My Honor Was Loyalty (2016) - Meine Ehre heißt Treue

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4544696/

 

MOVIE REVIEW

Meine Ehre heißt Treue (2016)

 

SPOLIER!

 

Can we compare this new Italian movie to the HBO mini series Band of Brothers? Is it a as mystical as in Gladiator with the slow camera effects and music? Is it biased? Do the Victors have any right to dislike it?

 

The movie is is about Untersharführer Ludwig Herckel (Leone Frisa) who leads a platoon? in the 1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler. Whilst doing so he bonds with some of the men in his charge. We see them on various battle fronts.

 

Technical Aspects:

 

The movie looks like a documentary and lack big battle scenes full of new computer based special effects as we are accustomed to see in American films. It is shot mostly using the shaky camera to make the on screen 'action' look better than it is in reality. The uniforms and weapons are very good and it looks like a Historical Recreation. The acting is not so good and the Germans look to southern Europeans. The battles look like a low cost reenactment in the same place despite trying to represent different European theaters of war.

However, do not take me wrong. I would rate the movie highly with a B. I understand that the director has neither the money as they do in Hollywood nor the actors like Brad Pitt, Tom Hanks, etc.

 

The message:

 

This is the part that I am more interested in hearing about. I will not give my opinion but I would love to hear the multicultural community ones.

Edited May 10, 2017 by -=PHX=-Spartan-

[Finkeren]

IMHO it's a very bad film in almost every aspect.

[Feathered_IV]

I thought it was an artless fantasy dress-up for fanbois of Nazi uniforms and equipment.  I also found the title and sneaky sneaky agenda particularly offensive.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Not heard of it.

 

While not perfect, I very much enjoyed "Generation War".

[Finkeren]

"Generation War" is something else entirely. I enjoyed that one quite a bit.

[TAAC_Blue]

"Generation War" was a good series that held my attention the whole way through.

 

I watched the first 20 minutes of "Liebstandarte" before I turned it off.

 

I'm currently in the middle of "Deutschland '83" which I'm really enjoying.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Warrior27

[Holtzauge]

Yup, stopped streaming my honour was loyalty ASAP. Agree about both Generation War and Deutschland 83, both great series. Another good watch was Evan Wrights Generation Kill. The book is also worth the read IMHO. Wish I knew beforehand that Sgt.Rudy Reyes was portraying himself when I watched it, but I only figured that out when I was reading the book......

[Guest deleted@30725]

Yup, stopped streaming my honour was loyalty ASAP. Agree about both Generation War and Deutschland 83, both great series. Another good watch was Evan Wrights Generation Kill. The book is also worth the read IMHO. Wish I knew beforehand that Sgt.Rudy Reyes was portraying himself when I watched it, but I only figured that out when I was reading the book......

 

Generation Kill - very good.

[mb339pan]

Is a low-budget movie without a professional actor, it makes no sense to compare it with other millionaire productions. The director said he had spent only 15,000 euros

Very good the plot, the direction and the soundtrack, It is not a masterpiece but it is not a shit i recommend the vision, after the first 30 minutes the plot takes off and you begin to understand that not all Germans were Nazi, many were just soldiers who obeyed orders received.

The film resumes as the concept "The Thin Red Line" showing the doubts, the fears and the sense of impotence in the face of what was happening, What are you fighting for? For whom do you die?

 

Very strong messages

 

In my opinion the most ugly scenes are the ones where they fight, but always better than the last scene of "Fury"

Edited May 10, 2017 by 339_pan

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I will have to watch it and make my own decisions on the quality/merit

 

BUT

 

To suggest that anyone in the SS and/or Liebstandarte was just a soldier and not fully committed to the cause is utter revisionist BS.

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Warrior 27, thanks for the Deutschland 83. I'll watch it right away.  

By the way, I love this discussion. We can prove that we are civilized enough to talk about historical facts and have different opinions. It is my sole intention, nothing else and nothing more. I swear. Thanks to all.

Unfortunately, other people prefer to shut down the discussions in other forums.

Edited May 10, 2017 by -=PHX=-Spartan-

[TAAC_Blue]

Is a low-budget movie without a professional actor, it makes no sense to compare it with other millionaire productions. The director said he had spent only 15,000 euros

Very good the plot, the direction and the soundtrack, It is not a masterpiece but it is not a shit i recommend the vision, after the first 30 minutes the plot takes off and you begin to understand that not all Germans were Nazi, many were just soldiers who obeyed orders received.

The film resumes as the concept "The Thin Red Line" showing the doubts, the fears and the sense of impotence in the face of what was happening, What are you fighting for? For whom do you die?

 

Very strong messages

 

In my opinion the most ugly scenes are the ones where they fight, but always better than the last scene of "Fury"

 

Well if that is the plot line I'm not disappointed I missed it.

 

 

+1 to HerrMurf and Ill add to it....I'm pretty sure soldiers of Liebstandarte SS Adolph Hitler were well aware of whom they fought and died for.

[Cybermat47]

I will have to watch it and make my own decisions on the quality/merit

BUT

To suggest that anyone in the SS and/or Liebstandarte was just a soldier and not fully committed to the cause is utter revisionist BS.

Later in the war, the SS started conscripting people, who were then declared exempt from Nuremburg by the allies.

 

However, this was much later in the war, and I would say that the vast majority of SS troops were willing volunteers.

 

To say that most SS troops were apolitical shows ignorance about the organisation. It was not a military force, but a political one. After all, it was the SS that enforced Nazi rule, and it was the SS who ran the death camps.

 

EDIT: I just looked up a member of the SS who I'd heard good things about. Turns out that he was involved in experiments on death camp prisoners.

 

So now there's only one willing member of the SS I know of who wasn't directly involved in some hideous crime. And he was one of Hitler's personal physicians.

 

So... yeah.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Cybermat47

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

"Generation War" is something else entirely. I enjoyed that one quite a bit.

Generation War was ok or okish, as a Pole I had a couple of issues with the way they have portrayed polish partisans and civilian population, particularly with those infamous events presented in series, which had no substance in historical records and were pure creators imagination. I think this even caused a reaction of our Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 

But SS Leibstandarte Adolph Hitler ? Makes me wonder what people have in their minds. I simply do not find it as a topic suitable for a scenario of a movie or series.  

[Aap]

To suggest that anyone in the SS and/or Liebstandarte was just a soldier and not fully committed to the cause is utter revisionist BS.

 

Speaking of anyone in the SS, there were actually even full divisions in Waffen-SS that consisted mainly "just soldiers". So-called Baltic Legions. It is not revisionist either, as it was concluded already during Nuremberg trials and specifically clarified a couple of years later by the US Secretary of State that these units were distinct in purpose, ideology and activities from the rest of the SS. Other than that, there were lots of men in the later years of war that were drafted into Waffen-SS without much choice, so could not say that anyone in the SS was a war criminal. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Brano]

Topic of the film is about LSAH,Hitler's personal bodyguards unit first,later extended to full SS-Panzerdivision. The most elite and devoted amongst Waffen-SS. Close one was 12.SS PzD Hitlerjugend consisted of brainwashed teenagers. This is really weird thema for the movie and really hard to believe story. Agree with FIV and Murff. Whats next? Saddam Hussein Guards story?

[Cybermat47]

From Wikipedia:

 

The movie has been well received due to its entire realization with a minuscule budget of €15.000, and its new perspective of the war, as it shows the war crimes committed by the Allies as well as those of the Germans.

That's not really a new perspective, though. It's been done plenty of times. Band of Brothers, The Pacific, and Letters from Iwo Jima, to name a few. And they were all made by people who you'd expect to be heavily biased towards the Allies.

[Finkeren]

Topic of the film is about LSAH,Hitler's personal bodyguards unit first,later extended to full SS-Panzerdivision. The most elite and devoted amongst Waffen-SS. Close one was 12.SS PzD Hitlerjugend consisted of brainwashed teenagers. This is really weird thema for the movie and really hard to believe story. Agree with FIV and Murff. Whats next? Saddam Hussein Guards story?

I don't actually mind them making a movie about it. Just be honest and show the characters for what their real life counterparts were: Devoted nazis.

 

There have been a number of truly great war movies from the German perspective, but one thing that annoys me is, that they always have to make a point out of showing how much the protagonists are in opposition to the nazi regime or at least point out very clearly, that they are NOT card carrying nazis, which is pretty ridiculous when you think about it.

[Brano]

I don't actually mind them making a movie about it. Just be honest and show the characters for what their real life counterparts were: Devoted nazis.

 

There have been a number of truly great war movies from the German perspective, but one thing that annoys me is, that they always have to make a point out of showing how much the protagonists are in opposition to the nazi regime or at least point out very clearly, that they are NOT card carrying nazis, which is pretty ridiculous when you think about it.

Yep, exactly.

[Cybermat47]

I don't actually mind them making a movie about it. Just be honest and show the characters for what their real life counterparts were: Devoted nazis.

A film like that could be superb if done right. Sadly, I doubt anyone would invest money in a film where the main characters are literally Nazi war criminals - it would be too risky, and it seems that filmmaking is as much about the money as it is about the art these days.

[Finkeren]

A film like that could be superb if done right. Sadly, I doubt anyone would invest money in a film where the main characters are literally Nazi war criminals - it would be too risky, and it seems that filmmaking is as much about the money as it is about the art these days.

The closest we'll get is probably "Der Untergang" which I personally think is a superb movie.

[Feathered_IV]

A film about your average "Good-German" might be interesting. One that goes from being zesty pre-war convert, to chest thumping true believer.  Whose prejudice is kindled by an unholy dogma and ignited to murderous ends.  We could follow his progress as the war develops.  As he takes part as an interested spectator in some truly horrible crimes, and willingly participates in others - secure in the knowledge that they will be victorious and neither him nor his nation will ever be held to account. 

 

After reaching the high-tide mark of his Reich, we could watch as his nation suffers reverse after reverse, and he decides that no matter how much blood he sheds, he really is a Man of Peace after all.  That now that he is on the receiving end, war was a terrible thing and that he was just a poor, poor victim.  Near war's end he would eventually surrender, earnestly shouting "Kamerade!"  to people he once would have shot out of hand.  We could follow him through the post-war period as he makes the inner shift to put the blame for all the choices he ever made onto his leaders, and his efforts to convince himself that he knew nothing and was as surprised as anybody by what monstrous deeds his country and people just like him had managed to commit.

 

The film could end with his own personal salvation of sorts.  When in his old age, he realised he could claim his conduct was done entirely out of loyalty.  Because loyalty is a good thing, right?  And if he was loyal, then could he not also say he had honour?

[Aap]

 

 

There have been a number of truly great war movies from the German perspective, but one thing that annoys me is, that they always have to make a point out of showing how much the protagonists are in opposition to the nazi regime or at least point out very clearly, that they are NOT card carrying nazis, which is pretty ridiculous when you think about it.

 

Well, if they did not do that, lots of viewers might still have the perception that all the German soldiers were nazis or fascists.

[Lusekofte]

Later in the war, the SS started conscripting people, who were then declared exempt from Nuremburg by the allies.

 

Well this is true, but somehow the crime never left those souls, most of them did not fight in Russia, so they where "blooded" in village massacre in France, hence still being part of warcrime.

By late 44 , volunteer or not, you should not be given the opportunity to say you where innocent . It was part of SS policy. 

It is only in the last 10 years or so Norwegian Waffen SS volunteers admitted they where part of church burning with Women and children in it, ordered to shoot anyone getting out.

They still never admitted to be part of Jew killing in the East.

These men enlisted for adventure, being from 17 to 50 years old, and for fighting with Finland, some of them never acted in service in own country, but many did, and these was sentenced to hard labour in Norway and execution for worst crimes.

It seems the more I read about Waffen SS the less I can say to defend them, originally I think they all where there mainly to be a part of "elite" unit and do their job for the fatherland, but it escalated and fanatics growed, from there on, first small stuff and then well you know the rest

Edited May 11, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[150GCT_Veltro]

This is the italian historical team involved in all these kinde of movies.

 

http://www.progetto900.com/cinema.htm

 

They research and buy equipment from all the Europe to provide the best historical accuracy.

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by 150GCT_Veltro

[ZachariasX]

I will have to watch it and make my own decisions on the quality/merit

BUT

To suggest that anyone in the SS and/or Liebstandarte was just a soldier and not fully committed to the cause is utter revisionist BS.

There's a name for them "Muss-Nazi". (See Saul Padovers book "Experiment in Germany" for that).

[Danziger]

Saying all Germans were Nazis is like saying all Americans are Democrats. People do what they have to in order to survive. All of us have the benefit of learning about the war through education like books or films and stories from relatives. It was very different to experience first hand. Nobody knew what the future was bringing. Sadly it never changes. I spent three years in Iraq while I was in the army. Us as soldiers could care less about Iraq or Islam or politics. We were there because we were poor and the army was a steady pay with benefits for families. We did the job because not doing it would get us in jail. However, there are always fanatics. As the war went on, I got older and new recruits were more and more fanatical. My last tour in Iraq I was truly disgusted and frightened by my fellow soldiers. They were new Christian fanatical kids who only joined for a chance to legally kill Muslims. I had never seen such hate and thirst for blood. After that contract I left the military. I want no part of anyone's religious or ideological wars. It was bad enough to be associated with politics that I did not agree with.

[TAAC_Blue]

Saying all Germans were Nazis is like saying all Americans are Democrats. People do what they have to in order to survive. All of us have the benefit of learning about the war through education like books or films and stories from relatives. It was very different to experience first hand. Nobody knew what the future was bringing. Sadly it never changes. I spent three years in Iraq while I was in the army. Us as soldiers could care less about Iraq or Islam or politics. We were there because we were poor and the army was a steady pay with benefits for families. We did the job because not doing it would get us in jail. However, there are always fanatics. As the war went on, I got older and new recruits were more and more fanatical. My last tour in Iraq I was truly disgusted and frightened by my fellow soldiers. They were new Christian fanatical kids who only joined for a chance to legally kill Muslims. I had never seen such hate and thirst for blood. After that contract I left the military. I want no part of anyone's religious or ideological wars. It was bad enough to be associated with politics that I did not agree with.

* experiences may vary.

 

My 27 months are pretty different from yours.

[Danziger]

The point is everything isn't black and white. It's easy for us to sit here comfortable with all the facts and judge. It was far more difficult to make life decisions having to live in that time and place.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Well then pick a different elite German unit - Grossdeutchland perhaps? Again, implying LAH were not committed to the cause til the very end is a stretch at best and potentially something else altogether.

 

I watched it last night. It's a decent student level film. I'd put it on par with a history channel effort on the dramatic side of things. It is shot pretty well and in HD. It was a decent effort on a small scale but tightening up the script and investing a little more in actors would have gone a long way. Not a bad way to kill 1:55 but I could also have downed four or five LaGGs in that amount of time.

[Holtzauge]

If you want a true rendition of life in Nazi Germany I recommend the excellent documentary by the up and coming Swedish director David Sandberg: Kung Fury. The film has been praised worldwide for its novel approach to illuminate the difficult choices people at that time had to make (for or against Kung Fuhrer and moustaches) and also has some footage that debunks the myth that the SS were some sort of invincible crack troops. As the footage shows it was actually quite easy to disarm them.......

 

PS: Maybe its time to let this go? There is no such thing as collective guilt and the Germans who live in Germany today have absolutely nothing to do with what happened in WW2. Most were not even born then and those who were adults at the time and consequently responsible for their actions are gone. In addition, if there is one country in this world that has truly faced up to its history its the Germans so can we stop the Germany bashing please?

[Danziger]

Exactly. If people think their own governments/nations/societies are not capable of the same kind of horrors, they are very mistaken. It has happened in many places through history and sadly seems it will not stop. Extremism in any form is unhealthy.

[TAAC_Blue]

You guys are missing the point, and no one is bashing on Germany or implying their ownhistory is squeaky clean.

 

The point I've been responding to is that the Director made a poor choice in what unit he wanted marry his plot too.

 

If the plot was about who and what those soldiers were fighting and dying for...LSSAH was the last formation I would pick.

[Holtzauge]

You guys are missing the point, and no one is bashing on Germany or implying their ownhistory is squeaky clean.

 

The point I've been responding to is that the Director made a poor choice in what unit he wanted marry his plot too.

 

If the plot was about who and what those soldiers were fighting and dying for...LSSAH was the last formation I would pick.

 

Well if that was your point then I totally agree: I think using SS troops in a film about moral dilemmas or people getting caught up in war is dubious at best: Sure there may have been exceptions but for me SS was mostly a volunteer force and are too associated with the Nazi regime so as props in a film they are better to portray the collaborating part of the German population of the time.

[Finkeren]

If the plot was about who and what those soldiers were fighting and dying for...LSSAH was the last formation I would pick.

See I'd actually want to see a movie that could courageously explore the motivation of ideological nazi soldiers - not make excuses for them.

 

My Honor Was Loyalty is not such a film.

[Danziger]

See I'd actually want to see a movie that could courageously explore the motivation of ideological nazi soldiers - not make excuses for them.

 

My Honor Was Loyalty is not such a film.

Agree.

[TAAC_Blue]

I would watch that movie to.

 

Watch "Die Welle". It's a good movie that explores how young people can get caught up in an ideology.

[ZachariasX]

See I'd actually want to see a movie that could courageously explore the motivation of ideological nazi soldiers - not make excuses for them.

You really want to see that? Talking about the people that I know on that side from back then, be prepared there might be less to it than you might think and you're likely in for disappointment.

 

If you are however interested in the German nature of that time on the whole, then if you haven't done so, I recommed the book I refered above from Saul Padover.

 

As for the movie, this is from the bottom of the barrel.

[Holtzauge]

I agree with Zacharias: Unfortunately I think the motivations of people willing to take part in an ideological struggle using violence is banal: Historically there has never been a shortage of overzealous people willing to kill and maim others who do not have the “right” political view or religion so I fear it would make for a very narrow minded, one-dimensional picture with a thin plot……

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I think this is very interesting and it is worth to give it a try before giving an opinion ...

 

In 2012, at only 24 years old, Alessandro began working on his first feature-length film My Honor Was Loyalty, having no sponsors and without the backing of a production studio. He was aided by PROGETTO900, an italian historical reenactment group. The script was based in World War II, with the main character being a German soldier in the Waffen SS. After the release of the first trailer, he gained a larger name among independent movie makers. He collaborated with several groups all around Europe, giving him the chance to work on the project in several countries. The film was completed 3 years later, after shooting on location in Italy, Slovakia, France and Germany. After the premiere in Italy, the movie was also screened in London where Alessandro found agreements with Worldwide Distributors. The first European release was in January 2016, and the movie was selected for the Marche Du Film at the Cannes Film Festival following the worldwide release.[1] The movie has been well received due to its entire realization with a minuscule budget of €15.000, and its new perspective of the war, as it shows the war crimes committed by the Allies as well as those of the Germans. The movie gained more than 250.000€. Alessandro also composed the soundtrack for My Honor Was Loyalty with piano, choir and orchestral pieces. The composition won 2 awards at the XII International Women in Music Festival, as "Best Soundtrack" and "Best Performance". The Trailer on Youtube reached more than 2 millions views and the Feature was released in Netflix on March 2017. In 2016 Alessandro announced the production of 4 short films still based on World War II theme from German point of view. They have been released on his Youtube Channel "MHWL Productions" and they have all been scored by him. He also announced the willing to produce some projects in Japanese style to submit in 2017 Film Festivals composing the Soundtracks as well.

 

Souce: Wikipedia

Edited May 12, 2017 by -=PHX=-Spartan-