Do the AI have super ammo?

[Uriah]

I know I am a poor fighter pilot but I can shoot the AI fool of holes and it only goes down after a long battle and little ammo left.  But let AI get a shot at me and my wing is gone.  Seems a bit odd to me.

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

perhaps they are only firing cannons. but i haven't had much issue, it usually takes a few passes for them to dust me unless i'm flying straight and level. if you wanna plant an AI in the dirt, try and aim for the engine in a deflection shot. it isn't easy but they normally go down pretty quick since thankfully engines can't take a pounding in this title.

[Marcomies]

Are you shooting from very long distances Uriah? Single long range hits here and there don't usually do much damage.

[Uriah]

Usually in the range of .05 to .30    Again, Likely I am a poor shot but most of the time when I get shot it is one burst and the wing flies off,   Could well be realistic. 

[Marcomies]

I guess you have been just damn unlucky then. All it takes is a one good hit from a cannon for either side.

[dkoor]

I guess you have been just damn unlucky then. All it takes is a one good hit from a cannon for either side.

+1

 

I was actually very surprised to see how bandit goes down from one burst. In comparison to "old" IL-2.

It almost looks too easy, but in all reality being hit by a 20mm cannon must be devastating so I think it's about right.

[Fifi]

It's not super ammo IMO (haha!) it's more super shooting dead accuracy.

Actual AI won't miss you if you let them firing opportunities.

It won't overshoot you or waste bullets everywhere ---> Just right on target!

The trick is to never loose sight of him, or you're gonna run into troubles.

And that's actually the weak point of the sim, because of actual bad contact spotting.

It can appear/desappear too close from you...

But anyway, always an eye on him to anticipate and avoid any firing opportunity is the trick to me.

[MarcoRossolini]

I've found ammo is deadly for both sides of the computer, it doesn't take much of a burst to riddle the enemy or set fire to him. I've found it relatively easy to blow them up as well. 

[Original_Uwe]

Usually in the range of .05 to .30 Again, Likely I am a poor shot but most of the time when I get shot it is one burst and the wing flies off, Could well be realistic.

Way too far off. Make it 100 meters our less and you will find you are much, much more effective.

[Finkeren]

I've managed to survive quite a bit of battle damage in the LaGG. On the other hand, I've seen the AI jump ship after a single burst with no parts coming off the aircraft and the engine still running.

 

So you might say, that I have the opposite experience.

 

In any case, what is certain is this: The AI uses the exact same FM, DM and ballistics model as the player. This is the founding principle of the Digital Nature engine. Therefore, if the AI seems too easy/too hard to shoot down or vice versa, this can only be cause of the AI itself.

[Georgio]

You must be unlucky; I find that even the MG's are more than effective with the 7.92s acting more like .50 cals with their ability to shred planes and as for the cannons, well they're brutal which is how it should be to be honest.

 

I know I am a poor fighter pilot but I can shoot the AI fool of holes and it only goes down after a long battle and little ammo left.  But let AI get a shot at me and my wing is gone.  Seems a bit odd to me.

[Trickyricky]

I´m with Fifi, when he says super accurate shooting by AI.

As soon as AI is able to fire, you´re in trouble.

Combined with spotting-possibilities atm, I had a pretty rough time flying expert mode this weekend ^^ 

 

Anyways, I think DM is okay as far as I can judge.. I ain´t really experienced in flightsims.. but since I fell in love with RoF and CloD TF lately, I keep on practicing

As an example of a one-burst-kill I´ll post a video, I made on saturday.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YapOBKHC0_Q

Edited December 9, 2013 by Trickyricky

[Finkeren]

After trying a few more dogfights today, I must say, that I don't find novice AI to be terribly good shots. They certainly miss more than they hit and are easy to dodge if you see a salvo coming up. Higher level AI (which I reckon I have met a few times now) are an entirely different story.

[Fifi]

 Higher level AI (which I reckon I have met a few times now) are an entirely different story.

 

Ah, didn't know we had different AI skill level...

So i must have run into higher AI skill, cause the few times i let them a firing opportunity, they hitted me at first burst.

I also can add i've never seen my plane surrounded by tracers trying to hit me...might be because i shot down rookie level too fast before they could fire!  

[Finkeren]

Ah, didn't know we had different AI skill level...

So i must have run into higher AI skill, cause the few times i let them a firing opportunity, they hitted me at first burst.

I also can add i've never seen my plane surrounded by tracers trying to hit me...might be because i shot down rookie level too fast before they could fire!  

From DD no 44:

 

"Note, that there’s a 50% probability that a pair of enemy fighters may spawn. Also, there’s 50% for the next enemy you encounter to be a higher level AI pilot. And also there’s a 50% possibility that a friendly fighter would spawn on Lapino airfield to support you."

 

I flew all but the first combat mission without icons (had forgottten that the difficulty level resets after an update, so I had them "on" for the first flight) so I don't know exactly what I met, but several times my second or third LaGG in one mission with the Bf 109 seemed to fly differently and turn tighter. I only encountered the double spawn once (with me flying the LaGG - guess how long I lasted) and never noticed any friendly spawns.

[Fifi]

Didn't see any pair of planes, either friendly/ennemy...

Always 1vs1.

 

About spawning, that make me think i really hope planes WILL NOT unspawn like in ROF! Meaning at a certain distance (too close for me) if you don't follow them, they stupidly vanish...and if you were waiting for a kill, that's too bad! Furthermore, you can't let a flight go on and come back later for interception. They will not be on map anymore...

I don't like that in ROF. I hope it will be different in BOS. 

But that's because all AI planes are flying with same FM and DM as player...too perf expansive for our PC...

Sometime i would prefer they had different FM/DM as player, so we can keep them all on map!

This goes for planes desappearing when killed/crashed, after 2 seconds...a shame they couldn't stay!

(makes me think i'm gonna ask devs for an improvment on that point)

[Finkeren]

That's my single biggest gripe with RoF as well, but I don't have high hopes of it being any different in BoS.

 

My hope is, that they will at least make the spawn/despawn distance a lot longer to reflect the faster speeds we fly at. If they use RoF despawn ranges, you could potentially flee a pursuing aircraft, by forcing a high-speed head on pass and just continue flying straight, which should take you out of despawn range, before he turns his plane around and gain speed to follow you.

[Fifi]

Exactly!

[VR-DriftaholiC]

I had too shoot down both the single novice planes to get the pair then when you shoot them down the ace would most likely spawn. I play expert mode but I had to turn unlimited ammo on to get that far

[NonWonderDog]

That's my single biggest gripe with RoF as well, but I don't have high hopes of it being any different in BoS.

 

My hope is, that they will at least make the spawn/despawn distance a lot longer to reflect the faster speeds we fly at. If they use RoF despawn ranges, you could potentially flee a pursuing aircraft, by forcing a high-speed head on pass and just continue flying straight, which should take you out of despawn range, before he turns his plane around and gain speed to follow you.

 

What they need to do is have the despawned AI invisibly "fly" their flight plan, sticking exactly to set speeds and altitudes and having a random chance to destroy targets, and spawn the actual planes when you're within a certain distance of where they "should" be. That way you could have the entire front active with minimal CPU impact, and potentially unlimited planes as long as you don't have them all in the same few square miles. The only thing even slightly difficult is what to do if you stumble across a simulated dogfight, but it shouldn't be hard to come up with some possible scenarios to spawn the planes in.

 

I guess you'd need to sit down and program all the probabilities of x plane vs y plane or z ground target with q AA defenses, and you might end up caught up in wargame tweaking. It would probably be worth it, though.

Edited December 10, 2013 by NonWonderDog

[DUTTENHOFER]

My experience was similar. The only reason I was victorious most of the time was because of the 109 itself. Sometimes I would be in a 550 kph dive on an enemy and his wingman would headshot me while flying parallel to the ground. I think the ai is just too good at aiming. They will fly wildly most of the time with their elevator and rudder flapping around in the wind but when they shoot it's like they change rails. Then once you're dead they go back to flapping around.

Edited December 10, 2013 by DUTTENHOFER

[Marcomies]

I didn't notice any super accuracy from the AI. It ain't bad shot by any means but I managed to dodge incoming fire more often than not (mainly in the bf-109 but in LaGG also).

[71st_AH_Hooves]

What they need to do is have the despawned AI invisibly "fly" their flight plan, sticking exactly to set speeds and altitudes and having a random chance to destroy targets, and spawn the actual planes when you're within a certain distance of where they "should" be. That way you could have the entire front active with minimal CPU impact, and potentially unlimited planes as long as you don't have them all in the same few square miles. The only thing even slightly difficult is what to do if you stumble across a simulated dogfight, but it shouldn't be hard to come up with some possible scenarios to spawn the planes in.

 

I guess you'd need to sit down and program all the probabilities of x plane vs y plane or z ground target with q AA defenses, and you might end up caught up in wargame tweaking. It would probably be worth it, though.

This is already being used in SEVERAL RoF missions and campaigns.  It is a great way to save on CPU and still get the numbers of A/C that you would like to see in the skies.  There are scripts that can be used to not de-spawn an A/C that is damaged so that you will get the kill when the A/C either runs out of gas, or the scripts simply counts those heavily damaged planes as kills, because the script can tell if they would make it back or not.

 

  EVERY GAME uses different methods to save on CPU/MEMORY what have you.  In this case it is up to the mission makers to implement the correct scripts into their missions. Which luckily there are more than a few talented ones in the Digital Nature community!   And due to the popularity of WWII, I suspect many more will be coming out of the woodwork.

[4H_V-man]

What I thought was absolutely fabulous was how much the view through my gunsight resembled what I have seen from WWII gun-cam footage. I even had a panel fly off a 109 and go flipping past my airplane. Spectacular!

[II./JG27_Rich]

What I thought was absolutely fabulous was how much the view through my gunsight resembled what I have seen from WWII gun-cam footage. I even had a panel fly off a 109 and go flipping past my airplane. Spectacular!