Wing damage questions

[CF-105]

I just have two small questions about wing damage (at least for now),

 

1. Why can only one wing be entirely shot off?  

 

No matter if you critically over-g the plane, crash, get shot up, only one wing will be fully destroyed/fall off, even if the other is hanging off by threads.  I've had this explained to me as a way to prevent people from flying around **without wings, for the sake of realism, but the solution to that problem is unrealistic in itself.  A better solution would be to make one of the wing stubs have a bit more lift than the other. The upcoming FM patch is going to make the rudder less effective at rolling the aircraft, making flight even harder to achieve without wings.

 

2. When one aileron rod is shot up, the opposite is still operable, but when the wing is destroyed along with the aileron rod, the opposite jams.  It used to be that the P-40 could lose half a wing and still have the other fully functional, but the devs have since changed it to be like the rest of the aircraft.  Could this be explained to me?

 

** 

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by CF-105

[Legioneod]

They could also just make the controls inoperable when this happens, it's strange that they can even do this in-game as it's impossible irl.

 

One thing I would like to see added is the ability to lose some or even half or your wing and still be able to fly.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I don't remember loosing two wings simultaneously (explosion) or second one after first. It would be hard and unnecessary to hit spinning to the ground already destroyed plane.

BTW after bf109 cannon buff I constantly get destroyed in yaks by wing shot off - IMHO this happens to often and it's to repetitive ,there are many examples of that on YT videos posted by various ppl.

Answering your question meybe after loosing first wing game mechanic stops registering​ damage to other one... Without test hard to tell.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

BTW after bf109 cannon buff I constantly get destroyed in yaks by wing shot off - IMHO this happens to often and it's to repetitive

Maybe thats because Yak pilots have a tendency​ to load the plane up with a significant amount of G forces when attempting to evade being shot.

[Voidhunger]

Its possible to shot off both wings. Best way to do it is when the enemy plane hangs in the air near stall. I shreded this way yak 1b recently.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Maybe thats because Yak pilots have a tendency​ to load the plane up with a significant amount of G forces when attempting to evade being shot.

If you would watch videos it's happening also when yak flys straight unaware of danger.

[coconut]

That a plane loses one wing more often than two isn't surprising me at all. Once one wing is off, one of the two opposing moments putting stress on wing roots is gone. No opposing moments means no stress, means no second wing loss.

[CF-105]

I know you can lose both wings, but the game does not permit you to lose both your wings entirely.  You can have one wing gone from one side, but you cannot completely get rid of the other one.  It's like there's a mechanic that prevents symmetrical damage.  The video I shared in my OP is from a much earlier version of the game, and I challenge someone to replicate it.

 

This is quite noticeable when you, for example, fly into the mouth of a bridge.

Edited June 22, 2017 by CF-105

[Finkeren]

I wish I had grabbed a screenshot or a video of it, but I shot both wings off an MC. 202 yesterday and I'm pretty sure both came off entirely.

 

In any case, I don't get, why this would be a big deal. IRL it wouldn't be something that generally happened. The wing root is the strongest part of the structure on an aircraft, it makes sense, that snapping both wing directly at the root would be something that hardly ever happens. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I know you can lose both wings, but the game does not permit you to lose both your wings entirely.  You can have one wing gone from one side, but you cannot completely get rid of the other one.  It's like there's a mechanic that prevents symmetrical damage.  The video I shared in my OP is from a much earlier version of the game, and I challenge someone to replicate it.

 

This is quite noticeable when you, for example, fly into the mouth of a bridge.

Well, it IRL that would be almost impossible as well as coconut already explained. If one Wing breaks off there is no more Force on the Wing Left to Rip it off as well. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

From that explosion they ich lost only one wing. This proof nothing. But i will be watching more closely to find evidence of both wings rip off...

 

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

but the bombers loose both wings..

Tho o2 tank explosion maybe has someone to do with that

[Livai]

 

 

From that explosion they ich lost only one wing. This proof nothing. But i will be watching more closely to find evidence of both wings rip off...

 

two planes crashed together, and???

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

two planes crashed together, and???

Nothing

[-TBC-AeroAce]

The planes exploding where everything falls off is more of a graphics effect and not a dammage model thing. IMO collisions and explosions are not part of the DM to a certain extent.

 

I will agree that I cant remember a time where I have lost both wings if being shot at.

Edited June 22, 2017 by AeroAce

[Livai]

Leave it to me, two wings off challenge accomplished......

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Close but not quite tear off:/

Edited June 23, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[von-Luck]

Try using P40 with 6xM2. Set convergence out a fair ways and try to saw both wings off. One of my favorite stories is a P51 pilot who claimed he folded both wings of a 190 over the canopy by firing inside his convergence.

 

von Luck

Edited June 23, 2017 by von-Luck

[216th_Jordan]

Try using P40 with 6xM2. Set convergence out a fair ways and try to saw both wings off. One of my favorite stories is a P51 pilot who claimed he folded both wings of a 190 over the canopy by firing inside his convergence.

 

von Luck

Oh.... /o\ no!

Edited June 24, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[Livai]

Close but not quite tear off:/

 

"No squimering now. I need to be able to cut cleanly".......

The AI is squimering where you are forced to fly another attack for the second wing. Means the AI has enough time to squimering their first damaged wing. Next is the feeling not to cut the wings off now. The AI plane was 200m over ground where the first wing and the second wing falling apart clearly to see, too. However if the AI planes was just +200m higher the second wing had enough time to falling apart fully.

 

There is no close because the second wings was already falling apart fully at 50m over ground. BTW I needed only one try to accomplish this not only that see how much ammo was used to accomplish this! 

 

Try using P40 with 6xM2. Set convergence out a fair ways and try to saw both wings off. One of my favorite stories is a P51 pilot who claimed he folded both wings of a 190 over the canopy by firing inside his convergence.

 

von Luck

 

Great favorite stories, however the reality looks squimering. First to have the feeling not to cut one wing off and to be 100% sure at the same time that both wings receive the same damage + avoid engine damage or fire. I did it with the 109. Needed the second attack for the next wing because like I said you can't avoid that the AI is squimering and dive away from you what makes things more difficult. It's not the easy task overall. Wing cannons do too much damage and the risk to cut just one wing off is very high and not only that like I said above you need to avoid fire or engine damage what adds more difficult. Engine cannons are the best to do this to place clean controlled single hits to the wing root.

 

However if the enemy going to stall and is hanging in the air makes everything a lot easier to cut both wings off at the same time. Hanging in the air is the key to cut everything off at the same time cleanly!

Edited June 24, 2017 by Livai

[JtD]

Shot both wings off a Pe-2 just now in a quick mission. I also shot both wings off many aircraft during testing.

[Finkeren]

Shot both wings off a Pe-2 just now in a quick mission. I also shot both wings off many aircraft during testing.

 

That's not really what the OP is about. It is about the alleged inability for both wings to be ripped off entirely. For your example to qualify, the right wing would have to have broken off right at the wing root like the left one did.

[JtD]

Well, if I still remember that this is under debate I'll post a screenshot when that happens. Still have done that many times during testing.

[CF-105]

Leave it to me, two wings off challenge accomplished......

 

That's what I was getting at, even though you've destroyed the spars of both wings, a 90 ton locomotive could slam the remaining one and nothing would happen (though I did find in testing you could indeed lose both wings completely, but only when the aircraft fuselage explodes and disintegrates).

 

Really, I think this issue is light-years from being a significant problem in the game, it's just something weird I've noticed that can reduce immersion a bit.  What I'm more interested in is how aircraft always lose aileron control in a seemingly undamaged wing when the other wing is cut in half or ripped off entirely, especially considering several accounts of men flying home with damage like this.

Edited June 25, 2017 by CF-105

[Legioneod]

That's what I was getting at, even though you've destroyed the spars of both wings, a 90 ton locomotive could slam the remaining one and nothing would happen (though I did find in testing you could indeed lose both wings completely, but only when the aircraft fuselage explodes and disintegrates).

 

Really, I think this issue is light-years from being a significant problem in the game, it's just something weird I've noticed that can reduce immersion a bit.  What I'm more interested in is how aircraft always lose aileron control in a seemingly undamaged wing when the other wing is cut in half or ripped off entirely, especially considering several accounts of men flying home with damage like this.

If the wing is completely torn off it makes sense that you would be able to continue to fly it. But I agree that if only a portion of the wing is destroyed then you should still be able to fly it in some cases.

[CF-105]

If the wing is completely torn off it makes sense that you would be able to continue to fly it. But I agree that if only a portion of the wing is destroyed then you should still be able to fly it in some cases.

 

I agree, but does anyone here know if there's a reason aileron control is completely jammed when you lose a wingtip of only one wing?  It just doesn't seem to entirely make sense to me, considering you can have one wing's aileron rods destroyed and the other side will work, but only if the wings are both still fully connected.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Pretty sure the conversation was quite different 1.5 years ago. Planes were still flying and occasionally RTB with part of the wing missing. Game was patched making this next to impossible following community feedback.

[9./JG27DefaultFace]

I think you can easily lose wing tips or outer sections and fly home. It's not represented visually other than a few holes but it certainly feels like a large portion of a wing is missing sometimes.

[CF-105]

I think you can easily lose wing tips or outer sections and fly home. It's not represented visually other than a few holes but it certainly feels like a large portion of a wing is missing sometimes.

 

I know that, the question about the wingtip loss is why it jams the ailerons of the opposite wing, there are pictures of various ww2 fighters returning home missing half a wing, from a TBF Avenger, A5M, and even a Fw-190.  I know for a fact that the pilot of the A5M had his remaining control surfaces fully functional, in his account of the incident he recalls struggling with fatigue, keeping the stick all the way to the side to keep the aircraft level, and I'm guessing that the TBF and 190 pilots would have bailed/ditched a lot sooner if they were missing such a critical element of control.

[216th_Jordan]

I think this may be plane dependent. There are planes where the aileron does not jam when a wing is lost. I don't know how this system works in different planes though.

[9./JG27DefaultFace]

I know that, the question about the wingtip loss is why it jams the ailerons of the opposite wing, there are pictures of various ww2 fighters returning home missing half a wing, from a TBF Avenger, A5M, and even a Fw-190.  I know for a fact that the pilot of the A5M had his remaining control surfaces fully functional, in his account of the incident he recalls struggling with fatigue, keeping the stick all the way to the side to keep the aircraft level, and I'm guessing that the TBF and 190 pilots would have bailed/ditched a lot sooner if they were missing such a critical element of control.

 

I assume this would have to do with distinguishing between 'control rods/linkages' being severed on one side or just being damaged/Jammed. I'm not sure if there are 2 different states for these cases, so maybe if you take damage on a wing it counts the aileron linkage as damaged/Jammed (which would block the stick from moving the other aileron) instead of being severed, where you would just have a control rod pushing nothing on the ones side.

 

Just a guess though. I had a look at all the damage states theoretically modeled in DCS as you can see them in the editor, but I haven't looked in BOS yet.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Just a little Ductape and some bubblegum and she will be all good again...

Kinda clipped a few trees in my 111 while testing dive brakes
Left - 3 cracks / Right Tip missing & 1 Crack

Edited June 30, 2017 by =TBAS=Sshadow14