New Bullet Strike Timing and Location Improvements (Video)

[Nocke]

Omg... Time to start using the ignore user functionality. My commiserations to Jason. It must really s**** to joyfully want to show a nice new feature to the game, and seeing it turned into just another Luftwhiner thread. Why can't you just stay with this stuff in the existing threads?

[Danziger]

The 37mm hot was a lucky shot after I threw a hundred rounds at the Lagg. All of this was done to just show the new bullets effects timing. Remind me never to show new stuff.

 

Jason

I guess you should've used a Stuka shooting an La-5 for the 37mm demonstration and a 190 taking a ton of hits from a Yak for the other one. You have to remember if you post anything that even remotely implies that German planes could have any possibility of losing or being inferior in any way there will be hardcore German only flying extremists pouring out of the woodwork to whine about Russian bias.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'm looking forward to the whining when the P39 starts getting one shot kills with it's 37mm gun.

 

How can someone not understand that if you do get a direct hit with a 37mm cannon on a single seat aircraft that it is going to be a kill shot, no matter who made the gun or the aircraft?

 

Keep on showing us these kinds of things Jason, and ignore the trolls.

Edited May 1, 2017 by BlitzPig_EL

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Great, just when this sim gets even better my 760 fries out on me. Guess I'm gonna have to wait a while before I'm online again...

Edited May 1, 2017 by spartan85

[Jade_Monkey]

The 37mm hot was a lucky shot after I threw a hundred rounds at the Lagg. All of this was done to just show the new bullets effects timing. Remind me never to show new stuff.

 

Jason

If you tell some people they just won $1M out of nowhere they would complain about the taxes.

 

I'd like to think they don't represent the rest of the community though.

[Feathered_IV]

Damn.  I knew the lufties would go spastic over that video.  This is why we cant have nice things. 

[II./JG1_Kadin]

Battle of "Gifts": the gift that is not done being unwrapped!!

Thank you!

[Dutchvdm]

I'm looking forward to the whining when the P39 starts getting one shot kills with it's 37mm gun.

 

How can someone not understand that if you do get a direct hit with a 37mm cannon on a single seat aircraft that it is going to be a kill shot, no matter who made the gun or the aircraft?

 

Keep on showing us these kinds of things Jason, and ignore the trolls.

 

I think it will be disproportionate to the whining over the P-39 engine and limit's       . But i agree, a 37 mm round should shred anything.

 

Ontopic: Can't wait to try it out in the new patch, although i never had the idea the current effect where bad or outdated.

 

Grt M 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Martijnvdm

[Beazil]

Loving the new bullet and cannon rendering.  I'm looking forward to seeing this in game.  Thanks for taking the time to film and post Jason, and for the comments regarding 4k visuals.  I'm sure the high res monitor guys are excited to see this in action (as well as the rest of us!).  And for you guys complaining about bias, just knock it off.  You are killing this for the rest of us.  

 

Aside:  If you think the other side is so much better than "your" side, go fly a few sorties as the "enemy".  You'll find differences.  Some of them large, some of them small, and some of them won't even be noticeable, but you won't find bias.

 

Really guys, just stop.

[smink1701]

Thanks Jason!

[Finkeren]

you must be know that Nudelman-Suranov NS 37mm cannon was an unsuccessful anti-tank weapon, with low rate of fire, and a powerful recoil effect who cause the lose of the aiming.The possibility of shotdown a fighter with this anti-tank weapon, is very remote.Unlike the MG-151 /20mm who was a succesfull air-to-air weapon.

In other hand, with are very gratefull for your comment about this issues, and we hope thay you will try to fix in the future damage models.

Yeah sure, the NS-37 was complete rubbish.

 

That's why they made 2750 Yak-9Ts that had it as its main armament.

 

Wait...

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The 37mm hot was a lucky shot after I threw a hundred rounds at the Lagg. All of this was done to just show the new bullets effects timing. Remind me never to show new stuff. 

 

Jason

Jason, just remember who the source is. Most of the loudest complainers are the same small minority over and over. It is nice work and we (almost) all appreciate it.

 

@Feathered - Luftie should be capitalized. It is a derisive proper noun. I'm proud to be one and claim no bias

Also, will this be a hotfix (sooner) or in a full update (later)?

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

I guess you should've used a Stuka shooting an La-5 for the 37mm demonstration and a 190 taking a ton of hits from a Yak for the other one. You have to remember if you post anything that even remotely implies that German planes could have any possibility of losing or being inferior in any way there will be hardcore German only flying extremists pouring out of the woodwork to whine about Russian bias.

and by the way; what are you doing in Killeen? my base?

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Ugh... This is why we can't have nice things... 

 

OT, that looks friggin' superb, Jason!

 

I miss the times where I had hours upon hours to fly IL-2. 

[216th_Jordan]

The 37mm hot was a lucky shot after I threw a hundred rounds at the Lagg. All of this was done to just show the new bullets effects timing. Remind me never to show new stuff. 

 

Jason

 

A lot of people appreciate that you show stuff like this! Those few people interfering shouldn't take away the fun of others.

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

If you get hit by a 37mm cannon shell its over for every fighter used in WW2. That was one reason why the german 37mm Flak was so successful one hit was mostly enough for a kill.

As i said previously, it is almost impossible that you hitting to an agile fighter with an NS-37 anti-tank weapon with low rate of fire and POWERFUL RECOIL, who lose the aiming with the first shot.

German 37mm flak was an Anti-aircraft weapon, based on ground, nothing to do with we are talking. and the aiming is much better, with the weapon static, and fixed to ground.

 

That the NS 37 cannon was an unsuccessful weapon in aircombat does not change the fact that if one scores a hit the effects on the target are devastating. Thats also the reason why the german army tryed at the end of the war to replace the 20mm Flak with 3cm MK103 cannons.

Yes my friend, and Saturn-V rocket could be more devastating than a NS-37 cannon, if you hit a fighter, but Saturn-V was not designed for this purposes, same as NS-37. ..are you kidding or what?

Edited May 1, 2017 by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

[OrLoK]

Gotta have thick skin dealing with us public, im afraid.

 

I speak from personal experience.

 

Regardless, keep the new stuff comming, ignore the nitpickers.

[Feathered_IV]

Big thanks from me too, before the Jg crowd force the thread to be locked. It's always a treat to see the even greater refinements you are adding to the series. Thanks Jason!

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

Yeah sure, the NS-37 was complete rubbish.

 

That's why they made 2750 Yak-9Ts that had it as its main armament.

 

Wait...

Yak-9T was an ANTI-TANK version, ..NOT a fighter version, ..and YES, NS-37 cannon was a complete rubbish for air-to-air combat.   

Edited May 1, 2017 by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

As i said previously, it is almost impossible that you hitting to an agile fighter with an NS-37 anti-tank weapon with low rate of fire and POWERFUL RECOIL, who lose the aiming with the first shot.

German 37mm flak was an Anti-aircraft weapon, based on ground, nothing to do with we are talking. and the aiming is much better, with the weapon static, and fixed to ground.

 

Yes my friend, and Saturn-V rocket could be more devastating than a NS-37 cannon, if you hit a fighter, but Saturn-V was not designed for this purposes, same as NS-37. ..are you kidding or what?

Check your privilege ... err, research I mean. Firstly, I'm not sure what your problem even is. This video is related to animations and visual effects, not gun performance and capabilities. Jason hit 190 with NS-37, so what ? I can do that to, just lower the time speed to negative two or four and I can be more precise than AIM-9. Besides, this gun was slightly changed and deployed even after war in form of N-37 on fighter aircraft such as MiG-15. So I think you might be quite mistaken here ...

 

But since you also insist on engaging into that kind of discussion, which if i may add, you should do only after researching something rather than applying your emotions I'm going to add in spoiler what is the actual state of things.

 

 

The arms designers A. E. Nudelman and A. S. Suranov from the OKB-16 experimental design bureau began to discuss the development of a 37mm aircraft cannon as early as April 1941. Earlier, OKB-16, under the management of Ya. G. Taubin, had lost a competition against Shpitalniy’s OKB-15 in introducing a 23mm aircraft cannon (MP-6 versus VYa). Nudelman and Suranov recognised the numerous drawbacks of the Sh-37 and, although that cannon was about to be introduced into series production, they decided to come up with their own design. The two design heads developed the automatic mechanism of their new 37mm cannon and led the entire design team. V. Ya. Nemenov designed the feed mechanism, M. P. Bundin conducted basic tests and G. A. Zhirnykh designed the hydraulic brake, the back plate and did the calculations for the automatic mechanism of the cannon. Having learned from the failure of the magazine-fed MP-6 cannon, the new 37mm gun was designed with an ammunition belt feed mechanism. This meant that the cannon could be installed in engines and wings with no modifications being necessary. The first prototype of the short-recoil operated 11-P 37mm cannon was completed on July 27th 1941.

 

Only three months later the weapon was installed on the VK-105 engine of the LaGG-3 aircraft and tested on the Ural shooting range for the first time. The first version of the 11-P cannon fired a belted cartridge case, in which the belt was slightly deformed during chambering thereby absorbing some of the impact energy. This simple method was used previously on the 23mm MP-6 cannon to prevent any rebound of the breechblock as it reached the battery position. However, during the ground and flight tests in April 1942 the Air Force requested that the 11-P cannon should fire the standard cartridge of the Sh-37 cannon, which was already in series production. The Sh-37 cartridge was basically identical to the cartridge used in the experimental 11-P cannon and only differed in having no belt. After switching to the unbelted cartridge, the breechblock of the 11-P cannon rebounded and frequent misfires resulted. In consequence, improvements to the weapon and repeated tests were requested. The designers of OKB-16 overcame the rebound problem by slightly shortening the cartridge chamber and by introducing two anti-rebound pawls in the breechblock body.

 

The improved 11-P cannon chambered for the standard Sh-37 cartridge passed the second tests successfully during July and August 1942. 

These tests clearly showed that the 11-P was far superior to the Sh-37. It was smaller, lighter, faster firing, more reliable and consisted of little more than half the number of parts as the Sh-37. Additionally, the design of the weapon did not limit the ammunition load, as it was the case on the Sh-37. However, no recommendation to introduce the 11-P cannon into series production was made. This can be explained by the fact that the Air Force had previously accepted the

Sh-37, which now turned out to be inferior to the 11-P cannon.

 

The members of the test commission were apparently unwilling to lose face in front of Stalin, so they played for time. The Air Force delayed the approval of the 11-P cannon and requested numerous repeated tests. This was too much for A. E. Nudelman, who directly turned to the Soviet leader I. V. Stalin and explained the matter. His complaint was successful, because the people’s commissar of armament then ordered the Izhevsk Machine Building Plant to prepare 40

11-P cannon by November 7th 1942. At that time, during the most intense moments of WWII, this factory had to produce two different aircraft cannon in the same calibre. Only by working in three shifts per day and for 7 days a week could the requested 40 weapons be finished in time. On December 30th 1942 the State Committee for Defence decided by its order No. 2674 to remove the Sh-37 from series production and to accept the 11-P aircraft cannon instead. The weapon received the official designation NS-37, with the first two letters representing the initials of the designers Nudelman and Suranov. The NS-37 cannon received the patent number 5664 and its designers were awarded the State Prize. Large scale series production started in 1943 and A. S. Suranov assisted the Izhevsk Machine Building Plant in mastering this. At that plant the hydraulic barrel brake of the NS-37 was improved by a talented engineer: A. A. Rikhter. He was asked to work in OKB-16, where he subsequently became one of the leading designers.

 

The series production of A. S. Yakolev’s fighter aircraft Yak-9T (T for “tyazhelovooruzhenniy” = heavily armed) was ordered on December 25th 1942. It was armed with a single NS-37 engine cannon provided with an ammunition load of 30 rounds. The weapon was rigidly mounted to the aircraft’s engine in order to absorb the violent recoil force. However, the engines were not designed to withstand such a high load and frequent cracks in the cylinder heads and the mounting lugs were observed. The 37mm cannon had its maximum recoil force of 7,500kg in the instant the breechblock hit the back plate. To solve this problem an additional support was installed at the back plate. However, because of this additional mount the pilot’s seat had to be moved back 400mm. The first Yak-9T fighters armed with the NS-37 participated in the battle of Kursk between July and August 1943. The appearance of the Yak-9T had devastating consequences for the German Air Force. The regiment of F. I. Shinkarenko claimed 49 German aircraft downed in only 4 days during 1943 and at the same time only lost 4 Yak-9T fighters. As a result, German pilots tried not to get involved in combat when encountering a “flying Ferdinand”, as they called the Yak-9T.

 

Three years after the initial request of the Air Force, two NS-37 cannon were finally installed under the wings of the IL-2 attack aircraft. In this application the aircraft carried a total ammunition load of 100 rounds. The guns received a muzzle brake to reduce the heavy recoil, which made accurate firing at small targets very difficult. On April 8th 1943 series production of the IL-2 attack aircraft armed with two NS-37 cannon was approved. From July to December 1943 troop tests were carried out, but in November that year it was decided to replace the 37mm guns with two 23mm VYa cannon. Apparently, the 37mm weapons were just too powerful for the IL-2.

The NS-37 cannon did not remain in service for long after WWII, since the aircraft that carried it were soon replaced by new jet fighters. A total of 8,090 NS-37 cannon were produced by plant No. 74 (Izhevsk) by the end of 1945, when production was terminated.

 

 

Source: Christian Koll, SOVIET CANNON A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY OF SOVIET GUNS AND AMMUNITION IN CALIBRES 12.7MM TO 57MM, Linz, Austria, 2009, pages 355 to 357

 

 

 

Yak-9T was an ANTI-TANK version, ..NOT a fighter version, ..and YES, NS-37 was a complete rubbish for air-to-air combat.    

Yeah, right. Except not.  Christian in his book on pages 357-358 presents a very interesting report on opinions about combat employment of NS-37 on Yak-9T fighters. Original document is posted as well as translation, I'm dropping only latter one since first one is of no use for those who cannot read Russian language.

 

 

The deputy chief engineer for armament of the 15 air forces,

Engineer-Colonel comrade TRONZA

Copy: To the head and chief designer of OKB -16,comrade NUDELMAN

The army

of the Bryansk front

O P I N I O N

ON THE COMBAT EMPLOYMENT OF THE 37mm AIRCRAFT CANNON NUDELMAN-SURANOV

“NS-37”, INSTALLED IN THE AIRCRAFT Yak-9T

Within the 11 combined air corps operating at the Bryansk front at the moment, 3 air regiments (two squadrons) are armed with the 37mm aircraft cannon Nudelman-Suranov “NS-37”.

The aircraft Yak-9T of these regiments armed with the “NS-37” cannon conducted 727 sorties, fired 3,850 rounds and destroyed the following enemy equipment during combat operations from July 30th to August 15th 1943:

enemy aircraft 16                                 locomotives 1

motor vehicles 30   railroad cars with ammunition 6

trains 3                                 anti-aircraft positions 2

On the basis of the combat operations outlined above, it is possible to conclude that the 37mm aircraft cannon of OKB-16, the Nudelman-Suranov “NS-37”, is the ultimate aircraft armament.

The high rate of fire, high muzzle velocity, failure-free operation, large effect of the projectiles on different targets, comparatively low weight, simplicity of the cannon and its installation on the aircraft Yak-9T and the simplicity in exploitation – ensure, that this cannon is the best choice for pilots and technical personnel and the combat employment as indicated above. Simultaneously with this note I would like to express my APPRECIATION for the creation, mass production and combat employment of this powerful aircraft armament to the designers of the cannon “NS -37” and to the association of the plant No. 74 NKV, who mastered the series production of the cannon. The pilots and technical personnel on the front have the best opinion of the 37mm aircraft cannon of

OKB-16, NUDELMAN-SURANOV “NS -37”.

August 23rd 1943 The deputy engineer for armament of the 11 combined

air corps, engineer major CHEKISLOV

 

If you would have any negative assumptions about Mr. Koll bias, he is of Austrian origin. No bias included.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

As i said previously, it is almost impossible that you hitting to an agile fighter with an NS-37 anti-tank weapon with low rate of fire and POWERFUL RECOIL, who lose the aiming with the first shot.

German 37mm flak was an Anti-aircraft weapon, based on ground, nothing to do with we are talking. and the aiming is much better, with the weapon static, and fixed to ground.

 

Yes my friend, and Saturn-V rocket could be more devastating than a NS-37 cannon, if you hit a fighter, but Saturn-V was not designed for this purposes, same as NS-37. ..are you kidding or what?

 

Yeah, and the Mk103 has such a low rate of fire and power recoil that you couldn't even shoot down a B-17 with it, let alone a P-51.

 

/s

[III/JG52_Otto_-I-]

I'm looking forward to the whining when the P39 starts getting one shot kills with it's 37mm gun.

 

How can someone not understand that if you do get a direct hit with a 37mm cannon on a single seat aircraft that it is going to be a kill shot, no matter who made the gun or the aircraft?

 

Keep on showing us these kinds of things Jason, and ignore the trolls.

Yes please, , .. let´s ignore the trolls who like to use a TANK-buster aircraft as a fighter.

the P-39  with  M4, 37mm cannon, was designed for anti-tank purposes, not for air-to-air combat. It had a rate of fire less than 3 rounds per second. Unlike MG-151 / 20mm with more than 10 rounds per second.

And Don´t forget that Germans had the Ju-87G Stuka "Kanonenvogel" with two "Bordkanone" 37mm the most successful tank-buster aircraft of the war.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Germans also have Volkswagen. 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

And Don´t forget that Germans had the Ju-87G Stuka "Kanonenvogel" with two "Bordkanone" 37mm the most successful tank-buster aircraft of the war.

 

 

Am I the only person missing the point entirely..?

[CanadaOne]

I'm hip to the groove of any new features and improvements.

 

Thank you for the news of this future update. ✌

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

 

Yes please, , .. let´s ignore the trolls who like to use a TANK-buster aircraft as a fighter.

the P-39  with  M4, 37mm cannon, was designed for anti-tank purposes, not for air-to-air combat. It had a rate of fire less than 3 rounds per second. Unlike MG-151 / 20mm with more than 10 rounds per second.

And Don´t forget that Germans had the Ju-87G Stuka "Kanonenvogel" with two "Bordkanone" 37mm the most successful tank-buster aircraft of the war.

 

Dude, relax. It was lucky hit, maybe even a once in a thousand hit (Jason stated he fired thousands of rounds that day), but a hit nonetheless. Jason was pretty darn close in the video and at that range the likelyhood of a hit goes way up as well. You are focusing way too much on the probability as opposed to the effect. It was a hit and a hit with that round would be devestating.

Edited May 1, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Danziger]

Guys he is obviously some trolling idiot. None of your attempts at correction, education, or talking sense can penetrate his tinfoil hat.

[BlitzPig_EL]

 

Yes please, , .. let´s ignore the trolls who like to use a TANK-buster aircraft as a fighter.

the P-39  with  M4, 37mm cannon, was designed for anti-tank purposes, not for air-to-air combat. It had a rate of fire less than 3 rounds per second. Unlike MG-151 / 20mm with more than 10 rounds per second.

And Don´t forget that Germans had the Ju-87G Stuka "Kanonenvogel" with two "Bordkanone" 37mm the most successful tank-buster aircraft of the war.

 

 

 

Otto, you really need to do proper research before you start ranting about something you obviously know nothing about.

 

The P39, with it's 37mm gun, was designed to meet a United States Army Air Corps requirement for a bomber interceptor.  It was not designed as a ground attack aircraft, and that is not how we or the Russians used it.

[Jason_Williams]

Off the rails guys. Closed. 

 

Jason