Developers: Players misbehaving online is becoming a large problem. Here is what is needed:

[JG13_opcode]

Right now on WOL there are 5 players teamkilling, shooting friendlies, dropping bombs on friendly bases, and generally just attempting to ruin everyone's fun.

 

The names are:

 

DerpingBear - http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1982039/?tour=23

eman0311 - http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1982119/?tour=23

SuckaD - http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1982085/?tour=23

4./JG52_PharaohCurse - http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1982090/?tour=23

and one or two others whose names I forget.

 

This is not the first time this has happened, and it needs to stop if the multiplayer scene is to continue to thrive. This is not whining, this is not sour grapes, this is fact.

 

At the absolute minimum, what is needed is:

• Better in-game administration tools.  The current "vote ban" system is not good because half the players don't even know about it, and it takes too long.  What should happen is: One player initiates a vote, and then everyone is given the opportunity to press, say, F1 to vote Yes, and F2 to vote no.  One keystroke, nice and easy.  Pop-up a message on the screen to alert players that a vote is taking place.
• The ability to define server admins that have unilateral kick and ban powers.  This should be done granularly so that you can give someone kick power but not ban power, the ability to promote other players to admin temporarily, etc.
• The ability to define thresholds for friendly fire that will cause the server to automatically kick and/or ban problem players
• The ability to more precisely define the vote threshold.  Currently, too many players are apathetic and will not vote.  As a result, votes never pass even with 10-15 votes
• The ability to ignore/block ingame chat from a player.

These are features that every successful multiplayer title has from Day 1, and if you want the IL2 brand to succeed, you're going to have to make it a priority to support your community of online players.

 

We need better tools to manage the servers.

Edited June 15, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[JimTM]

FYI re. item 2, the server owner can give server admins unilateral kick and ban powers by giving them access to the Remote Console (an admin tool that connects to the DServer running the mission). There is also the ability to save chat logs. However:

- There is currently no way that I know of to separate kick and ban powers.

- Communication between the Remote Console and DServer is unencrypted so a secure channel may be required.

Edited June 14, 2017 by JimTM

[JG13_opcode]

FYI re. item 2, the server owner can give server admins unilateral kick and ban powers by giving them access to the Remote Console (an admin tool that connects to the DServer running the mission). There is also the ability to save chat logs. However:

- There is currently no way that I know of to separate kick and ban powers.

- Communication between the Remote Console and DServer is unencrypted so a secure channel may be required.

Yes, you are correct. What I'm referring to, though, is the ability to administrate the server from within the game client.

[JimTM]

Yes, you are correct. What I'm referring to, though, is the ability to administrate the server from within the game client.

 

That would be a nice improvement that would help bump up admin presence.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

does this vote ban feature actually work at all? i have never seen someone actually getting banned...and today there were a lot of ban votes all the time on wol....

[Gambit21]

I appreciate the productive post from Opcode.

 

For one, we need something similar to the old system (Hyperlobby) where hosting a CoOp, or a dogfight room was as simple as logging in, selecting your mission and launching.

I was forced to kick a number of people in the old sim from my CoOps for team killing, and on the few occasions when they showed up again, keeping them out was simple with this system...and it was done from within the game itself.

CoOps also tend to attract different, more  team/mission oriented players than your typical air-quake room. Thus the occasions where I ran into this issue were very few.

 

CoOps are on the way, although I'm still unclear how they will be implemented in BoX.

My hope is that eventually we'll be back more or less to the old functionality. as this would go a long ways towards keeping the element we're talking about at bay, not to mention

greatly increase the number and variety of available online missions.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I like #3 the most. 2nd TK - done for 24 hours.

[Guest deleted@83466]

What if they just lowered the threshold for a community ban?  What does it take now, like 2/3rds of players or something?  Ultimately though, I think it is up to the server operators to enforce the rules of their server, not the developers of the game.  That said, except for today, I've actually not seen too many intentional teamkillers/trolls though, especially not ones apparently acting in a coordinated fashion, because people have to pay up front for the game.  In RoF it seems this happened with a lot more frequency likely because the base game was a free download.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Iceworm

[Gambit21]

I like #3 the most. 2nd TK - done for 24 hours.

 

Aye

[Willy__]

What if they just lowered the threshold for a community ban?  What does it take now, like 2/3rds of players or something?  Ultimately though, I think it is up to the server operators to enforce the rules of their server, not the developers of the game.  Except for today, I actually not seen too many intentional teamkillers/trolls though (unlike RoF) because people have to pay up front for the game.

 

I could be wrong, but iirc it is 50% + 1.

[JG13_opcode]

Ultimately though, I think it is up to the server operators to enforce the rules of their server, not the developers of the game.

Nobody's asking the developers to enforce rules. Did you actually read what I wrote?

 

We (the community) can more effectively police our servers if the developers give us the tools to do it. The tools we have now are woefully inadequate.

 

I appreciate the productive post from Opcode.

 

For one, we need something similar to the old system (Hyperlobby) where hosting a CoOp, or a dogfight room was as simple as logging in, selecting your mission and launching.

I was forced to kick a number of people in the old sim from my CoOps for team killing, and on the few occasions when they showed up again, keeping them out was simple with this system...and it was done from within the game itself.

CoOps also tend to attract different, more  team/mission oriented players than your typical air-quake room. Thus the occasions where I ran into this issue were very few.

 

CoOps are on the way, although I'm still unclear how they will be implemented in BoX.

My hope is that eventually we'll be back more or less to the old functionality. as this would go a long ways towards keeping the element we're talking about at bay, not to mention

greatly increase the number and variety of available online missions.

The problem with HL was that ubi didn't control it. They were wholly dependent on Jiri and his benevolence, because the old ubi.com launcher was horrible. There are better ways to do it without relying on a 3rd-party tool that has its own forums, its own account system, its own unaccountable admin(s), its own branding, etc. If the game had better native community tools, HL would never have been necessary in the first place.

 

I could be wrong, but iirc it is 50% + 1.

Yeah, and on an 84-player server you need 23 votes.

 

Never happens.

Edited June 15, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[BlitzPig_EL]

I had to ban some players a couple times when I used to host in the old IL2,  once for a couple team killers, and once for a squad that demanded that I stop the mission and ad the FW 190 to the plane set.

 

It was a 1942 Pacific scenario.

 

I explained to them that the Germans did not fly FW 190s in the Pacific, but they kept spamming the chat, and taking up player slots without flying, so, POOF!... I made them go away.

 

I'm surprised that this function is not available in this title.

[Willy__]

 

 

I'm surprised that this function is not available in this title.

 

Server admins can kick/ban anyone they want. There's also a vote ban for normal players, its just "hidden" and not many people know about it.

[Player2852]

~S~  Banning by ip not name correct..YES here

[Gambit21]

The problem with HL was that ubi didn't control it. They were wholly dependent on Jiri and his benevolence, because the old ubi.com launcher was horrible. There are better ways to do it without relying on a 3rd-party tool that has its own forums, its own account system, its own unaccountable admin(s), its own branding, etc. If the game had better native community tools, HL would never have been necessary in the first place.

 

 

I agree.

I want "Hyperlobbyesque" functionality, but native to the game itself.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, it was Wings of Liberty, and to be honest

 

 

However, the Game also gave me Alerts for Friendly Fire when I Dog Fought a P-40 in my Stuka (successfully). 

 

The General MP UI is quite primitive and prone to Fake News. 

[JG13_opcode]

Well, it was Wings of Liberty, and to be honest

 

[...]

 

However, the Game also gave me Alerts for Friendly Fire when I Dog Fought a P-40 in my Stuka (successfully). 

 

The General MP UI is quite primitive and prone to Fake News.

So what's your point?

 

Do you disagree that we need better community-management tools?

[Willy__]

 

 

However, the Game also gave me Alerts for Friendly Fire when I Dog Fought a P-40 in my Stuka (successfully).   

 

 

Was it low level near the targets ? Sometimes I shoot at enemy planes that are diving towards our targets and some of the bullets hit the groundtargets and I get those warnings of friendly fire.

[Thad]

Isn't there a server setting to cause damage caused to a friendly to be allocated to the offender craft instead?

[JimTM]

Isn't there a server setting to cause damage caused to a friendly to be allocated to the offender craft instead?

 

Yes, the "Friendly fire return" setting causes damage to the attacker, but does not prevent the target from being damaged.

 

Friendly fire return

Does the following if a player hits a friendly object:

- Applies damage to the player's plane

- Shows the message "fired on a friendly" in the chat window

- Reduces the player's points to zero for the current flight

Edited June 15, 2017 by JimTM

[Guest deleted@83466]

Isn't there a server setting to cause damage caused to a friendly to be allocated to the offender craft instead?

 

I think there is, but I hope they never do this.  Unintentional friendly fire does happen a lot obviously for understandable reasons, and when they implement things like this which dumb the game down and provide some very artificial form of punishment to discourage the occasional troll, the trolls win.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Iceworm

[JimTM]

 

 

Was it low level near the targets ? Sometimes I shoot at enemy planes that are diving towards our targets and some of the bullets hit the groundtargets and I get those warnings of friendly fire.

 

 

You can sometimes get "fired on a friendly" messages while attacking an enemy plane at low level over an enemy target. This can occur if the mission designer forgets to set the country of a target object properly. The default country for objects is "Neutral", which is considered friendly to human players and an enemy to AI objects.

Edited June 15, 2017 by JimTM

[Riderocket]

I appreciate the productive post from Opcode.

 

For one, we need something similar to the old system (Hyperlobby) where hosting a CoOp, or a dogfight room was as simple as logging in, selecting your mission and launching.

I was forced to kick a number of people in the old sim from my CoOps for team killing, and on the few occasions when they showed up again, keeping them out was simple with this system...and it was done from within the game itself.

CoOps also tend to attract different, more team/mission oriented players than your typical air-quake room. Thus the occasions where I ran into this issue were very few.

 

CoOps are on the way, although I'm still unclear how they will be implemented in BoX.

My hope is that eventually we'll be back more or less to the old functionality. as this would go a long ways towards keeping the element we're talking about at bay, not to mention

greatly increase the number and variety of available online missions.

Co-op will be the same as RoF

[Guest deleted@83466]

Co-op will be the same as RoF

 

I had to ask an experienced player who was in RoF for many years explain to me what a CoOp was, and he also added that CoOps were largely a disaster.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Yes the vote ban system does work.
(we have banned a few team killers on WOL)

Banning by IP is often pointless these days as many ISP offer free non static IP's
(like mine EVERYTIME i reboot my modem i get a completely new IP in last 2 years maybe had 500 IP's with reboots/power cuts)

Just Perma ban the accounts from a server after so many Team kills - (NOT Friendly fire, as many things can cause that)
(even if they change their name or IP it bans the game ID thats tied to what they bought)

For the most part its just a Server problem.
Report it to the person running server (wol - Gargarin) and they can ban the Unique Game ID's

 

[Riderocket]

I had to ask an experienced player who was in RoF for many years explain to me what a CoOp was, and he also added that CoOps were largely a disaster.

It was..

 

So hopefully they make it better then RoF

[FuriousMeow]

I had to ask an experienced player who was in RoF for many years explain to me what a CoOp was, and he also added that CoOps were largely a disaster.

 

That's not true. That's how wars were run. It just required player honesty, which as this thread shows some aren't because they are toddlers.

[Ribbon]

Never saw those ban/kick votes neither know how to vote, so i agree with OP.

Also something to avoid voting from just anger toward other players.

There are a lot of new players who doesn't know how to recognise friendly plane with result of friendly fire.

If player constantly repeats friendly fire and kill teammates it should automatic pop out message to admin and kick him, or if couple of players report teamkilling.

Also if player repeat it constantly he should get perma ban from that server.

[Quax]

• Better in-game administration tools.  The current "vote ban" system is not good because half the players don't even know about it, and it takes too long.  What should happen is: One player initiates a vote, and then everyone is given the opportunity to press, say, F1 to vote Yes, and F2 to vote no.  One keystroke, nice and easy.  Pop-up a message on the screen to alert players that a vote is taking place.

 

I fear this could be used by the "bad guys" too. They will abuse the system and make it useless and annoying. I favor the stronger admin tool idea. The server admin (and his delegates) - via admin password - should be able to kick and permanently ban the bad guys. There are inadvertant friendly fires as well, as in RL. Automatic friendly fire bans would be annoying. Especially if it detects you flying into your own bomb debris and kicking you for inadvertantly killing yourself

[Feathered_IV]

Wasn't there some sort of Sky Marshall feature being added to the game this year?  Maybe one of their powers could be the ability to kick or ban disruptive players.

[jaydee]

Very good post OP !... I am sure there are Single-Players that read your Post and said "That is why I don't fly Online...Ill stick to SP ". I first tried Online about 20 years ago and Hated my first experience...Never again ! .....Until I discovered there were different Servers with Different Rules.

The Server Setup determines the Pilots it attracts !

If a Server encourages Scoreboard Flying with Little "Realism" , it will attract that sort of Pilot. ... And that's OK... I Don't believe in telling anybody "How they should Play " their BOX....But I wont Fly in that Server.

I have never Flown Co-op. I understand why some are Vocal for BOX Co-op. These Pilots are Taking Flying Together very Seriously.  They want to Take-off, Fly and achieve their objective..  They don't care about the Score. They don't want to Encounter some Scoreboard Pilot when RTB...

The Level of Difficulty, Icons ,Penalties, etc  all  create the Server Environment !...

...If there was a Server that had "No Respawn" for one Hour. "No kills until the Pilot RTB ", Bailing Out is "Captured" for one Hour ?...I don't think you would  meet the Pilots the OP describes.

IMHO, The Server Decides its Clientelle !

EDIT : Something I forgot to mention !  GAMEPLAY !..Nothing better that Seeing your Sortie has Helped your Team.. If you are a Lone Wolfe or Co-op doesn't matter....

The Server again decides.

~S~

 

​​

Edited June 15, 2017 by jaydee

[Luftschiff]

TK incidents have certainly seen a sharp rise recently. I encountered a group of players, none of which were on OP's list, who'd spawn in on airfields in Heinkels and use the gunners to shoot up aircraft trying to take off or land. There was also a 109 circling the airfield shooting down anyone that managed to get away from the heinkel. Effectively locked down the only front airfield for ~30 minutes. I've seen 109's drop in on a formation of Heinkels and take out the entire thing out of spite. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. All these...moments....will be lost...

 

I think the best catch-all solution is an auto-kick/ban feature, but I'd also like to see the treshold for voteban lowered a tad. Made easier if possible. Good suggestions overall.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Luftschiff

[Herne]

Honestly speaking as someone who has only recently started playing regularly (VR Patch) and has had a good few FF Incidents on WoL, that IMO protecting your score from noobs, should very much come second place to kicking and banning those same noobs.

You should be focusing on how you can help them play better, and feel welcome rather than trying to drive them away, and throw their copy of IL2 in the recycle bin.

Increased MP presence is good for everybody, its good for the devs, and the future of IL2, it's good for the community. I understand your frustration, but locking the server down so only experienced pro's are allowed would be a real turn off to most new people. I'd rather see IL2 thrive and do well for many years to come than be an exclusive title for the same few players.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Honestly speaking as someone who has only recently started playing regularly (VR Patch) and has had a good few FF Incidents on WoL, that IMO protecting your score from noobs, should very much come second place to kicking and banning those same noobs.

 

You should be focusing on how you can help them play better, and feel welcome rather than trying to drive them away, and throw their copy of IL2 in the recycle bin.

 

Increased MP presence is good for everybody, its good for the devs, and the future of IL2, it's good for the community. I understand your frustration, but locking the server down so only experienced pro's are allowed would be a real turn off to most new people. I'd rather see IL2 thrive and do well for many years to come than be an exclusive title for the same few players.

Those guys do not make mistake they do it on purpose. Voting ban should be effective by lesser numbers of voters. 4 should be enough and there is change that two more players saw it and one or two know samone who voted and plays by rules.

Otherwise it wouldn't work in that big players numbers, kicking by more that 50 % worked in others games with small players numbers like 4 vs 4 teamplay on small maps.

Edited June 15, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[Mukai]

I thought I was having bad luck on that server last night, admittedly I did get bounced by Flaperon in a mig first (didn't see him at all, neither did my gunners apparently lol), but I just looked at my sortie for my second run in my HE111 (which caused me to jump into a ju88 in frustration) and I wasn't hit by an enemy at all http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/1981878/?tour=23 (PS I know my stats are terrible, I've not played since December (As i had to move and only recently got by flight gear set back up) and even then I was just getting into the game so yeah I'm pretty terrible at this game )

But yeah, the team killing last night was pretty ridiculous, you couldn't read chat because there was too many penalty notices at one point. 

[JaffaCake]

The proposed changes are a gross overreaction.

 

Report them to admins, record video and they will get banned. If they want to spend another 70$ x 5 to get several more hours of trolling - well they sure support the developer.

 

If they found how to connect to the server without using authentic key we have a much bigger problem on our hands than a few trolls.

 

Besides the trolls we need to learn to suck up a few occasional teamkills from the newbies, otherwise we'll soon won't have anyone to fly with/against at all.

 

I have seen many occasions when vote ban was initiated by player who disagreed with somebody else. WoL is particularly prone to it as some groups of people enjoy strafing the runways while other groups enjoy voting to ban them for it. Making a ban easy and visible will cause people to ban somebody on a whim without good reason.

Edited June 15, 2017 by JaffaCake

[Tomsk]

3. The ability to define thresholds for friendly fire that will cause the server to automatically kick and/or ban problem players

 

This is my preferred approach in general, they need to be set appropriately so that accidents are permitted, but trolling is not. The problem with vote based kicking/banning is that if someone initiates a vote to kick/ban someone I wouldn't vote in favour unless I had personally seen that player causing problems. Otherwise it's just as easy to troll by starting spurious kick/ban requests as by team killing ...

[Ribbon]

The proposed changes are a gross overreaction.

 

Report them to admins, record video and they will get banned. If they want to spend another 70$ x 5 to get several more hours of trolling - well they sure support the developer.

 

If they found how to connect to the server without using authentic key we have a much bigger problem on our hands than a few trolls.

 

Besides the trolls we need to learn to suck up a few occasional teamkills from the newbies, otherwise we'll soon won't have anyone to fly with/against at all.

 

I have seen many occasions when vote ban was initiated by player who disagreed with somebody else. WoL is particularly prone to it as some groups of people enjoy strafing the runways while other groups enjoy voting to ban them for it. Making a ban easy and visible will cause people to ban somebody on a whim without good reason.

You're right, i'm afraid new system could be abused (mostly toward newbies which could chase them away from MP) even we are mature community.

Since we are small group of ppl supporting this game it shouldn't be problem to find,

record and report trolls. Ban will follow.

[JG13_opcode]

These are features that every modern multiplayer title has had since the early 2000s.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm in full support of the proposed features.

 

These are standard features for most multiplayer games and IMHO quite reasonable. Yes there is the small chance of admin abuse but that doesn't get you very far and its especially not a smart thing to do in a small community. Too much of that and servers will empty and stay empty by reputation.

 

The problem is that abusive players behaving as described will empty servers quickly and ruin a lot of peoples fun continually.

 

As an admin on the Battlefields servers for years, we saw a parade of players coming through with no intention of trying to play the server. Only to mess things up for everyone. Strafing friendlies on the ground. Sitting in a bomber and shooting up players as they spawned. All kinds of ridiculous stuff that you just can't conceive of. We even had a couple of guys keep coming in to fly "airshows" at a spawn location and then crash into people taking off, spawning, etc. There are folks who don't really fit into the mold of people interesting in playing. Just trolling.

 

You can put some automatic controls in that limit this. Especially if a large amount of negative points are accrued and they are auto kicked (or auto banned at discretion) but you also need admin kick and or kick/ban controls from within the client. That way a lot of admins can work a server and keep things under control.

 

These things are only a net positive.

Edited June 15, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive