Why We Fly What We Fly

[SYN_Ricky]

Online I mostly fly VVS because usually I find them to be outnumbered when I join. Not really a problem, as I really love taking an Il-2, I-16 or Pe-2 and do some ground pounding/bombing. If I manage to get on the LW side, I usually take a He-111/JU-88 or a Bf-110.

Offline I fly all of the planes, in career mode generally fighters or fighter/bombers.

[Higaluto]

Mostly the 109s, done so since 2001 and the original series. I fly most of the time solo so its nice to have that escape option, also trying out the fw190 with reqiuem's track ir profile and changed them a little bit for personal pref. Never liked that cockpit view but now its much better with new profile.

 

I also got the yak1b, have to try it out, beautiful plane.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Higaluto

[JaffaCake]

I fly mostly pe-2 and yak1b on occasion. I do not have a particular affinity to either faction - these two craft are simply the best in the game as it is currently and I prefer flying the best available craft.

[LLv24_Zami]

I play 99% offline and fly pretty much anything this game offers. I like the variety and doing different kind of missions, otherwise it gets boring.

 

Rare occasions I'm online, I mostly fly Yak because VVS is always outnumbered.

[Beazil]

I fly almost everything. I'm a person who is still trying to learn to level bomb effectively with the he111 or ju88. I know lots of people find it easy, but I find it a real challenge.

I love the German fighters because I have flown them since I started simming. The FW or 109 are favorites.

On the VVS side, I enjoy the hawk, but it is a dog compared to some others. "Dem fitties doh..." annihilate anything they get a burst on.

For some reason I enjoy the Lagg3 and La5 as well.

 

Edit: actually, I could say something positive about every plane we have if I take an instant to think about it.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Beazil

[F/JG300_Gruber]

He111, H6 and H16

Better than the 88 as level bomber, wonderful clear view for navigation, and an exceptional glider that brought me back to base more than once with both engines dead. I just feel at home in the cockpit.

And so far, I haven't found anything more satisfying than pressing the release button of that nuclear-like SC2500 over the objective. 

I also love the sleek overall shape even if speed-wise it is rather unimpressive.

Edited June 12, 2017 by F/JG300_Gruber

[JG13_opcode]

I think you should reconsider how you give yourself permission to behave when you post here.

I doubt you act this way in real life - at least I hope not.

Why are you even replying to me?

 

Seriously? Was that even remotely close to what I said?

 

The very fact that the 109s are super easy to fly in combat makes it a GOOD fighter, not a bad one, and it by no means negates the skill of the pilot. A poor 109 pilot will be killed over and over again (albeit less than he would be flying a LaGG) while a good 109 pilot can be virtually unstoppable.

 

Personally I have little interest in the 109 (save for the Emil) - kinda grew tired of it in IL2-1946 - but no judgement on people who fly it.

 

It's definitely possible I misinterpreted, but it sure seemed like an indictment of people who fly the 109.  Combined with the other mention of the 109 being a Con point, it reads like you're saying that since the 109 takes "only half a brain" to fly, then it's a plane for simpletons and idiots, and that people who like it are simpletons and idiots.

 

If that's wrong, then, my apologies.

Edited June 12, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[Warpig]

I always favored the Germans. Speed, firepower, and good looks. It's still a toss-up which I prefer more, the 109's or 190's. It seems to lean towards the 190, as I get more experience.

[Gambit21]

Why are you even replying to me?

.

Now there's a good question.

[Finkeren]

It's definitely possible I misinterpreted, but it sure seemed like an indictment of people who fly the 109. Combined with the other mention of the 109 being a Con point, it reads like you're saying that since the 109 takes "only half a brain" to fly, then it's a plane for simpletons and idiots, and that people who like it are simpletons and idiots.

 

If that's wrong, then, my apologies.

What I wrote was purely my own personal aversion to the 109. I flew the 109 a lot in IL2-1946 right from the original first game, and at some point I just got fed up with it.

 

The fact is though, that the 109s maginificent performance (in all incarnations) and the fact that it's quite forgiving to handling mistakes makes it an easy ride to fly and fight in. It doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of great pilots who fly it, but it means, that even quite mediocre pilots can do very well in it, in ways they couldn't do with any other plane.

 

To put it another way: If you fly the 109 it doesn't mean you're not a good pilot, but on the other hand, if you do well with the 109 it doesn't necesarilly mean that you're a good pilot either. A pilot who does really well and outflies all his opponents in a LaGG-3 has the hallmark of a great fighter pilot. If one does the same in a Bf 109F4, it's just not quite as impressive.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Finkeren

[Brano]

One can be simpleton and/or idiot even with both halves of the brain. One half is not a condition :D

[Gambit21]

What I wrote was purely my own personal aversion to the 109. I flew the 109 a lot in IL2-1946 right from the original first game, and at some point I just got fed up with it.

 

The fact is though, that the 109s maginificent performance (in all incarnations) and the fact that it's quite forgiving to handling mistakes makes it an easy ride to fly and fight in. It doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of great pilots who fly it, but it means, that even quite mediocre pilots can do very well in it, in ways they couldn't do with any other plane.

 

Yep

I've said as much in other threads.

The 109's feels like I'm flying with aids turned on after flying a Yak. What I appreciate about that is that it lets me concentrate purely on ACM - which is helpful since I get rusty with engine management (very little stick time)

 

So yes - it takes less of my bandwidth to operate effectively. Easier to pick up and fly after an extended break - at the same time less rewarding for me because of this.

[GrendelsDad]

I fly the JU-52 just to annoy sinned

[ACG_Invictus]

I've always found the Yak to be rather simple to fly and fight with, especially the 1b but even the regular model. If you can catch a 109 co-E or (better) have a slight E advantage, he's usually toast unless you make a huge mistake or he just flat outruns you i.e. it is sometimes called a "run09" for a reason.

 

That's another reason why I fly the E7. Outrunning anything is really not an option. Even LaGGs can outrun me at times...which I admit is frustrating and a bit embarrassing. ;-)

[Gambit21]

Yeah simple when you're flying regularly - I always have to remind myself of where to keep things set, which takes me a 'refamiliarization session', which I tend to procrastinate on.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Gambit21

[Lusekofte]

 

 

I get that it's fashionable on here to hate on the 109 and the people who like to fly it, but boy, the constant "hurr durr if u fly 109 u r stupid and an asshole" on here is getting really old.

 

Personally I see no difference in 109 pilots and yak pilots. they wanna fly the best available fighter and sneak up on one another, not my cup of tea , but if you are having fun, why not. However there is a historical reason in this forum for some presumptions made by a few 

[Finkeren]

I've always found the Yak to be rather simple to fly and fight with, especially the 1b but even the regular model. If you can catch a 109 co-E or (better) have a slight E advantage, he's usually toast unless you make a huge mistake or he just flat outruns you i.e. it is sometimes called a "run09" for a reason.

While the Yak-1 (both versions) are very easy to fly as well, I definitely don't agree, that it holds the upper hand against a co-E 109F or G, not even close. The 109 climbs and accelerates waaaaaaaaaaay better at all altitudes (as I demonstrated myself in tests I did just last week) meaning he can basically just extend away and get out on top with a huge advantage in a matter of seconds (provided the 109 pilot is not completely useless and burns energy needlessly through sloppy piloting)

 

Basically the 109 holds three out of four aces against the Yaks in a 1vs1 duel: Top speed, climb rate and accelleration. Only sustained maneuverability is on the side of the Yak.

[Aap]

I like Bf109 the most and I don't even need a reason for it. I have just always liked it.

If I need to come up with the reasons for it - I think it is the most iconic plane of WWII. It served from the beginning of the war until the end; in the east, in the west, in the north and in the south; up high and down low. Not only with Germany, but also with minor powers - Finland, Hungary, Romania, Croatia, being the plane of their top aces. It even served with neutral Switzerland that used it to shoot down German planes that had crossed Swiss borders.

 

When it comes to this game, looking at my WoL stats I see that I actually have Yak-1 listed as my favorite plane most often during the last year. I guess that is mostly because Red side has often had less pilots when I have joined the server. In addition to Yak and different Bf109 models, I have also had Fw190 and Bf110 listed as my favorite planes. I like to try them all out occasionally.

[9./JG27DefaultFace]

Sometimes I wonder what world some of you people live in. Maybe in the classic flight tests the 109 performs better but not in any sort of real dogfight. In a real fight, (not BnZ) co energy the Yak does everything just as well as the 109 or better, and you barely have to do any work for it. No engine work, no rudder work, nothing. Just turn without pulling like a maniac and pop the flaps at the right moment and you're good.

[Finkeren]

Sometimes I wonder what world some of you people live in. Maybe in the classic flight tests the 109 performs better but not in any sort of real dogfight. In a real fight, (not BnZ) co energy the Yak does everything just as well as the 109 or better, and you barely have to do any work for it. No engine work, no rudder work, nothing. Just turn without pulling like a maniac and pop the flaps at the right moment and you're good.

Sounds like someone's playing exactly the game a Yak opponent would want you to play. If you are turning with a Yak on the deck, you are asking for it.

 

Fight vertical, that's what the 109 is for. And no, that's not the same as BnZ.

 

All dogfighting is energy fighting, and the 109 is just better at it, not just on paper. The one thing the Yak has going for it is the lower wingloading, which means that it conserves energy better in a tight turn fight.

[StG2_Manfred]

Sounds like someone's playing exactly the game a Yak opponent would want you to play. If you are turning with a Yak on the deck, you are asking for it.

 

Fight vertical, that's what the 109 is for. And no, that's not the same as BnZ.

 

All dogfighting is energy fighting, and the 109 is just better at it, not just on paper. The one thing the Yak has going for it is the lower wingloading, which means that it conserves energy better in a tight turn fight.

 

This again is one of your typical propaganda posts where you try to imply that if anything goes wrong it's the fault of the pilot. Somehow this reminds me of your statements about the 190 BEFORE the FM update.

 

Can you demonstrate what you are talking about? Provide video evidence, you vertical fighting in the 109?

[Gambit21]

It's amazing how much some see what they want to see in a post, rather than what's actually, very clearly written.

[9./JG27DefaultFace]

Sounds like someone has never actually tried a dogfight, vertical or otherwise against a human Yak pilot. Go fly vertically and watch the Yak 1 stall out after you, loop inside you, hang off the propeller and flaps and chew you to pieces. Ill say it once again, that is also not the only way 109s are or were flown.

Edited June 12, 2017 by 9./JG27DefaultFace

[II/JG11_ATLAN_VR]

Motley german fighters

FW 190 A3 for his speed and firepower

Bf 109 E7 i like the FM

Bf 109 F2 and F4 for dogfights

 

Russian YAK 1 only easy to fly and Deadly dogfighter

Edited June 12, 2017 by II/JG11ATLAN

[Aap]

My opinion, Yak is the easiest to fly and most forgiving to mistakes. It seems like it is almost impossible to lose control of the plane. You are not able to damage your engine - and if you somehow get it damaged, you will make it back to base. I have noticed that when maneuvering in really high speed dives, you lose your ailerons more easily than in 109, but even when losing both ailerons there is no problem to fly back and land at your base.

 

But when it comes to combat, 109 has a decisive advantage that it can pick it's fights. If you understand the basics of energy and are able to avoid the temptation of getting into turning or looping dogfight with a Yak, you will at least survive. If you see that you are getting in too much trouble and have not made decisive mistakes, you can just disengage, while in Yak you have to take the fight if the 109 pilot decides that he wants to fight.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

My opinion, Yak is the easiest to fly and most forgiving to mistakes. It seems like it is almost impossible to lose control of the plane. You are not able to damage your engine - and if you somehow get it damaged, you will make it back to base. I have noticed that when maneuvering in really high speed dives, you lose your ailerons more easily than in 109, but even when losing both ailerons there is no problem to fly back and land at your base.

 

But when it comes to combat, 109 has a decisive advantage that it can pick it's fights. If you understand the basics of energy and are able to avoid the temptation of getting into turning or looping dogfight with a Yak, you will at least survive. If you see that you are getting in too much trouble and have not made decisive mistakes, you can just disengage, while in Yak you have to take the fight if the 109 pilot decides that he wants to fight.

this is pretty much spot on...

some people really claim that the yak is harder to handle and the 109 is "easy mode" compared to it? i really would love to see these guys online in 109s   

[Gambit21]

I just don't get much practice right now, so yeah for me the 109 is much easier to do well with after I haven't flown in months.

However I like the Yak better.

 

I plan on getting back to flying on a regular basis, then back online again at some point and this will be moot and maybe I'll have a different opinion.

Those of you that get lots of stick time won't notice the admittedly simple Yak management getting in your way at all.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

My opinion, Yak is the easiest to fly and most forgiving to mistakes. It seems like it is almost impossible to lose control of the plane. You are not able to damage your engine - and if you somehow get it damaged, you will make it back to base. I have noticed that when maneuvering in really high speed dives, you lose your ailerons more easily than in 109, but even when losing both ailerons there is no problem to fly back and land at your base.

 

But when it comes to combat, 109 has a decisive advantage that it can pick it's fights. If you understand the basics of energy and are able to avoid the temptation of getting into turning or looping dogfight with a Yak, you will at least survive. If you see that you are getting in too much trouble and have not made decisive mistakes, you can just disengage, while in Yak you have to take the fight if the 109 pilot decides that he wants to fight.

After loosing both ailerons in next second you loose is rudder control then you can't do much. When you loose one aileron and make it out before second is off you have chance otherwise very slim. 109 or yak with energy advantage you have some margin for mistake or two but maybe for one in p40 or laag.

[StG2_Manfred]

My opinion, Yak is the easiest to fly and most forgiving to mistakes. It seems like it is almost impossible to lose control of the plane. You are not able to damage your engine - and if you somehow get it damaged, you will make it back to base. I have noticed that when maneuvering in really high speed dives, you lose your ailerons more easily than in 109, but even when losing both ailerons there is no problem to fly back and land at your base.

 

But when it comes to combat, 109 has a decisive advantage that it can pick it's fights. If you understand the basics of energy and are able to avoid the temptation of getting into turning or looping dogfight with a Yak, you will at least survive. If you see that you are getting in too much trouble and have not made decisive mistakes, you can just disengage, while in Yak you have to take the fight if the 109 pilot decides that he wants to fight.

Yes, here I agree. But when you disengage you often get shot down at distances of 600 to 700 meters! Not from a lucky single hit but from a whole salvo. Seems there is almost no ballistic. Very implausible in my opinion. I admit not to know that much about Russian fighter training, but German pilots were clearly advised not to shoot at such distances, because of the bad hitting rates at those distances.

Edited June 12, 2017 by StG2_Manfred

[Guest deleted@83466]

Yes, here I agree. But when you disengage you often get shot down at distances of 600 to 700 meters! Not from a lucky single hit but from a whole salvo. Seems there is almost no ballistic. Very implausible in my opinion. I admit not to know that much about Russian fighter training, but German pilots were clearly advised not to shoot at such distances, because of the bad hitting rates at those distances.

 

6 or 700 meters?  C'mon man, that's pretty rare.  Maybe if Rambo is on your 6, but otherwise, no....

[JG13_opcode]

 

 

The one thing the Yak has going for it is the lower wingloading, which means that it conserves energy better in a tight turn fight.

Actually, that means it'll do better in any prolonged turn, tight or not.  Lower wingloading means less induced drag, which means less "energy bleed".

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Yes, here I agree. But when you disengage you often get shot down at distances of 600 to 700 meters! Not from a lucky single hit but from a whole salvo. Seems there is almost no ballistic. Very implausible in my opinion. I admit not to know that much about Russian fighter training, but German pilots were clearly advised not to shoot at such distances, because of the bad hitting rates at those distances.

Only if 109 hangs before stall there is chance to score hits from afar same when he slow climbs in curved path. But that discances are exaggerated. I would like to see some statistics. It can happen but very rarely hence insignificant.

[3./JG15_Kampf]

German airplanes are good fighters when they are on the offensive. When they are fighting in the defense, you need to have comrades nearby to clean your six. German aircraft do not work very well in the defensive, especially at low speeds.

I like to fly Fw190A3 and A5

VVS like the LA5

Edited June 13, 2017 by JAGER_Kampf

[Gambit21]

I love that La-5.

I'm not very good in it right now...but it's one of my favorites from a "feel" standpoint alongside the I-16 and P-40.

...and the Il2...and A5.

 

I love em all really. 

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Sounds like someone has never actually tried a dogfight, vertical or otherwise against a human Yak pilot.

For those that rarely or don't fly online-

You absolutely can not compare how an AI pilot uses a plane vs even the average human opponent.

 

AI pilots are nothing other than accurate shooting target practice drones that only push the plane to a fraction of what online human pilots do.

 

To those that fly with icons on -

Again with total Situational Awareness, you can disengage early and start using your planes performance advantages to avoid being in a disadvantaged energy state. Without icons though, unless you fly and take minimal risks not helping your team you will quickly find yourself in a position of reduced SA and being in co E or disadvantaged energy states against previously unseen pilots.

[ACG_Invictus]

While the Yak-1 (both versions) are very easy to fly as well, I definitely don't agree, that it holds the upper hand against a co-E 109F or G, not even close. The 109 climbs and accelerates waaaaaaaaaaay better at all altitudes (as I demonstrated myself in tests I did just last week) meaning he can basically just extend away and get out on top with a huge advantage in a matter of seconds (provided the 109 pilot is not completely useless and burns energy needlessly through sloppy piloting)

 

Basically the 109 holds three out of four aces against the Yaks in a 1vs1 duel: Top speed, climb rate and accelleration. Only sustained maneuverability is on the side of the Yak.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree.  

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Flaps vs slats

[9./JG27DefaultFace]

Last time I checked the slats don't defy physics. I guess they should have made them out of wood.

[StG2_Manfred]

6 or 700 meters?  C'mon man, that's pretty rare.  Maybe if Rambo is on your 6, but otherwise, no....

 

 

Only if 109 hangs before stall there is chance to score hits from afar same when he slow climbs in curved path. But that discances are exaggerated. I would like to see some statistics. It can happen but very rarely hence insignificant.

 

Today I'm not at home, but tomorrow I'll upload you video record from Berloga where you can see it on your own. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Last time I checked the slats don't defy physics. I guess they should have made them out of wood.

Both are used in the edges of flying envelope and help control plane at low speeds.