Teamstacking WoL

[Aap]

This never made any sense. I almost couldn't believe my eyes when they first put this penalty on - what were they thinking? 

 

I think it is very easy to understand why there is the time restriction for changing sides. Very easy to get unfair advantage, if you were able to just change sides in seconds to check what is going on on the other side and then go hunting. What is completely unnecessary, though, is having the stats profile page set up so, that it supports and values playing for one side only. If people like to see their "career" on stats page - getting promoted in rank, getting medals etc - then they avoid changing sides, because this functionality disappears. When taking a quick look on the pilot list on the stats page, overwhelming majority just stick to one side for the entire month.

Edited May 18, 2017 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Inkophile]

Not a simulator huh? Hmm.... someone should tell the developers - I think they actually believe that are in fact making a simulator. I also didn't realize that it's not a Sim if one side out numbers the other. I'm learning so much here. Please tell me more.

I agree that getting rid of the penalties for switching sides would do more to balance things. But of course you'd have to assign sides (and roles too). Like I said this is complicated.

 

Talk about intentionally missing his point just to cause an argument. You know what he's saying.

 

The game itself might be a WW2 simulator, or at least offers the chance of being a proper air combat simulator, but WoL certainly isn't (heck, RE++ and TAW aren't either) because there's nothing realistic about the scenario. It's a random fustercluck of poorly coordinated players doing their own thing, sometimes in smaller groups, but still with poor coordination across the team. The objectives aren't realistic, the way "missions" are flown aren't realistic (bomber groups/formations protected by high and low cover fighter groups, all going for a single target, etc).

 

The servers are gamey. They are designed to have fun, team-based gameplay with different rulesets/ideas about how to make it fun/what is fun. Since the servers are gamey it makes absolutely no sense to not enforce balanced teams.

 

If some people are so stubborn/egoistic that they can't play for the lower-populated side and an auto-team/team balance feature of the server simply locks them from playing; boohoo. Too bad for them.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Inkompetent

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

You can't see where team side planes are, and objectives of both side are visible on the map. There is no need for such long team switch penalty. Btw is nothing in WOL in Random expert there is 900 sec of penalty time...

[Beazil]

No I don't think I missed the point. The point is that some of you feel that other players should play the way you want them to. Save yourself the frustration because they won't. They won't auto balance, and they won't think less of themselves because you assert "there are no real objectives", GPS is on, etc. Why would you play on such a server if its beneath your high standards for realism? Or are you guys going to continue to call it "easy mode" if the other pilots choose a different side than you ? This happens in all sims. Who are you trying to convince? Should we continue our little circle jerk about how bad the Luftwaffe pilots are for flying the easy mode planes?

Use that superior skill to get out there and murdle your virtual opponents and have some fun and laughs doing it! You might even come to enjoy the way you are able to take a smaller force and wreak havoc on the enemy with superior planning and teamwork. There are things we can control. Other pilots and the habits of them are not necessarily things we can (or should) change.

Yes, it IS frustrating. But if you let it go then it's not such a bother anymore. And if a particular server isn't up to your standards, don't use it. Simple.

 

Edit: the moderators of the individual servers have whatever reasons they have for setting up things the way they do. You should probably ask those individuals why they have done so. Better that than us speculating and making snap judgements based on our own limited perspectives. Unless we happen to be server mods that is. Then that individual (or individuals) could tell you why they set up a server a certain way. They probably have some good reasons for it. Plus they might find a way to incorporate the feedback you are providing. Or at least provide an answer. You might not like that answer, but at least you'd get one.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Beazil

[Inkophile]

No I don't think I missed the point. The point is that some of you feel that other players should play the way you want them to. Save yourself the frustration because they won't. They won't auto balance, and they won't think less of themselves because you assert "there are no real objectives", GPS is on, etc. Why would you play on such a server if its beneath your high standards for realism? Or are you guys going to continue to call it "easy mode" if the other pilots choose a different side than you ? This happens in all sims. Who are you trying to convince? Should we continue our little circle jerk about how bad the Luftwaffe pilots are for flying the easy mode planes?

Use that superior skill to get out there and murdle your virtual opponents and have some fun and laughs doing it! You might even come to enjoy the way you are able to take a smaller force and wreak havoc on the enemy with superior planning and teamwork. There are things we can control. Other pilots and the habits of them are not necessarily things we can (or should) change.

Yes, it IS frustrating. But if you let it go then it's not such a bother anymore. And if a particular server isn't up to your standards, don't use it. Simple.

 

Edit: the moderators of the individual servers have whatever reasons they have for setting up things the way they do. You should probably ask those individuals why they have done so. Better that than us speculating and making snap judgements based on our own limited perspectives. Unless we happen to be server mods that is. Then that individual (or individuals) could tell you why they set up a server a certain way. They probably have some good reasons for it. Plus they might find a way to incorporate the feedback you are providing. Or at least provide an answer. You might not like that answer, but at least you'd get one.

 

All we're asking for is a balanced playground, and although the Axis most of the time are the ones outnumbering the other side, the whole team balance should go the other way too.

 

Nice try to come with a straw man too, projecting attributes/demands onto me that I haven't even mentioned. Way to carry a discussion if you can't even debate the topic at hand:

• I never said that WoL is below my standard for realism. I play on it quite frequently. I said that WoL doesn't run historical/realistic scenarios which makes it a "game"-server rather than a "simulation" one. Two completely different things.

   

• I never complained about Luftwaffe pilots flying "easy mode" planes. Sure some used that argument, but that's not the point anyone worth listening to in this thread has come with. Only the pitiful ones. The topic at hand still is team balance. And either way it's not like Russian planes are difficult to fly so I believe few don't play them because of the control-difficulty, even if there are some more keybinds to keep track of.

   

• Never said that I had superior skill. Actually I'm a pretty bad pilot who can't even do very well in German planes (although I certainly do better than in the Russian ones). I tend to get my ass handed to me even when flying for Germany.

   

• If it's so easy to "let it go" when it comes to being forced to always play the underdog and having the odds against you, why would it be any harder to play Soviet instead of Germany? Just let it go. It's not so important to switch side to the underdogs.

I also find it pretty sad to use the "it happens in all sims"-argument. So what? Does IL-2 have to be "all sims"? Do all other sims do it right, or are they pissing on a third of the playerbase too (the third that can man up a bit and fight for the underdogs and aren't so worried about their precious feelings)? What is preventing the admins of the IL-2 servers to create a better environment than the other sims?

 

I simply can't understand why so many players prefer to scare away all their opponents until they are playing 84v0, rather than to create an environment that can be fun for everyone. Why some players' feelings are so much more important than everyone else that they need to get their way rather than to create a healthy environment for the game. If some more people fly for Soviet once in a while everyone can get to play the Germany, even if not 100% of the time.

 

Can agree though that this ultimately is a task for the server admins, but the playerbase manning up a bit rather than being special snowflakes would get us a long way to a better playing environment.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Inkompetent

[Beazil]

Ah yes. [Edited] I see. Carry on.

Obviously it's the rest of those people who are ruining things for you. Don't let me spoil your fun. I'm sure just a little more nashing of teeth will change everything.
Don't change your behaviour at all. You know, because it's not you b itching that's the problem. It's the player base.

Gotcha.

VVS=good. LW=bad.

Except when you eventually switch sides you might find you have similar complaints about your opponents then too. Assuming relatively equal numbers. Lose ideas of parity though. A Lagg and a 109 for example are different planes, not just red verse blue. I hope that point wasn't lost in our discussion. The 109 will always be a better climbing plane for example - but that doesn't mean he's guaranteed to out run, out climb, out shoot or out fight you. That's why we play. The outcome of a fight isn't ever certain. Even when the odds are against it. Hope that makes sense.

 

Keep that out of here. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Bearcat

[=SqSq=switch201]

The biggest part of the problem is the penalty for switching sides. As someone suggested earlier on, if we could have 2 virtual lives instead of one that would fix the problem right there.

 

Some people don't care about stats and that's fine. Some people care too much about stats to the point where they cheat and disconnect in order to avoid dieing. That's not cool at all. For some people, like me, the stats act as a mini campaign. It gives me a reason to try and keep my pilot alive instead of just going for suicide bombing runs. For that reason, I don't think any one should be but hurt if people are reluctant to switch sides. you may not care about your stats but others care about their own.

 

Me and my squad (which we just formed this month) have decided that we will be switching teams every month. so next month hopefully there are a few more russian players on average.

 

In the end though, I don't think it makes too much of a difference. the way I see it there are more targets for the red players to kill and the blue fighters are going to be bored with nothing to shoot any way.

Edited May 18, 2017 by =SqSq=switch201

[ACG_pezman]

Well Beazil,

 

Not to ruin your reputation as a LW guy, but I swear I spied you flying for the VVS side the other night on the [TWB] server. So you do fly both sides and care about balance.

 

I will say that I invested in the kickstarter for this game to fly the FW190. Back then we didn't have many servers, but we had the EU and NA Normal and Expert servers, and that is where I ran into the team balance mechanism that this game has.

 

It's utterly annoying and aggravating because it balances off of active pilots and not total pilots. It sucked because people would go afk and would not be counted in the balancing of the teams.

 

Having said that, that same mechanism is why I fly VVS today. I had no interest or desire to fly VVS aircraft because all I knew about them is that they were garbage. Now I love them. Garbage no, outclassed yes. That disparity in aircraft performance is what teaches you how to fly better. I think the LW only pilots should consider flying VVS online, nothing makes you more aware of weaknesses and flaws to exploit than experiencing them.

[Beazil]

Disco!!!! Well said p3zman!

And shhhhh! I'm a LW only guy! Don't blow my cover!

 

*Sigh*  Edit:  This editing thing is getting to be a bad habit of mine, but at least I'm not responding to my own post this way.  

I've re-read the discussion.  I see I may have been a bit hasty in my responses, so I apologize for that.  It has been a fun and informative discussion.  I've learned a lot.  Thank you.  There is a different mechanic at work in this simulator than I am used to.  The maps are over so fast.  

Edited May 19, 2017 by Beazil

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

We were having a perfectly one sided conversation until you came along... Dammed Luftie. Go back to your auto pitch l33tmobil3. Besides if you had any talent at all, you'd fly VVS. Just look at the evidence presented here!

 LMAO!!!!!!!

[Tuesday]

Ah yes. [Edited] I see. Carry on.

 

 

VVS=good. LW=bad.

 

 

 

Really, dude?  This isn't WWIIOL - this kind of attitude amongst the playerbase is what made me quit that game.  Welcome to IL-2 BoX, where WWIIOL doesn't matter, nor do its community-kickstarter-funded-toxic attitudes.

 

I paid for this game too, and yeah, I could just choose to fly Axis even when it is 54 vs 20... or I could contribute to the entire purpose of a multiplayer environment and try to put the teams on a competitive and level playing field...

Edited May 22, 2017 by Bearcat