Gunsights, do you need them ?

[HagarTheHorrible]

The Germans seem to have it in for the gun sight on my LaGG as it regularly seems to take the brunt of any damage.  It's nice to have the reticule undamaged but does it really make any difference to shooting ?  I just use the cracks in the broken glass to give me a reference point and offset as if the reticule was there.  All I need now is something to plug the holes in the canopy to keep out the draft.

Edited December 8, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[DD_bongodriver]

Don't forget that even if the sight gets shot out you still have the little iron sight to use.

[DD_fruitbat]

Since the ammo seems like its about 2m in diameter at the moment, no not really.

[Marcomies]

Sights are pretty mandatory with track ir at least, it's pretty hard to use any reference points when your head is moving around.

 

 

Since the ammo seems like its about 2m in diameter at the moment, no not really.

Do you mean the tracers or what?

[DD_fruitbat]

I mean all you have to do is vaguely point your aircraft in the general direction of the enemy plane and you will hit it. Of all the flight sims i've ever played, this game has by far the easiest gunnery.

[Dutch]

In my experience so far with this 'combat flight simulator', as long as the enemy aircraft so much as approaches my gunsight, he's dead. I have to conduct further experimentation, but so far it seems to be a rule of  'if I can actually see the enemy, I will shoot him down'.

 

There's realism, as the Welsh would say.

 

Edited December 8, 2013 by Dutch

[Tone71]

I mean all you have to do is vaguely point your aircraft in the general direction of the enemy plane and you will hit it. Of all the flight sims i've ever played, this game has by far the easiest gunnery.

I'd like to think I'm all sorts of awesome but no, I think you're right.

[Uriah]

You guys got it all wrong.  The Force is with you.

[Marcomies]

Engines get shot up really easily in BoS. Usually in simulators it takes a certain amount of damage to engine area (or any component) to cause actual damage. In old IL2 you could just spray into the general direction of enemy and get some hits but they didn't usually do anything because any single part didn't accumulate enough damage to actually trigger any fault.

 

 In BoS it seems that maybe even one bullet can cause any level of engine damage. I kinda like is as long as it's realistic.

[silent_one]

Sight is important if you want to make accurate deflection shots. The circle and mill index is pretty vital. Particularly at high angle off.

[BigMotor]

Got to use the standby iron sight today (to the left of the shattered one). It works great if you have Track IR , just move your head over that way until the pips are aligned.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I had to check I didn't have some sort of 'easy' setting on, but it appears that after all these years I can finally shoot things down, without trying. Yay me.

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

outside of incenerating a bad guy instantly, there is nothing more satisfying than to get an iron sight kill on a bad guy

[Finkeren]

I only got to fly this version for a couple of hours last night, but I must say, that I also got the impression, that enemy aircraft are easy to hit and destroy compared to my expectations, though nowhere near simply "pointing your nose in the general direction."

 

I think this is the result of four factors working together:

 

1. A large degree of scatter, which is carried over from RoF. This effect gets worse as the guns heat up.

 

2. A very large volume of fire. Especially the LaGG spits out a big load of heavy caliber projectiles in a very short time. Both the ShVAK and the UBS have a rate of fire exceeding 800rpm. Remember: You're firing many more bullets than you can actually see. Only about 1 in 5-7 shots is a tracer, but all the other bullets are modelled, even though they are invisible.

 

3. All types of ammunition seems to do significant damage. A 20mm hit hardly ever leaves you with full fighting capability.

 

4. Certain types of engine damage seems to occur very frequent. This is also inherited from RoF, where a stray bullet quite often does critical damage to oil system, engine or cooling.

 

These factors combine to create a "shotgun" effect that is extremely deadly at ranges below 150m. My hunch is, that both the scatter, the damage rating of the bullets and certain parts of engine DM could do with a bit of tweaking.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Finkeren

[Scarecrow]

WIP damage modelling. Enjoy being uber while it lasts, especially in the Lagg.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Seriously though, with little or no head movement, (there is some movement in the vertical plane) then the reflective sight is to all intense and purposes superfluous, it may as well just be a painted dot and ring.  The sight mount glass on the LaGG corresponds to the 300 yrd range so even if the reticule is missing you have a centre point and size reference.  All that is then needed is a bit of practice to know where to offset aim for deflection shooting.   The large amounts of damage done with anything that contacts also seems to make up for precision aiming, although this may change, obviously,  during the course of the development.

[gavagai]

1. A large degree of scatter, which is carried over from RoF. This effect gets worse as the guns heat up.

 

Unless you have direct evidence for that assertion, Finkeren, then I think it is irresponsible to suggest it.  The dispersion in RoF is a special case for WW1, and it was only implemented in 2012.  The original dispersion was much tighter and came from tests in WW2.

[=RvE=Windmills]

I mean all you have to do is vaguely point your aircraft in the general direction of the enemy plane and you will hit it. Of all the flight sims i've ever played, this game has by far the easiest gunnery.

 

Probably because critical engine damage is inflicted the majority of the time with any kind of hit.

[Finkeren]

Unless you have direct evidence for that assertion, Finkeren, then I think it is irresponsible to suggest it.  The dispersion in RoF is a special case for WW1, and it was only implemented in 2012.  The original dispersion was much tighter and came from tests in WW2.

Gav, nothing I said is anything more than speculation based on my limited experience with combat in BoS, and I said so in the beginning of my post.

 

I've managed to achieve hits with both the 109 and the LaGG, where I was clearly not perfectly aligned with the target. It definately feels like, the dispersion from RoF is there, and in that case, I think it needs to be toned down.

 

Perhaps the devs can give us some insight into what dispersion is used?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Finkeren

[Volkoff]

The team has the best understanding of how the DM and gunnery is implemented. We can only speculate. I would not be shocked if it turns out that, upon the release of IL2 Battle of Stalingrad, we will still be able to get within 150 meters of our target fighter and fairly easily bring it down with a one second or two second burst of fire. After all, we are hurling 20 mm, 23mm, and 37 mm canon rounds at the plane in front of us, not rifle caliber gun fire.  

 

MJ

Edited December 9, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[DD_fruitbat]

I'm not talking about damage, and dm's in general. 

 

Purely the ease that you can lay down your fire on the enemy target.

 

I find the actual shooting part incredibly easy in this game, easier than any other flight sim I've played, and i don't believe it was that easy in real life at all.

 

What the bullets do afterwards when they hit is a completely different issue.

[Volkoff]

I'm not talking about damage, and dm's in general. 

 

Purely the ease that you can lay down your fire on the enemy target.

 

I find the actual shooting part incredibly easy in this game, easier than any other flight sim I've played, and i don't believe it was that easy in real life at all.

 

What the bullets do afterwards when they hit is a completely different issue.

 

 

Well, with years of experience and a plane armed with a 20 mm canon, I am sure you wouldn't have too much trouble bringing down planes. You play ROF, right? After getting used to bringing down planes with rifle calier peashooters, taking shots between 50 meters and 300 meters, I don't doubt that you are a proficient killer with a 20 mm canon, firing at a target no more than 300 meters away. You may just be really good at shooting. Maybe you are too modest?

 

 MJ

[DD_fruitbat]

Well, ignoring RoF, because as you say no 20mm, its much much easier to hit in this game than il2 or CloD imo with the same calibre.

 

As to my ability, well ask =69.GIAP=GRACH, he's flown with me lots of times  

Edited December 9, 2013 by fruitbat

[Volkoff]

Well, ignoring RoF, because as you say no 20mm, its much much easier to hit in this game than il2 or CloD imo

 

As to my ability, well ask =69.GIAP=GRACH, he's flown with me lots of times  

 

Too bad you don't fly with Grach as a member of the 69 GIAP.    If you ever want to join a squad, please consider joining the 69 GIAP.  We are a transnational squad open to all persons with a sense of humor and a desire to simfly as part of a cohesive team. 

 

MJ

[DD_fruitbat]

Already in a squad.

[Volkoff]

Already in a squad.

 

Roger Fruitbat. Hey, if your squad sports planes with the Macy's department store logo or San Pellegrino  bottled water logo, I hope the 69 GIAP gets to sim-fly with you and your team. 

 

MJ

Edited December 9, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[6high]

I'd like to think I'm all sorts of awesome but no, I think you're right.

..this!

Just plain impossible that i suddendly hit something in a sim....although the thought is nice

[Krupi]

Is that the 6High!?! 

 

JG52?

[usr]

Roger Fruitbat. Hey, if your squad sports planes with the Macy's department store logo or San Pellegrino  bottled water logo, I hope the 69 GIAP gets to sim-fly with you and your team.

Hahaha, thank you so much, from now on, whenever i fly red, my battle cry shall be "FOR MACY!"

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Is that the 6High!?! 

 

JG52?

Who else.

Currently in BoS it is possible to go from old bomber pilot to Herman Graf in the course of one access session.Hopefully this will be toned down somewhat by release.

[LukeFF]

Well, ignoring RoF, because as you say no 20mm, its much much easier to hit in this game than il2 or CloD imo with the same calibre.

 

ROF has 20mm weapons.