German or Nazi ?

[HagarTheHorrible]

Over recent year, here in the UK it seems there has been a subtle effort, on the part of the media etc that seems to be becoming more prevalent , to refer to the Second World War as having been fought against the Nazi's rather than the Germans. When I was a young lad, growing up in the late 60's and 70's, I can't remember any particular distinction and if there was an enemy it was Germany, slang name or Nazi Germany but not just the Nazi's.

 

Is it just me or are the movers and shakers in society trying to play down Germany's and the Germans part by suggesting it wasn't really them, it was the big Nasty boys in the corner who did it ?

[Finkeren]

Understandable. Where national socialism continues to represent many of the things that we as a society abhor, and has mostly vanished as a political factor anyway (fortunately), Germany continues to exist to this day with a population that for the large majority shares no part of the blame. It makes sense to shift blame away from the nation and onto the ideology.

[OrLoK]

Im a 70's child, at school for me it was always against the Nazis rather than the Germans.

 

The younger and less informed I was, the more the two became more interchangeable.

 

The older I got (early teens) the more I realised and discovered that not all Germans were Nazis.

 

However, I don't think the media are trying to make Germany's responsibility as a whole any less rather are trying more to warn us of how history can easily repeat itself, especially with the upswing of fear and extreme nationalism around the world in recent times.

 

I was called a "muzzie lover" at my local boozer for simply pointing out that not all muslims are terrorists for example.

 

We're walking a fine line atm IMHO, its good to be reminded what can happen if we let our insecurities rule us.

[Feathered_IV]

There certainly seems to be an effort to rebrand the Nazi's nation of willing servants and enablers as baffled innocents whose "only crime was loyalty".   

[Finkeren]

There certainly seems to be an effort to rebrand the Nazi's nation of willing servants and enablers as baffled innocents whose "only crime was loyalty".   

 

True and that historical revisionism is gross, but still I think, that we ought to be careful not to pass the blame onto modern Germans who weren't even born at the time.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Understandable. Where national socialism continues to represent many of the things that we as a society abhor, and has mostly vanished as a political factor anyway (fortunately), Germany continues to exist to this day with a population that for the large majority shares no part of the blame. It makes sense to shift blame away from the nation and onto the ideology.

If I have a concern, it is the re-writing of history to suit the sensibilities of a modern world. If you could go back and ask people of my Grandparents generation, in the U.K, who they were fighting, very few would have said the Nazi's, when Neville Chamberlin declared war, he didn't declare war on the Nazi party but, "consequently this country is at War with Germany". Trying to airbrush inconvenient truths under the carpet, to me, smacks at exactly what are politicians and social commentators are trying to guard against, irrespective of what you call it. Trying to draw a distinction between the Germans of the period and the excesses of the Nazi's gives the Germans an opportunity to look back and say, " Not us mate, it was those horrible Nazi's, nothing to do with us" thus distancing themselves from their culpability.

[DD_Arthur]

Over recent year, here in the UK it seems there has been a subtle effort, on the part of the media etc that seems to be becoming more prevalent , to refer to the Second World War as having been fought against the Nazi's rather than the Germans. 

 

Is it just me or are the movers and shakers in society trying to play down Germany's and the Germans part by suggesting it wasn't really them, it was the big Nasty boys in the corner who did it ?

 

I think it's more worth wondering why the popular British press still seems to be obsessed by WW2?   Modern Europe has managed to put it behind them but we still don't seem to be able to do this.

 

True and that historical revisionism is gross, but still I think, that we ought to be careful not to pass the blame onto modern Germans who weren't even born at the time.

 

I agree completely and feel it's worth pointing out that for the most part this revisionism does not originate within modern Germany.

[HagarTheHorrible]

True and that historical revisionism is gross, but still I think, that we ought to be careful not to pass the blame onto modern Germans who weren't even born at the time.

I think most people, I daren't say "all", are intelligent enough to know the difference between modern Germans, modern Germany and the sins of their fathers without confusing themselves. They can see a clear distinction.

[DD_Arthur]

If I have a concern, it is the re-writing of history to suit the sensibilities of a modern world. If you could go back and ask people of my Grandparents generation, in the U.K, who they were fighting, very few would have said the Nazi's, when Neville Chamberlin declared war, he didn't declare war on the Nazi party but, "consequently this country is at War with Germany". Trying to airbrush inconvenient truths under the carpet, to me, smacks at exactly what are politicians and social commentators are trying to guard against, irrespective of what you call it. Trying to draw a distinction between the Germans of the period and the excesses of the Nazi's gives the Germans an opportunity to look back and say, " Not us mate, it was those horrible Nazi's, nothing to do with us" thus distancing themselves from their culpability.

 

Hagar, I see we are cross-posting but I simply don't see modern Germany trying to distance itself from culpability.  The history of West Germany and the modern, united Germany seems to me to be one of an enlightened nation that has been a beacon of cooperation and reconciliation these last seventy years.

 

I can't think of any other nation that has erected so many memorials and reminders within their own borders of the crimes committed by a previous generation.

 

They have certainly been much more open and honest about the past than either ourselves or the French when it comes to the history of our respective overseas empires. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by DD_Arthur

[HagarTheHorrible]

I think it's more worth wondering why the popular British press still seems to be obsessed by WW2?   Modern Europe has managed to put it behind them but we still don't seem to be able to do this

Britain's finest hour ( maybe last hour) and you wonder why they still harp on about it, really ? Britain achieved greatness during WW2, for it's heroic stand. Without sentimentality or jingoisum it is quite rightly something Britain should be proud of. For most of mainland Europe it's a far more complex story and understandable why they don't want to delve to deeply.

 

In fact this all reminds me of a song by Noel Coward, "Don't let's be beastly to the Germans".

Hagar, I see we are cross-posting but I simply don't see modern Germany trying to distance itself from culpability.  The history of West Germany and the modern, united Germany seems to me to be one of an enlightened nation that has been a beacon of cooperation and reconciliation these last seventy years.

 

I can't think of any other nation that has erected so many memorials and reminders within their own borders of the crimes committed by a previous generation.

 

They have certainly been much more open and honest about the past than either ourselves or the French when it comes to the history of our respective overseas empires.

 

Not necessarily Germany but other countries, specifically the UK.

[Trooper117]

I was born in the 50's... in school it was always 'Germany' 'the Germans' etc... never the Nazis

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

American or genocidal Imperialist pig?

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Nazi Germans seems to cover it for me.

 

There was no Naziland with a nation on Nazis.

[J2_Trupobaw]

Is it just me or are the movers and shakers in society trying to play down Germany's and the Germans part by suggesting it wasn't really them, it was the big Nasty boys in the corner who did it ?

 

On the contrary, they are trying to present the mostly apolitical German servicemen and civilians involved as Nazis, one and all.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Trupobaw

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Hagar, I see we are cross-posting but I simply don't see modern Germany trying to distance itself from culpability. The history of West Germany and the modern, united Germany seems to me to be one of an enlightened nation that has been a beacon of cooperation and reconciliation these last seventy years.

 

I can't think of any other nation that has erected so many memorials and reminders within their own borders of the crimes committed by a previous generation.

 

They have certainly been much more open and honest about the past than either ourselves or the French when it comes to the history of our respective overseas empires.

Really??

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_looting_of_Poland#Nazi_Germany

[ram0506]

No political discussions here, please. Topic closed.