Mmmmmm... Sptifire today? :)

[Guest deleted@50488]

I hate it when the game hangs momentarily, on start-up and you think, crap, it's here,  and then the game fires-up and it isn't      

 

Yeah, that feel that the engine is going to start.... but it doesn't.... Just don't prime too much!

 

I'm also looking fwd for it since all versions of Spitfires I have used in other sims feel not like what I believe and watch in the many videos a Spitifire "being like"....

 

Since I still consider IL.2 flight dynamics and overall physics modelling of powerful prop aircraft is the best available, I really look forward to be able to be positively surprised the first time I pick it from the Allies aircraft list :-)

Edited June 22, 2017 by jcomm

[Herne]

Still betting on another week minimum.

I have a good feeling about today. It's a beautiful day for a patch.

[Finkeren]

[Bullets]

I just wish we got word from them? "hey guys testings going well however not done yet, eta next week" hardly a hardship and keeps the community happy and up to date. Its uncertainty that creates impatience   

[Finkeren]

I just wish we got word from them? "hey guys testings going well however not done yet, eta next week" hardly a hardship and keeps the community happy and up to date. Its uncertainty that creates impatience   

 

There is no uncertainty. The last DD clearly said, that beta was ready, and that the update would be released as soon as the testing and bug fixing concludes. From past history we know, that this process takes 1 - 2 weeks, very occasionally longer, at which point we usually get a heads-up.

 

I'm 90% certain, that it's coming middle of next week.

[Herne]

There is no uncertainty. The last DD clearly said, that beta was ready, and that the update would be released as soon as the testing and bug fixing concludes. From past history we know, that this process takes 1 - 2 weeks, very occasionally longer, at which point we usually get a heads-up.

 

I'm 90% certain, that it's coming middle of next week.

 

Do you think they are testing blazing steppes too ? If so it makes sense that so far as testing goes that it is going to take potentially more time.

 

There aren't many things at my age that can make me feel as excited as a kid before Christmas. The thought of flying the Spit in VR with well researched flight characteristics is definitely one of them. I'm struggling to get this excitement under control

[Finkeren]

Do you think they are testing blazing steppes too ? If so it makes sense that so far as testing goes that it is going to take potentially more time.

 

Kinda makes sense. But honestly I don't think they'd hold back release because a few of their testers didn't quite finish the campaign yet.

[Bullets]

Kinda makes sense. But honestly I don't think they'd hold back release because a few of their testers didn't quite finish the campaign yet.

 

I think they would, they are not the type of devs to just release something when its done. It waits until everything else for that planned release is ready. I always moan about it but an example would be the Summer / autumn maps. The summer map was finished almost months before the autumn one but they waited to release the two at the same time.. Why? I have no idea.. but its been a common theme with development & updates

Have I bought this campaign? No, because I never play single player.   Do I feel like it should affect development/release for other key areas of the game? no...

[Haza]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrUN7XGcDqQ

 

 

Bullets, thought of you mate!!

[Bullets]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrUN7XGcDqQ

 

 

Bullets, thought of you mate!!

 

I've been supporting 777 since 2010 buddy   That's 7 years of patience   

[senseispcc]

In one or two weeks and that was one week ago ! Make your own conclusions.   

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Considering how iconic the spit is and how touchy this community is I bet u they are in no rush to just get this out the door.

 

But hell I can't wait

[dburne]

Yep once this Spit is out I will finally be able to give my well worn Yak-1 Series 169 a rest. 

Now if Blacksix could just get to work creating a campaign for it... lol.

Edited June 22, 2017 by dburne

[Finkeren]

Yep once this Spit is out I will finally be able to give my well worn Yak-1 Series 169 a rest. 

Now if Blacksix could just get to work creating a campaign for it... lol.

 

In 2-3 months you can fly it in career mode.

[Trooper117]

I've got plenty of Spits to fly at the moment... but looking forward to see how she handles in this sim.

[Finkeren]

I've got plenty of Spits to fly at the moment... but looking forward to see how she handles in this sim.

 

Trooper, since you're flying the Spit in DCS, can you give us a little insight into how those "static neutral" controls feel different from the ones in, say, the Bf 109K?

[Asgar]

Trooper, since you're flying the Spit in DCS, can you give us a little insight into how those "static neutral" controls feel different from the ones in, say, the Bf 109K?

it stalls ...very easy and with little notice (thanks eliptical wings)

[Ribbon]

In 2-3 months you can fly it in career mode.

More likely 4 months! End of the october.

Also i expect Jason and devs are mortals like us so they deserve summer holidays too, maybe that's why we didn't heard any word from Jason lately.

Edited June 22, 2017 by redribbon

[Herne]

it stalls ...very easy and with little notice (thanks eliptical wings)

 

 

Are you saying the spit stalls easily with little warning ? 

[Finkeren]

it stalls ...very easy and with little notice (thanks eliptical wings)

 

Sure, but I was thinking about the effect of the "static neutral" specifically. From what I could gather from Gavrick's DD, it means, that when the plane is getting pre-stall buffeting, it is not enough to simply not pull further on the stick, you have to actively push the stick forward to counter and avoid the stall.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Finkeren

[Bullets]

I doubt that? its wings are huge with what I assume is low wing loading? 

[Asgar]

Are you saying the spit stalls easily with little warning ? 

the Spitfire IX LF yes

[ShamrockOneFive]

I doubt that? its wings are huge with what I assume is low wing loading? 

 

It's not just the size and the wingloading. The profile and the shape matter too. From what I've read over the years... the elliptical shape was good for pre-stall warning as the tip of the wing could stall without the entire wing stalling. This gave the pilot feedback and time to prevent the stall from progressing. The wing profile is fairly thin which was also described to me as being something that could be nasty if a stall were allowed to continue.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Sure, but I was thinking about the effect of the "static neutral" specifically. From what I could gather from Gavrick's DD, it means, that when the plane is getting pre-stall buffeting, it is not enough to simply not pull further on the stick, you have to actively push the stick forward to counter and avoid the stall.

Neutral static stability is a feauture commonly shared among aerobatic planes. With this they are very manouvrebel to even slight controll inputs but highly unstable in straight flight. It also requires more attention from the pilot and constant 'hands on stick' to counter any deviation from the flight path and eventually avoid stalling (trim alone is not sufficient enought). The Spitfire shares some of those aspects which means it does react very erracticly to violent inputs and if not carefull a spin will develop quick enought for you to not notice the pre stall warning.

 

I doubt that? its wings are huge with what I assume is low wing loading? 

Wing loading does not cause stalls but the Angle of Attack of the wing profile (AoA).

Edited June 22, 2017 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Herne]

Sure, but I was thinking about the effect of the "static neutral" specifically. From what I could gather from Gavrick's DD, it means, that when the plane is getting pre-stall buffeting, it is not enough to simply not pull further on the stick, you have to actively push the stick forward to counter and avoid the stall.

 

My understanding from what I read was that you would simply have to reduce back pressure on the stick once you get the pre stall buffeting. Especially as he went on to say that setting controls to neutral would normally be enough for a spin recovery. 

"Having the papers ready, enter the spin bravely - to recover from the spin, setting the control surfaces to the neutral position is enough usually."

[Finkeren]

I doubt that? its wings are huge with what I assume is low wing loading? 

 

Low wing loading by itself doesn't mean that it gives much warning before it stalls. Stalls depend on angle of attack only.

 

That the Spit stalls easily is more a testament to how effective its controls are, that it can easily push the wing over the AoA threshold at any speed.

[Bullets]

Low wing loading by itself doesn't mean that it gives much warning before it stalls. Stalls depend on angle of attack only.

 

That the Spit stalls easily is more a testament to how effective its controls are, that it can easily push the wing over the AoA threshold at any speed.

 

 

ahh i see makes sense      

[Finkeren]

My understanding from what I read was that you would simply have to reduce back pressure on the stick once you get the pre stall buffeting. Especially as he went on to say that setting controls to neutral would normally be enough for a spin recovery. 

"Having the papers ready, enter the spin bravely - to recover from the spin, setting the control surfaces to the neutral position is enough usually."

 

Actually, that was what I meant by moving the stick forward as well. I should have said "ease off" on the stick. Still it's opposed to most other planes, where you can safely keep the current back pressure on the stick and ride on the edge of a stall (not advisable, but you can do it)

[Trooper117]

Well, I'm not an aero engineer, so I can't say with any certainty what is right or wrong or if things feel like a real Spit or 109.

I will say that the Mk IX in DCS does stall all to easily... I still don't know how true to life that is, but from every interview I have watched on  handling a Spitfire, just about every pilot has stated that it is the most forgiving aircraft to fly and has no vices... the only time to be really wary with her is on take off and landing...

[Herne]

the Spitfire IX LF yes

 

The spitfire was well known for it's benign stalls, and was very difficult to spin unintentionally.

 

The wing roots would stall well in advance of the tips giving the strong buffet while retaining control.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

The spitfire was well known for it's benign stalls, and was very difficult to spin unintentionally.

 

The wing roots would stall well in advance of the tips giving the strong buffet while retaining control.

[Ribbon]

Low wing loading by itself doesn't mean that it gives much warning before it stalls. Stalls depend on angle of attack only.

 

That the Spit stalls easily is more a testament to how effective its controls are, that it can easily push the wing over the AoA threshold at any speed.

AOA and it's ecliptical wings with longer distance between leading and trailing edge which cause greater drag on certain angle and energy bleed

[Finkeren]

 

Sounds somewhat like the accelerated stall of the Fw 190, only here you have to rapidly easy off the stick to avoid it.

[Herne]

"Geoffrey Wellum of No 92 Squadron found himself in quite a fix after expending all his ammunition shooting down an HE-111:

I've behaved like a beginner, bounced from behind. My own fault, shouldn't have relaxed after I'd finished with that bloody Heinkel. Elementary rule number one: never relax vigilance. I asked for it and got caught napping, well and truly bounced...

Looking back over my shoulder, an Me 109 is sitting on my tail not thirty yards away, or so it seems, and turning with me. I see the flash from his cannons and puffs of greyish smoke as he tries a quick burst. Not a bad one either as I hear more hits somewhere behind the fuselage.

The German pilot is trying to tighten his turn still more to keep up with me and I'm sure I see the 109 flick. You won't do it, mate, we're on the limit as it is. I can see his head quite clearly and even the dark shape of his oxygen mask. Yet again I imagine that the 109 gives a distinct flick, on the point of a high speed stall. He has to ease his turn a fraction. The Spitfire gains slowly. I exalt and yell at him. Sweat starts to get into my eyes...

The 109 finally comes out of his turn and pulls up, trying to gain height on me. As he climbs he goes into another steep turn, very steep, well over the vertical. I look up at him but he has made his effort and failed. I've gained too much and now I'm more behind him than he is behind me...

If you want to shake someone off your tail you have to fly your Spitfire to its limits. In a tight turn you increase the G loading to such an extent that the wings can no longer support the weight and the plane stalls, with momentary loss of control. However, in a Spitfire, just before the stall, the whole aircraft judders, it's a stall warning, if you like. With practice and experience you can hold the plane on this judder in a very tight turn. You never actually stall the aircraft and you don't need to struggle to regain control because you never lose it. A 109 can't stay with you. 

91"

A pilot action report from http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html

sounds to me like you should be able to ride the edge of the envelope as you previously suggested finkeren. Those pilot action reports are a good read.

[Finkeren]

Of course you can still ride on the edge of a stall, it just requires you to change control input constantly to maintain it (at least that's what I can gather from the info we have - I'm not a beta tester)

 

Miscalculate your input though, and you're gonna flick around and probably lose your lunch.

[Herne]

Of course you can still ride on the edge of a stall, it just requires you to change control input constantly to maintain it (at least that's what I can gather from the info we have - I'm not a beta tester)

 

Miscalculate your input though, and you're gonna flick around and probably lose your lunch.

 

very true, although recovery should be pretty effortless

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

very true, although recovery should be pretty effortless

Gavrick explained in the DD that it is easy to recover by leaving controlls neutral. However due to the nature of the spin characteristics it will lose significant altitude which makes spins undesireable in a combat situation.

 

As for riding on the edge of stall, you can do that if you approach it carefully. Even a slight overpull in a combat situation can lead straight into a spin wihtout a lot of warning beforehand. In this aircraft you have to be mindfull of your actions.

[Herne]

"Spins were carried out in the Spitfire XIV at 25,000 feet. The aircraft did not spin voluntarily but had to be put into and held in the spin. Instead of spinning in the normal nose down attitude, the nose of the aircraft oscillated from an almost verticle position downwards to a position with the nose well above the horizon, so that the aircraft was tail down. It spent most of its time in this flat position from which, after four turns, recovery was fast by the normal method or slower if the controls were released. It never appears to become uncontrollable."

 

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14afdu.html

Gavrick explained in the DD that it is easy to recover by leaving controlls neutral. However due to the nature of the spin characteristics it will lose significant altitude which makes spins undesireable in a combat situation.

 

As for riding on the edge of stall, you can do that if you approach it carefully. Even a slight overpull in a combat situation can lead straight into a spin wihtout a lot of warning beforehand. In this aircraft you have to be mindfull of your actions.

 

 

please tell me more about these spin characteristics.

Edit: can you spin the spit ? ofcourse you can, but its very difficult to do unintentionally. That pre stall buffet, should give us plenty of warning. even the document you linked, would love to see the entire thing by the way, said that the aircraft "may spin" if the control column is held back. No one holds the control column back when they have buffet unless they intentionally wish to either stall or spin.

Edited June 22, 2017 by herne6210

[senseispcc]

No, Spitfire today, 2 weeks...  

[71st_AH_Vertigo]

I mean, how can you not love that look?

 

 

soooo sexy..!! 

... but then again, I am a pontoon guy.....