pilot be able to detect the gyroscopic precession and experience this as what could be termed "wobbling", even if it was very slight?

You do very well notice that, even in planes with far less than 1200 hp. The thing you notice is that when you pull up, you have to counter that with a bit of rudder to make the nose go up vertically. Same for pushing the nose down again, you have to apply opposite rudder. You cannot fly a clean loop without rudder in a Pitts, a Cap or any other "plane with a very weak engine". (In planes with excessively weak engines, such as the Cessna 152, you should fly after the book and not try such things.) With the P-51 it is absolutely the same. Just more pronounced. And you will feel the effect of the torque much more, like one wing stalling much sooner than the other at power on stall conditions. Less hp will keep you from torque-rolling. Who says that the power if the engine makes you "wobble" clearly hasn't understood the gyro.

 

The main thing about all that is when giving rudder input, the plane doesn't "swing" ot the respective side, just to fall back like a pendulum as we have it with "the wobble". If rudder is applied reasonably (no more than a 1/4 travel distance, depending), the nose will just be proportionately yawed to the side you''re pushing it. You just keep the rudder such that the nose continues to point in the exact direction you want to. Usually straingt ahead. More like a car when you turn the wheel. And even there, only excessive turning the wheel plus taking hands off the wheel suddenly will make your car "wobble" (tail coming around).

 

Even when applying lots of aileron the adverse yaw will not generate a "wobble". It will make you yaw as long as you give aileron input and the nose will either remain off center (in a very neutral plane) or usually more or less slowly straighten out by itself. You only can make it swing by making it go crabwise with lots of rudder input and then center pedals. If the plane is very stable longitudinally it will maybe swing forth and back once or twice after letting pedals go (taking  feet off the pedals), if it is more neutral, in my experience the plane just enter a spiral towards the respective side. Wobbling with a rudder held centered is something I've never really had. Maybe in gliders with long wings, there is a lot of momentum then. But the larger the dimensons are, the slower is the swing (frequency of the pendulum).

 

In game, planes *wobble* with a frequency of about 1 per second. Also telling from the posted video. I find this a tad fast for a 10 meter 4 ton object. Remember, to make it "wobble", it must swing with it's own frequency. I tried to make a 1 ton Jodel dauphin "wobble" by kicking the rudder, but even when you really force it, it swings much slower, despite being smaller and 1/4 of the weight.

 

I trust the devs are doing the right thing currently. If they mend the "wobble", I think they should go to v.3 with this sim.    It would be a huge departure from a dark past.

[Ribbon]

You do very well notice that, even in planes with far less than 1200 hp. The thing you notice is that when you pull up, you have to counter that with a bit of rudder to make the nose go up vertically. Same for pushing the nose down again, you have to apply opposite rudder. You cannot fly a clean loop without rudder in a Pitts, a Cap or any other "plane with a very weak engine". (In planes with excessively weak engines, such as the Cessna 152, you should fly after the book and not try such things.) With the P-51 it is absolutely the same. Just more pronounced. And you will feel the effect of the torque much more, like one wing stalling much sooner than the other at power on stall conditions. Less hp will keep you from torque-rolling. Who says that the power if the engine makes you "wobble" clearly hasn't understood the gyro.

 

The main thing about all that is when giving rudder input, the plane doesn't "swing" ot the respective side, just to fall back like a pendulum as we have it with "the wobble". If rudder is applied reasonably (no more than a 1/4 travel distance, depending), the nose will just be proportionately yawed to the side you''re pushing it. You just keep the rudder such that the nose continues to point in the exact direction you want to. Usually straingt ahead. More like a car when you turn the wheel. And even there, only excessive turning the wheel plus taking hands off the wheel suddenly will make your car "wobble" (tail coming around).

 

Even when applying lots of aileron the adverse yaw will not generate a "wobble". It will make you yaw as long as you give aileron input and the nose will either remain off center (in a very neutral plane) or usually more or less slowly straighten out by itself. You only can make it swing by making it go crabwise with lots of rudder input and then center pedals. If the plane is very stable longitudinally it will maybe swing forth and back once or twice after letting pedals go (taking feet off the pedals), if it is more neutral, in my experience the plane just enter a spiral towards the respective side. Wobbling with a rudder held centered is something I've never really had. Maybe in gliders with long wings, there is a lot of momentum then. But the larger the dimensons are, the slower is the swing (frequency of the pendulum).

 

In game, planes *wobble* with a frequency of about 1 per second. Also telling from the posted video. I find this a tad fast for a 10 meter 4 ton object. Remember, to make it "wobble", it must swing with it's own frequency. I tried to make a 1 ton Jodel dauphin "wobble" by kicking the rudder, but even when you really force it, it swings much slower, despite being smaller and 1/4 of the weight.

 

I trust the devs are doing the right thing currently. If they mend the "wobble", I think they should go to v.3 with this sim. It would be a huge departure from a dark past.

All they need to do is implement RTCU (rudder trim comparator). ;P

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I trust the devs are doing the right thing currently. If they mend the "wobble", I think they should go to v.3 with this sim.    It would be a huge departure from a dark past.

 

+infinit, brother! 

Edited June 25, 2017 by -=PHX=-Spartan-

[Lusekofte]

 

 

Too many simmers think that flying a real airplane is far harder than it really is,

 

It was, the real fighter pilots did not fingertip manoeuvring , they had to use a lot of power and tolerate G forces. They also had to endure freezing temperature. And in the case of PE 2 the controls where very heavy. In terms of flying it all depended on stability. Stabile airplanes was really not the best fighters.

I have flown some  Cessna  types with friends and Bell helicopter´s in occasions, straight and level with a few turns. Very easy, I think a 3 year old can do it. But it is hardly what we talk about

[Guest deleted@50488]

If you go to Realism, and select custom, then select simplified physics, you will not have the problem of a constantly wobbling gunsight, but in campaign mode the custom option is not available ?? so what ever plane you fly that effect is with  you always.

 

I have requested via many posts that the custom option be included in the campaign mode, my argument is that, i own the flight sim which is on my computer, so why cant i fly it the way that i choose !

 

 

Best of luck.

 

Well, first of all, thank you for suggesting the use of "simplified physics", but I tried it and saw no difference. As a matter of fact, I can't find any major difference, while flying the 109 F-2, between simplified and normal/complex physics ( ? )

[Barnacles]

The 109s do seem to be able to do 'snap' shots a lot better than the other planes. In the past the Devs have quoted figures for example negative stall characteristics to justify this. Is the 'wobble' a symptom of how they have implemented this charaterisitc in the sim? If they cure the 'wobble' will this ablity be lost?

[Riderocket]

The 109s do seem to be able to do 'snap' shots a lot better than the other planes. In the past the Devs have quoted figures for example negative stall characteristics to justify this. Is the 'wobble' a symptom of how they have implemented this charaterisitc in the sim? If they cure the 'wobble' will this ablity be lost?

Because IL-2 uses dynamic flight models, if they managed to remove the wobble, the plane would probably loose some characteristics, then people would complain about that.

 

Long story short, people will always complain about something! (esspeically those Luftwhiners )

[=/WoVi/=kirumovka]

If the axis input custimsation was as advanced as war tuhnder's, maybe we wouldn't have the wobble issue.