Jason - Please can we have a Hurri?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The Hurri is a fun plane to fly no doubt, my preference over it though would be the Spitfire so am glad they chose to model that one first. 

I seem to be one of the very Few Fans of P-40s here. I would love to see how a P-40B or C would perform against a Hurri. 

 

I think I will expand my Wish List with a P-36 as well. P-40 v P-36 would ´be a Fun Duel probably.

 

[Trooper117]

I'll always go for the P-40b over the one we have in game... still want a Hurri though

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

P-40 v P-36 would ´be a Fun Duel probably.

 

Hurri mk II (Soviet) vs Hurri mk I (Finnish/Romanian)

[No145_Bunny]

I wonder if there is any interest in creating a crowd funding project for the Hurricane.

I for one would pay upfront for the Hurricane  if I knew the developers would make it once the correct amount of money is achieved to create the plane in game.

 

There is a question of course, how much money would be required for the devs to make the aircraft ? £500 ?, £5000 ? Would love to know

 

Bunster

Edited June 14, 2017 by No145_Bunny

[Dutchvdm]

I wonder if there is any interest in creating a crowd funding project for the Hurricane.

I for one would pay upfront for the Hurricane  if I knew the developers would make it once the correct amount of money is achieved to create the plane in game.

 

There is a question of course, how much money would be required for the devs to make the aircraft ? £500 ?, £5000 ? Would love to know

 

Bunster

 

A crowdfunding sounds nice, and when it comes to funding the work i think it would be a decent solution. But i think the main problem now is the capacity of the team itself. It's not unreasonable to think that the backlog for the team is full until Kuban is delivered. After that the next milestone is Midway. Which will probably take a lot of effort. 

 

My dream would be the CA method for Total War. Two teams with both different goals and milestones. One team would focus on Midway and the Pacific. Another team would make DLC and expand the already existing franchises. But for another team, they would need a lot of more money, and i think the flight-sim community just isn't big enough for that. 

 

The irony is that we want DLC... Where most developer's get publicly flogged when they even mention selling things other then the main product. 

 

Grt M

Edited June 14, 2017 by Martijnvdm

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

This ^^

 

It's not money, per se, it's time. We'd need to pay for an extra, talented, full time body. Funding an aircraft or two doesn't do much in this context. You can't take a current body off the main project for side work even with cash in hand. There is no short term solution unfortunately.

[Danziger]

We need to crowdfund the hiring of more personnel lol.

[Finkeren]

I understand why the devs have chosen to shy away from crowdfunding, and historically I think it was a good idea. However, I think by now the idea deserves a second thought. The devs have established a very solid reputation and have clearly demonstrated their commitment to improving the sim rather than just expanding it and sell more stuff.

 

I think a crowdfunding initiative would be a huge success.

[Brano]

There is a question of course, how much money would be required for the devs to make the aircraft ? £500 ?, £5000 ? Would love to know

Be sure to multiply those 5000 pounds by "a lot" 

[Dutchvdm]

Be sure to multiply those 5000 pounds by "a lot"

Amount of needed hours multiplied by the salesprice per manhour. How many hours? 500? 1000?

 

Bottomline i think that 50.000 dollar per aircraft is even on the low end.

 

Grt M

[Brano]

My wild guesstimate is somewhere in between 50-100k us dollars for single engine aircraft.

[Gambit21]

Amount of needed hours multiplied by the salesprice per manhour. How many hours? 500? 1000?

 

M

More..WAY more than 1000 hours would be my educated guess.

1000 hours is only 2 guys working for 3 months or so. That amount of time/man hours could easily account for just external modeling and maybe a start on the texturing - and that isn't even the most time consuming aspect of developing a new aircraft.

 

I'm sure Jason wishes he could task 6 guys to cranking out a new aircraft every month.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Gambit21

[PatrickAWlson]

We need to crowdfund the hiring of more personnel lol.

Pretty much nailed it.  A new plane involves model, skins, FM, DM, and integration into the game.  About the only things that can be done by outside parties are the model and skins.  Everything else needs a 1C employee.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Pure speculation here. A game programmer in the states makes around a hundred K per year. 2080 hours in a work year. Rough guess is about 1000 hours for a single engine fighter - split three or four ways. Hourly in Russia is less than the States. I'd guess it's closer to 25-50k per aircraft..

 

Again, pure speculation on my part.

Edited June 14, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Finkeren]

More..WAY more than 1000 hours would be my educated guess.

1000 hours is only 2 guys working for 3 months or so. That amount of time/man hours could easily account for just external modeling and maybe a start on the texturing - and that isn't even the most time consuming aspect of developing a new aircraft.

 

I'm sure Jason wishes he could task 6 guys to cranking out a new aircraft every month.

IIRC Jason (or was it Han?) told us back when BoM was in development, that it took about 6 weeks to built a single seater from scratch to beta (not counting research) with around two guys working on it at a time (changing depending on stage of development). So if we assume a 45 hour work week during a busy development cycle, it's around 650 man hours. A wild guess obviously, and it probably varies a great deal from plane to plane (how many hours were sunk into the Fw 190 to get to where we are today?)

 

Also, it doesn't take into account the research work which could be hundreds of hours depending on how well documented the plane is.

[Gambit21]

I was loosely taking research into account as well.

I know just from my own aircraft modeling experience that it takes endless hours.

 

However, your number above seems shockingly fast. Even more impressive if that's the case.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Gambit21

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I was loosely taking research into account as well.

I know just from my own aircraft modeling experience that it takes endless hours.

 

However, your number above seems shockingly fast. Even more impressive if that's the case.

 

I've seen a couple shots of your work on the forums and the difference in model complexity is absolutely night and day.

 

6 weeks is attainable for most of BOX' selection because:

• Copy/pasted variants with altercations (major and minor) on important physical details
• Virtually no internal modeling of spars, systems, ribbing or even an engine.
• Acceptable (but low) polycount models

Edited June 14, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[Gambit21]

<p>

 

I've seen a couple shots of your work on the forums and the difference in model complexity is absolutely night and day.

 

6 weeks is attainable for most of BOX' selection because:

• Copy/pasted variants with altercations (major and minor) on important physical details
• Virtually no internal modeling of spars, systems, ribbing or even an engine.
• Acceptable (but low) polycount models

Oh...no doubt.

I have the luxury of adding much more geometry and detail for my models whuch are used for rendering/illustration purposes. Game models out of necessity must be much lower res.

 

On the other hand they need cockpits, which mine do not (thankfully)

 

Edit: ...and I should point that the difference in workflow between high res and low res isn't as great as you might imagine. In fact a lower res model is often more challenging and time consuming because you have to solve geometry problems with fewer polygons. So some things take longer to solve at game resolutions where can't just keep adding geometry all day.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Gambit21

[Livai]

IIRC Jason (or was it Han?) told us back when BoM was in development, that it took about 6 weeks to built a single seater from scratch to beta (not counting research) with around two guys working on it at a time (changing depending on stage of development). So if we assume a 45 hour work week during a busy development cycle, it's around 650 man hours. A wild guess obviously, and it probably varies a great deal from plane to plane (how many hours were sunk into the Fw 190 to get to where we are today?)

 

Also, it doesn't take into account the research work which could be hundreds of hours depending on how well documented the plane is.

 

Count one month for flyable plane and now count this in $$.

 

I think alone the plane model can cost around $2000 and this without animation and cockpit for the pilot or gunner. For Animation you pay for each minute or second around $20-$100. Not cheap............

 

[Edit] -> Count $10 000 for flyable fighter plane

Edited June 14, 2017 by Livai

[CanadaOne]

Any idea how many people have bought BOX?

[Dutchvdm]

Any idea how many people have bought BOX?

 

Hi CanadaOne,

 

BOS has almost 52,000 owners on Steam, so that's quiet a few. Total number will be higher because a lot of users don't buy there game through Steam or don't register it there (Like me). For BOM i have no idea. 

 

For BOK preorder it's easier. Just filter forummembers with the BOK premium tag. That's a little over 4200.

 

Grt M

[PatrickAWlson]

Oh...no doubt.

I have the luxury of adding much more geometry and detail for my models whuch are used for rendering/illustration purposes. Game models out of necessity must be much lower res.

 

On the other hand they need cockpits, which mine do not (thankfully)

 

Edit: ...and I should point that the difference in workflow between high res and low res isn't as great as you might imagine. In fact a lower res model is often more challenging and time consuming because you have to solve geometry problems with fewer polygons. So some things take longer to solve at game resolutions where can't just keep adding geometry all day.

 

I have always been told that the FM is the most difficult part.  It takes a specialized skill set and a lot of work.  I'm not even sure that  working on a new revision of an existing plane (Me109 G after Me109F for example) offers all that much in savings.  Different engine, modifications in shape, weight, CoG ... I'm sure that there is some reuse but I imagine not much.

[LLv34_Temuri]

I think I will expand my Wish List with a P-36 as well. P-40 v P-36 would ´be a Fun Duel probably.

 

I'd really like to see the P-36 too!

[Gambit21]

I have always been told that the FM is the most difficult part.  It takes a specialized skill set and a lot of work.  I'm not even sure that  working on a new revision of an existing plane (Me109 G after Me109F for example) offers all that much in savings.  Different engine, modifications in shape, weight, CoG ... I'm sure that there is some reuse but I imagine not much.

I have the same understanding regarding FM/time vs other things.

[Brano]

3D model is just the beginning. From that you need to do several LODs. You need to implement also damage model for them,set up kinematics,correct pivots according to engine requirements etc. This could be theoretically outsourced to some extent,as work in standard 3D modelling software is quite common job.

The most time consuming part is FM/DM.It can't be outsourced as this is their business core and unique system. And for that there is only Andrey Petrovich. Maybe other guys from engineering can help him here and there.He doesn't run an office full of minions to do the dirty work

[Gambit21]

...and LOD's are not simple.

One of the reasons I'm surprised on the 2 guys/6 weeks figure.

[ShamrockOneFive]

...and LOD's are not simple.

One of the reasons I'm surprised on the 2 guys/6 weeks figure.

 

I assume that they have VERY good coffee in the office.

[Finkeren]

...and LOD's are not simple.

One of the reasons I'm surprised on the 2 guys/6 weeks figure.

Disclaimer: The 2-guys-6-weeks figure was as I remember it off the top of my head. I'm pretty certain about the six weeks, but the average of two artists/programmers working on it at a time might well be wrong.

[Gambit21]

No worries - I'm sure it's fast/efficient whatever the case.