Fighting Me109s in CloD

[No.23_Starling]

Fellow pilots.

 

I completely suck in CloD flying in Spits vs 109s. Even against the AI, the moment they climb above me I just watch as the dive on me time and time again until they get bored.

 

Some of you might claim this is karma (I know, I'm very annoying when I'm spadding/pfalzing), but I'd really like to shoot down a 109, even just once. I've found that if I start above the 109 it helps a bit but after 1 burst they've climbed above me and I'm back to where I was.

 

Even when I chase 109s on the level I never catch them, regardless of RPM or throttle. I thought the Spit 1a was meant to be faster than the 109 e3?

 

Would someone like to help me be less awful? Any videos you can suggest?

[BOO]

Theres isnt much you can do about being BnZ'd instantly. But turning in ever decreasing circles wont help as I keeps the vertical element for the 109 static.. The more you can extend without loosing height (perhaps even gaining a little with each pass), the longer the 109 has to run in scrubbing off energy from their start point, the less energy they have to continue - if you are lucky they will realise it after you do. The faster you do that the less chance their sisters will be along to loose deuce you as well. If you dive youre as good as dead. 

 

A spit or hurri can outturn any 109 at its fighting speed quite easily so again, there is no need to sacrifice all your speed pulling the stick out of its socket. Just be unpredictable but smooth with direction so you cant be easily lead predicted. 

 

If you are chasing down a 109 its a tough call but rads and trim help more than gunning the go go handle. Same with climb outs - gentle stick inputs. TBH from height you should only drop unless you have a good speed advantage anyway. I often see spits rolling in after a 109 that's dived in then hearing complaining about its speed in the climb out. Doesn't seem to be any understanding that even though they were 1000ft higher, the 109 passed under them 200mph faster. 

 

There are lots of tips all over but TBH, read the ones about flying the 109 - these seem better organised and give you a good understanding or the average 109 mindset in Clod. 

 

Best of luck

[19//Moach]

CloD has one of the closest to date simulator representations of any one particular battle, and it is fortunate that said battle has been one of the closest matches ever fought by any two forces, in terms of equipment and training and whatnot... it's hard to think of any historical battle where you have such near-perfect gameplay balance without having to "adjust" anything for any of each sides involved

 

which means, as far as CloD goes - you don't need to consider advice only from forums. any documentaries or such records from the battle's veterans themselves is invaluable information - and many times watching BoB films on youtube, I've heard one veteran pilot describe some thing he used to do in the war, and thought "damn! that's actually really clever! I should start doing that"

 

 

BoS has not yet evolved to a point where this is possible, since the FMs are a bit off, ever so slightly, but by just enough to invalidate some real war tactics almost altogether - so you're limited to player advice if you seek competitiveness more than authenticity (there's both kinds of player, and you can rapidly learn to tell them apart)

 

in my opinion, the spit and the emil are matched to an almost identical overall probability of victory to each - and in the end, it is basically all down to the pilot

 

best advice I can think to give - fight with your brain before you bring your plane into it  - don't go deep into a dogfight looking for trouble. you don't want trouble (you'll have only 50% odds then) - what you want is a kill.  after that, you can maybe consider letting the 109 driver know you were there

 

and if they start giving you a chase - avoid the temptation to stick on their tail for another shot (extremely hard to do this) - some 90% of the time, it's not the guy you're shooting at that kills you, but his buddy you didn't know was around

 

 

cheers

Edited June 26, 2017 by 19//Moach

[No.23_Starling]

Thanks for your replies guys.

 

I get that the spit and 109 are closely matched by I still cant even beat the AI 1-on-1 if we start on a level. As said before, after the first pass they climb above me and then I'm on the defensive until they break off. I find the same situation often online. Is there any way to actually fight back against a 109 doing this? Again, if I climb gradually and eventually get co-alt they then extend and climb again.

 

It kind of reminds me of my Spad flying in RoF, but even then there's a chance that the Dr1 etc can pull off a prop shot.

 

How do you guys fight AI 109s 1-on-1?

[Herne]

CloD has one of the closest to date simulator representations of any one particular battle, and it is fortunate that said battle has been one of the closest matches ever fought by any two forces, in terms of equipment and training and whatnot... it's hard to think of any historical battle where you have such near-perfect gameplay balance without having to "adjust" anything for any of each sides involved

 

which means, as far as CloD goes - you don't need to consider advice only from forums. any documentaries or such records from the battle's veterans themselves is invaluable information - and many times watching BoB films on youtube, I've heard one veteran pilot describe some thing he used to do in the war, and thought "damn! that's actually really clever! I should start doing that"

 

 

BoS has not yet evolved to a point where this is possible, since the FMs are a bit off, ever so slightly, but by just enough to invalidate some real war tactics almost altogether - so you're limited to player advice if you seek competitiveness more than authenticity (there's both kinds of player, and you can rapidly learn to tell them apart)

 

in my opinion, the spit and the emil are matched to an almost identical overall probability of victory to each - and in the end, it is basically all down to the pilot

 

best advice I can think to give - fight with your brain before you bring your plane into it  - don't go deep into a dogfight looking for trouble. you don't want trouble (you'll have only 50% odds then) - what you want is a kill.  after that, you can maybe consider letting the 109 driver know you were there

 

and if they start giving you a chase - avoid the temptation to stick on their tail for another shot (extremely hard to do this) - some 90% of the time, it's not the guy you're shooting at that kills you, but his buddy you didn't know was around

 

 

cheers

 

That may be true of the game. But does not represent how things were in real life according to pilot action reports from both sides. The spit boost cut off was used routinely by RAF pilots, combined with the 100 octane fuel they had a significant advantage. They could catch 109's in level flight, out climb the 109 and even catch 109's in a dive, except for the initial part of the dive during the battle of Britain,

 

This article is a good read, particularly the pilot action reports.

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html

[No.23_Starling]

Interesting and also disheartening. It looks like this is another Sopwith Triplane problem where the flight modelling has been altered somewhat from existing evidence for whatever reason. From what I've read, the CloD Spitfire performs more like the real life Hurricane and the Spitfire has been nerfed for balance. I'm not sure I want to master the CloD Spitfire now.

 

Has anyone flown the BoS Spitfire yet to see how that performs? My understanding is that the MkV was inferior to the FW190 and later 109 types.

[ST_Pirato]

Maybe using a different Ammo loadout helps in making more damage per hit. I have read that the stock ammo loadout is not very effective. Incase you haven't already,set the Vertical and horizontal convergence to something like 200m. You have to do that for each pair of guns. The Value in the Hangar,where you set the convergence in CloD is in Meters,whereas the Gunsight settings ingame is in Yards. Maybe this Thread on the ATAG Forums helps a bit https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=908

Edited June 26, 2017 by ST_Pirato

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Pull up Head into the Yoyo and scare the poodles out of him..

Joking - dont do that you will 9/10 times die instantly in a headon with such low E

[19//Moach]

keep in mind - in CloD you have both the spit 1, the 1a (with the heavier but more flexible constant speed prop) - and then there is the mk2

 

now, the mk1 with the manual prop has a markedly higher workload to it, and it kinda requires a left/right throttle type joystick (x55, x56 or warthog) to get comfortable with - however, once you do so, it feels noticeably lighter in the air, though this slight edge does not always compensate the extra attention that propeller requires... 

 

the mk2 then, is a whole new beast - wanna catch a 109? this one will do it - it is quite more powerful than the mk1 and 1a, and with a pressurized coolant system, it can casually run at engine temps that would destroy the previous model very quickly

however, this bigger, tougher engine it's got is also very quite heavier - and you can very well notice that the gradual transition from turn&burn tactics to boom&zoom which occurred for many sides as the war progressed has already started to take place from that point on.  the mk2 is much better used with similar tactics to the 109

 

actually, I think any plane does better at boom+zoom than it does chasing tails round and round... it's just a superior tactic, which allows you to make the most of surprise and if all else fails, you're more likely to end up at a safe distance from the murderous thing you just made very angry

[Monostripezebra]

You can also bring friends. That´s more fun, anyways.