Open Cockpit Blur Effect

[gx007]

Hello guys,

 

I've seen videos of open canopies during combat and it looks too easy to spot and track an opponent. Yes, even the one where a 109 is flying without its canopy.

 

There has to be a "penalty" for this ability.

 

How about creating increased blurring effects at higher speeds when the canopy is open?

 

Keep up the good work.

[71st_AH_Cujo]

I don't understand. Are you afraid that 109 pilots will have disadvantage because they can't open the canopy during flight?

[gx007]

No. I think 109 pilots will have an advantage flying without a canopy (ejected off).

 

You can eject the 109 canopy and it flies without a performance drop (I think).

 

Likewise, Lagg pilots can fly with canopy open without penalty.

 

I used to fly Zeros in IL2 with canopy open. I had the advantage of a clear, unobstructed view and no disadvantage. 

 

A blur effect at higher speeds would discourage flying with the canopy open. 

Edited December 9, 2013 by gx007

[Chill31]

My experience with flying open vs closed canopy shows a fairly significant impact on drag.  At 140 knots in a T-6, if you close the canopy, you speed up about 10-15 knots.  Forget the blur, model the drag!

[rolikiraly]

IIRC they have modelled the increased drag for such cases. Not completely sure though, and i can't try myself

[kestrel79]

How about a sound effect from the pilot when you have the canopy open for a long time? It's cold out there in Russia! Maybe some shivering, teether chattering, goggles fogging up?

[Sternjaeger]

No. I think 109 pilots will have an advantage flying without a canopy (ejected off).

 

You can eject the 109 canopy and it flies without a performance drop (I think).

 

Likewise, Lagg pilots can fly with canopy open without penalty.

 

I used to fly Zeros in IL2 with canopy open. I had the advantage of a clear, unobstructed view and no disadvantage. 

 

A blur effect at higher speeds would discourage flying with the canopy open. 

 

yeah, well if they model things properly, ejecting your canopy on the 109 would probably mean damaging your tail surfaces, that thing is HEAVY!

 

As Chill says, they should probably model drag, since they can't model "oh no, my face has frostbite all over it!" 

[gx007]

I like increased drag and sound effects, but I'm not sure if it outweighs the advantage of unobstructed viewing. Would be interesting to see.

 

I like "icy eyeballs" effect on screen in such cold weather too. They now have blood spots and fuzzy vision modeled when the pilot is injured. I've seen it  

 

 

I was also thinking model goggles over your screen if blur isn't used.

 

See Simbin Race07 racer helmet pic #2. I used to race this sim and the helmet overlay does have an effect. 

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/race-07-the-wtcc-game-first-look/1100-6175337/

 

 

Luftwaffe and USSR goggles. I'm not sure if this is for fighter pilots of the period, but one can see if this was modeled it's not going to be easy to spot and track objects.  

 

http://www.flightgear.ch/LW%20LKpS%20101/lw_lkps_101.htm

 

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/equipment-accessories-personal-items/rkka-ww2-period-flight-goggles-268422/

 

http://www.themilitarycampaign.co.uk/accoutrements/product/395-ww2-luftwaffe-anti-splinter-flying-goggles

 

http://www.actionfiguren-shop.com/en/Figures/WW-II/Germany/Defense-of-the-Reich-Fighter-Pilot.html

 

Again, just take away the visual advantage of an open canopy at higher speeds. 

Edited December 10, 2013 by gx007

[Sternjaeger]

mmmh that helmet view is a bit silly.. your eyes do not focus on very close stuff like that, in fact they tend to exclude "visual noise".. 

 

I used to wear RAF issue goggles on the Tiger Moth and the only thing they impair a bit is your peripheral view, but we already have our monitors for that, so frankly I don't see what it would add to the sim 

Edited December 10, 2013 by Sternjaeger

[gx007]

mmmh that helmet view is a bit silly.. your eyes do not focus on very close stuff like that, in fact they tend to exclude "visual noise".. 

 

I used to wear RAF issue goggles on the Tiger Moth and the only thing they impair a bit is your peripheral view, but we already have our monitors for that, so frankly I don't see what it would add to the sim 

 

Good points. Thanks for sharing your real life experience.

[steppenwolf]

I like the idea of an effect emphasizing open cockpit, also the idea of a 'goggle' effect. The fact is both things in RL are coupled with all sorts of visual and auditory clues(however subtle), but having the programming and artistic skills to make them look good is a completely different matter. I imagine if someone, or some company, had enough time and money they could make a 'simulator' out of just about any RL action, however mundane(e.g, leaves falling, wind motion, smoke, human movements, water, wearing goggles, etc.). I imagine games many years from now will feature and model such things in painstaking detail. 

Edited December 10, 2013 by steppenwolf

[Sternjaeger]

they could probably be a good idea once the Oculus Rift is out, but again at the moment it's like we look through goggles because of our monitors.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Sternjaeger

[=IRFC=SmokinHole]

My experience with flying open vs closed canopy shows a fairly significant impact on drag.  At 140 knots in a T-6, if you close the canopy, you speed up about 10-15 knots.  Forget the blur, model the drag!

I agree. With a windscreen, the loss of the canopy will create some buffeting maybe but no visual issues.

[Marcomies]

I really don't like it when flight simulators model physiological effects other than black/redouts and getting shot.

 

Flying against Lagg's removing bf-109's canopy does have it's advantages but I'd say you are still better of being a lot faster than Lagg-3 rather than just a bit faster. When we get more planes the performance loss will surely counter the pros of small visibility increase. If it had not, real WW2 pilots would probably have flown their planes WW1 style: cockpits open wearing goggles and thicker scarfs.

 

So rather no gamey blur effects or 2D frost effect overlays on the screen.

[Reflected]

To the OP:

 

So you're asking the devs to implement something as unrealistic as a motion blur instead of asking them to model the immense drag that comes with an open canopy?

 

I'm sure it will be modeled realistically, and then nobody will ever think of opening it in the air.

[steppenwolf]

As a RL example, ever riden in a train and tried to keep your eyes on objects as they pass? Not sure about you guys, but I see plenty of motion blur, there's all sorts of shit going on. I honestly try to like the sterile 'steadycam' POV, but I just don't see it as realistic. There's got to be something better. I think visual effects like these will slowly be the hallmark of innovative programming, the stuff that seperates repetitive video gaming from true simulators...I hope anyway. 

 

And yeah, drag for open canopy is a nobrainer.

[gx007]

I noticed that there's goggle filter on when viewing as a pilot (F!) compared to outside view. Nice feature. 

[Sternjaeger]

As a RL example, ever riden in a train and tried to keep your eyes on objects as they pass? Not sure about you guys, but I see plenty of motion blur, there's all sorts of shit going on. I honestly try to like the sterile 'steadycam' POV, but I just don't see it as realistic. There's got to be something better. I think visual effects like these will slowly be the hallmark of innovative programming, the stuff that seperates repetitive video gaming from true simulators...I hope anyway. 

 

And yeah, drag for open canopy is a nobrainer.

 

the view you have from a train can't be compared from the view you get on an aircraft: that sort of motion blur is something you perceive with object really near to you, not with ones that are far. If you look outside an airliner small window at takeoff, you'll probably see the runway lights as slightly blurry if you don't focus on them, but the rest won't.

[TX-EcoDragon]

My experience with flying open vs closed canopy shows a fairly significant impact on drag.  At 140 knots in a T-6, if you close the canopy, you speed up about 10-15 knots.  Forget the blur, model the drag!

 

Exactly! 

[Quax]

My experience with flying open vs closed canopy shows a fairly significant impact on drag.  At 140 knots in a T-6, if you close the canopy, you speed up about 10-15 knots.  Forget the blur, model the drag!

 

+1

 

 

PS:   In RoF you can feel the additional drag, when you tilt the overwing gun. They are looking for the details. Hopefully this info is not burried under the "blur" title now. Perhaps you can send a bug report as well  "No drag, when canopy is opened"

[StG2_Manfred]

yeah, well if they model things properly, ejecting your canopy on the 109 would probably mean damaging your tail surfaces, that thing is HEAVY!

 

As Chill says, they should probably model drag, since they can't model "oh no, my face has frostbite all over it!" 

 

Of course they can, that's exactly the suggestion here. Model the drag is ok, but modeling the "frostbite" as you call it, would be also good and very realistic imo. And to blur the view would be a good compromise, at least starting after a while and then increasing. Just imagine -20° C in an open canopy and your plane is more than 300 km/h fast. Not only your eyes would start tearing, I guess you would start to freeze in no time 

 

EDIT: After reading the whole topic I want to add something: In my opinion it's not that relevant, whether or not it is exactly like in RL, particulary in this case. The approach must be to get it fair. Look, when I'm wounded in RL there also isn't red blood around my vision, is it? 

Edited December 16, 2013 by StG2_Manfred

[gx007]

I see Fifi posted (#130 in suggestions thread) pic of 109 flying without canopy at 500 with head outside the cockpit. 

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/767-thread-gather-your-suggestions/?p=67269

 

There should be some restriction to this capability - blurring, head-bobbling, extreme engine sound - whatever works to hinder it.

[BigPickle]

mmmh that helmet view is a bit silly..

 

Agreed, its like your eyes are sunk back inside your head by several inches. Really they should have had less border and it should be out of focus, just put a pair of glasses on its obvious but not in focus.

[Yours_truly_Ace]

Hello guys,

 

I've seen videos of open canopies during combat and it looks too easy to spot and track an opponent. Yes, even the one where a 109 is flying without its canopy.

 

There has to be a "penalty" for this ability.

 

How about creating increased blurring effects at higher speeds when the canopy is open?

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Why not just make his head shake more due to the wind coming into the cockpit? This will ofcourse override if you turned head-bob off