Procedure for using Ptab's

[fjacobsen]

I have experimentet with the Ptab bomblets.

 

As far as I have been able to find out, the Ptab's should be dropped from an altitude of between 70-100m AGL.

 

Using the VV-1 sight and have it set for 100m, flying 360 km/h I have a hard time getting succes even attacking transport coloumns.

 

I did have a few hits on Transport coloumns as well as hitting a ew tanks, but even if they are clustered together in 3, I only have been able to take out 1 of the 3.

 

Using the VV-1 sight with normal bombs seem to be quite accurate, so maybe the drop pattern of the small bomblets are different and thus the VV-1 sight markings  doesn´t work.

 

[Finkeren]

The problem as I have found out through a few tries is that there is a significant delay in the bombs starting to drop. When using the procedure laid out a few DDs back, I find that the bombs tend to fall ahead of the target, so I time the release 1-2 seconds early and generally achieve a hit on target area (which is still no guarantee of a kill)

Edited May 15, 2017 by Finkeren

[Haza]

Gents,

 

Not sure if it will help, but when I was on training mission watching from the outside, I inadvertently pressed the bomb key 3 times and 3 lots of cluster bombs came out.  Therefore, I'm not sure if you can select the number of bombs that you drop in one pass, however, when now attacking a column I just keep pressing the bomb key until no more drop out and I can take out a column of trucks (lorries) now.

 

In addition, I noted that having the local airfield elevation pressure set for altitude made a difference, also.

 

Regards

Edited May 15, 2017 by Haza

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, the Il-2 has 4 Bomb Bays, each filled with 60 PTABs if you take 240. If you are in Single Drop Mode ever Push of the Button releases one Bomb Bay, if you are in Drop 2 Mode it releases 2, 1 on the Left, one on the Right and if you are in Drop 4 Mode you Drop all at once. 

If you want a Short, Dense Spread and be gone after One Pass on Target you use the Drop 4 or Drop all Mode, if you want a Long, dispersed Drop on a Long Target you use Single Drop and count to 3 between Drops. 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3 Mississippi and if you want something inbetween you do the Double Drop and Count to 3 again between Drops. 

[fjacobsen]

Thank You all for the feedback.

Now I got something to work with

 

Any other means of finding target altitude, since airfield elevation and target elevation can be quite different ?

[=WH=PangolinWranglin]

I still just eye ball it.  Bombsights are just suggestions!

[-TBC-AeroAce]

The thing I have found is that even an on target drop is no guarantee of a destroyed target. They scatter randomly to some degree. I have seen them pass right through a line of tanks and hit the first and third but not the second even though they were all perfectly in line. I guess it is just the nature of the beast.

[Finkeren]

The thing I have found is that even an on target drop is no guarantee of a destroyed target. They scatter randomly to some degree. I have seen them pass right through a line of tanks and hit the first and third but not the second even though they were all perfectly in line. I guess it is just the nature of the beast.

Absolutely. It is by its very nature a rather random scattergun.

 

Still your best bet for getting a kill in any one single attack, and that's the whole idea: to minimize the number of attack runs you have to do to achieve a kill. A fully loaded Bf 110G2 has larger killing potential, but that does you little good if you have to hang around and make repeated attacks.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I actually still haven't achieved a kill on any tanks with the PTABs yet. Probably just unlucky. I'm still working on the best timing and delivery. There is definitely a delay in the drop which is why I missed a lot on my first few tries. Now I'm getting better at the speed/timing.

[Finkeren]

I actually still haven't achieved a kill on any tanks with the PTABs yet. Probably just unlucky. I'm still working on the best timing and delivery. There is definitely a delay in the drop which is why I missed a lot on my first few tries. Now I'm getting better at the speed/timing.

What I'm finding is, that altitude also plays a part. If you come in too low, skimming right above the turrets of your targets, the attack almost never has effect. I guess it's because the bomblets don't have time to straingten their flight and thus hits at an angle where they are useless.

 

I usually aim for 2-3 times the height of the tallest nearby tree as drop altitude.

[ShamrockOneFive]

What I'm finding is, that altitude also plays a part. If you come in too low, skimming right above the turrets of your targets, the attack almost never has effect. I guess it's because the bomblets don't have time to straingten their flight and thus hits at an angle where they are useless.

 

I usually aim for 2-3 times the height of the tallest nearby tree as drop altitude.

 

I should check my altitude for sure. I thought I was high enough but maybe I'm not!

[-TBC-AeroAce]

U will always want to drop early so the target is in the middle of the stream of bomblets unlike an actual bomb that needs to be dead on. Lol kinda makes u wonder how they hit anything without the avionics of an A10

[Finkeren]

Lol kinda makes u wonder how they hit anything without the avionics of an A10

As we have learned from comparing after action reports with ground casualties, most of the time they didn't actually hit anything, which is part of the reason why cluster bombs like PTAB were developed in the first place.

 

This goes for all aircraft types in all air forces in WW2, but the IL-2 was especially notoriously ineffective when using conventional bombs.

[fjacobsen]

Releasing  appr. 2 seconds earlier seems to help alot, but though the bomblets cover a larger area, they still need to be released with precision.

I have yet to hit more than 1 tank pre pass in QMB with 3 Tanks.

 

As Finkeren says...

In WW2, but also in later wars actual hits where far fewer than those reported by the crews, and even today using "dumb" boms is a hit and miss (mostly miss), but so where also aerial kills.

[Finkeren]

I have yet to hit more than 1 tank pre pass in QMB with 3 Tanks.

When the tanks are spread out in combat formation, as is the case in QMB, it is virtually impossible to hit 2 tanks in 1 attack run. However, a full PTAB load allows for 4 attack runs to be made potentially allowing for 4 tank kills per mission with PTAB alone, which os pretty good bang for your buck, considering that an experienced pilot might achieve a kill with relative ease dropping them 60 at a time.

[HR_Tofolo]

I'm taking back this thread since I'm unable to successfully drop the PTABs.

 

I mean, yes, I can destroy one light/medium tank in a double drop, but I have performed several tests and still don't know what I'm doing wrong (or even what might be wrong with the bomblets).

 

Here's a test mission that a squadmate (HRc_Grajo) built for ptab training purposes. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a15kzevdxgrhv9o/Training%201943.7z?dl=0

 

Let me know if you are able to destroy more than one tank in a single drop or even if you can destroy a PzIVF with the PTABs.

[Finkeren]

I have destroyed Panzer IVs with PTAB, but it seems like they might generally need more than 1 hit to kill. 

 

Destroying more than 1 tank pretty much requires, that the tanks be driving in a straight line down a road. I think I've managed a double kill once in hundreds of attempts, so it's not something that should be relied on.

 

As already mentioned, the PTAB is a scattergun. You can't ever expect it to hit properly. Even with a perfect drop right on the target, there is still a significant chance of all the bomblets missing or hitting at the wrong angle.

 

Within the limits of the sim (it doesn't seem to be modeling all the bomblets individually other than their visual representation) I think this is a pretty fair representation of the capabilities of the PTAB. It's not like in IL2-1946, where the PTAB is a monster weapon that can take out entire columns of vehicles in a single drop

Edited June 16, 2017 by Finkeren

[Dutchvdm]

I have destroyed Panzer IVs with PTAB, but it seems like they might generally need more than 1 hit to kill. 

 

Destroying more than 1 tank pretty much requires, that the tanks be driving in a straight line down a road. I think I've managed a double kill once in hundreds of attempts, so it's not something that should be relied on.

 

As already mentioned, the PTAB is a scattergun. You can't ever expect it to hit properly. Even with a perfect drop right on the target, there is still a significant chance of all the bomblets missing or hitting at the wrong angle.

 

Within the limits of the sim (it doesn't seem to be modeling all the bomblets individually other than their visual representation) I think this is a pretty fair representation of the capabilities of the PTAB. It's not like in IL2-1946, where the PTAB is a monster weapon that can take out entire columns of vehicles in a single drop

 

I want to try it against some of the larger troop concentrations and encampments that are located in most of the MP servers like TAW and RE+. Might be fun to use them there. And effective. Have you tried that?

 

Grt M

[Finkeren]

I want to try it against some of the larger troop concentrations and encampments that are located in most of the MP servers like TAW and RE+. Might be fun to use them there. And effective. Have you tried that?

 

Grt M

The one double tank kill I've gotten was on the official DED normal server. On one of the maps they have German tanks advancing in a collumn. My drop was near perfect showering the entire 6 vehicle collumn, but only 2 were killed, which seems like a plausible result.

[216th_Jordan]

I find the levelbombing tutorial from the devs about the 43 model to work very well.

[HR_Tofolo]

I have destroyed Panzer IVs with PTAB, but it seems like they might generally need more than 1 hit to kill. 

 

Destroying more than 1 tank pretty much requires, that the tanks be driving in a straight line down a road. I think I've managed a double kill once in hundreds of attempts, so it's not something that should be relied on.

 

As already mentioned, the PTAB is a scattergun. You can't ever expect it to hit properly. Even with a perfect drop right on the target, there is still a significant chance of all the bomblets missing or hitting at the wrong angle.

 

Within the limits of the sim (it doesn't seem to be modeling all the bomblets individually other than their visual representation) I think this is a pretty fair representation of the capabilities of the PTAB. It's not like in IL2-1946, where the PTAB is a monster weapon that can take out entire columns of vehicles in a single drop

 

Well, I didn't expect the '46 level of destruction although I must admit that this efectivity level is below what I expected from real sources (links in spanish)

http://rkka.es/Armamento/004_bombas/001_PTAB/000_PTAB-2.5-1.5.htm

http://rkka.es/Otros_articulos/14_coleccion_fotos/a_fotos_ataque_IL-2/000.htm

 

 

I find the levelbombing tutorial from the devs about the 43 model to work very well.

 

Yes, the tutorial is most useful but the PTABs are not playing their part.

 

Thanks for your replies mates

[=FI=Blue2]

I've managed to kill multiple soft vehicles in a single drop, but not multiple tanks... so far.  On the other hand, haven't practiced all that much yet.

 

However, I did confirm they can be used to kill an airborne He-111.  THAT was fun! 

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

I find the levelbombing tutorial from the devs about the 43 model to work very well.

Yeah. Not an attempt at bragging but my maiden flight and first PTAB drop, I destroyed 3 tanks among multiple soft vehicles...

 

And on a 2nd sortie I knocked out 2 out of 5 tanks.

 

Following that procedure made things quite easy. For me at least.

[DD_Arthur]

 

[Jade_Monkey]

I made this mission to practice PTABs against a column of tanks. I have to say they are not as effective as I hoped.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Did anyone try having a 2 or 3 plane close formation dropping them at once? Maybe that will have better results (more bomblet dispersion), and probably closer to how it was done IRL?

Edited June 17, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Finkeren]

Did anyone try having a 2 or 3 plane close formation dropping them at once? Maybe that will have better results (more bomblet dispersion), and probably closer to how it was done IRL?

It might be more effective (though I have my doubts) but I don't think it's closer to how it was done IRL.

 

The usual method of attack for the IL-2 from 1942 onwards was to form a line and fly a circle pattern over the target area, taking turns to break from the circle and attack one aircraft at a time.

[=FEW=N3cRoo]

They are random by nature, however they have severe issues in MP. I obeserved  jagged spread pattern along the direction of flight online and also sometimes they even did not explode.

It cannot be a thing that they leave like 25m gaps along the road on decent servers that are a bit populated (really im talking mby 20 people and i frequently observed issues).

 

https://youtu.be/oMkA086sMg8

https://youtu.be/5PE7yCy4TnQ

 

They have a "assault fuse" meaning detonating on impact but not less than x seconds, so you wanna avoid dropping them too low otherwise they could potentially hit a tank but bounce off and explode next to it and the charge facing somewhere random instead of downwards. 

Also you may wanna drop the  canisters atleast in a pair to have a wide enough spread to cover all of the road.

 

Best results i got on 72 trainig server was in here, however in TAW where tanks are alot more spread my record is 2 Tanks there

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by =FEW=N3croo

[hames123]

Any chance the Model 1942 and 1941 Sturmoviks can use them? They were kept in service until the end of the war to the best of my knowledge so could they have used Ptabs as well? I cannot get BoK so being able to Ptab in a 1941 or 1942 Sturmovik would be nice.

Edited July 19, 2017 by hames123

[fjacobsen]

I made this mission to practice PTABs against a column of tanks. I have to say they are not as effective as I hoped.

 

I doubt they whare that effective in real life too.

 

Though they are area weapons, they still need to be dropped quite accurately for a desired effect.

They cannot be fully compred wit cluster bombs, caue they disperse right after being dropped and dropping them precisly means You must drop them at low altitude.

While the are dispersed longitudual, the dispersion with is still narrow.

 

But I still guess there where higher chances to hit with these, than with a normal sized bomb and required sligtly less accuracy.

[LukeFF]

Any chance the Model 1942 and 1941 Sturmoviks can use them? They were kept in service until the end of the war to the best of my knowledge so could they have used Ptabs as well? I cannot get BoK so being able to Ptab in a 1941 or 1942 Sturmovik would be nice.

The rate of attrition for Il-2s would have resulted in practically negligible numbers of these models remaining in front line service by the summer of 1943, which is when PTABs were introduced.

[Boaty-McBoatface]

Tried the cluster bombs for the first time the other day (after they were finally added on WOL) and I destroyed multiple tanks. I found you just have to drop them earlier than expected.