SuperSampling vs ingame AA

[HunDread]

Has anyone tested what amount of supersampling corresponds to the ingame AA options regarding performance (FPS)?

 

I mean something like this

 

1.2 SS performance = 2x ingame AA performance

1.5 SS performance = 4x ingame AA performance

 

Thanks

[dburne]

I use both for best image clarity on my rig.

 

1.3 SS

4x ingame AA

Edited April 27, 2017 by dburne

[HunDread]

Thanks but do you have any information on the performance comparison between the two method?

[Nibbio]

Go figure, I got worse performance with 1.2 SS+2x ingame AA than 1.5 SS+2x ingame AA. I'd really like to know why...

SS is set through Oculus Tray Tool, not Steam VR

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Or Disable all ingame AA (which is very old MSAA from 15 years ago)

Enable SS and External High quality AA (like SMAA, FXAA, TXAA)

Sorted

[dburne]

Thanks but do you have any information on the performance comparison between the two method?

 

Not really, I just know with those settings I maintain 90 fps more often than not, and ASW  when in heavy battle.

[dburne]

Ok so I disabled the in game AA.

In Nvidia Control panel set override the application setting, and 8XMSAA.

 

I have only flown 1 mission in my Stalingrad campaign so far, but it appears to certainly look better and I seem to be getting better performance, maintaining 90 fps ( no ASW) in the Rift more than I was previously.

 

Will know more when get a chance for more testing, but it appears at first glance this will be better for me.

[Urra]

Ok so I disabled the in game AA.

In Nvidia Control panel set override the application setting, and 8XMSAA.

 

I have only flown 1 mission in my Stalingrad campaign so far, but it appears to certainly look better and I seem to be getting better performance, maintaining 90 fps ( no ASW) in the Rift more than I was previously.

 

Will know more when get a chance for more testing, but it appears at first glance this will be better for me.

If you disable program aa, I don't think it allows any outside aa to kick in. But if you set it to 2x then you set 4x,8x outside of program. Only thing that would work is fxaa if you turn off aa in program. Edited April 28, 2017 by TunaEatsLion

[dburne]

If you disable program aa, I don't think it allows any outside aa to kick in. But if you set it to 2x then you set 4x,8x outside of program. Only thing that would work is fxaa if you turn off aa in program.

 

Well I am pretty sure I had AA as it looked so good, I have seen without any AA and it is not pretty...

 

Will know more with more testing later today hopefully.

[Urra]

Well I am pretty sure I had AA as it looked so good, I have seen without any AA and it is not pretty...

 

Will know more with more testing later today hopefully.

I will have to try it myself...

[dburne]

I will have to try it myself...

 

Maybe the difference is I set " Override the Application Setting", rather than " Enhance"...

 

Strictly a wild guess on my part though.

[HunDread]

Maybe the difference is I set " Override the Application Setting", rather than " Enhance"...

 

Strictly a wild guess on my part though.

 

I believe this should be the case - I have always preferred NVIDIA AA over any ingame AA for any non-VR games (BOS was different though for some reason). Override should be working if ingame AA is switched off I think.

I'm just a bit lost in VR which one to use. ingame AA vs NVIDIA AA vs supersampling

[coconut]

 

 

Go figure, I got worse performance with 1.2 SS+2x ingame AA than 1.5 SS+2x ingame AA. I'd really like to know why... SS is set through Oculus Tray Tool, not Steam VR

 

Weird. Maybe you forgot to restart SteamVR? I think that from the point of view of Oculus, SteamVR is an app, and SS changes won't be taken into account until you restart it. In other words, it's not enough to restart the game only.

[Nibbio]

Weird. Maybe you forgot to restart SteamVR? I think that from the point of view of Oculus, SteamVR is an app, and SS changes won't be taken into account until you restart it. In other words, it's not enough to restart the game only.

 

This is how I go about it: from the desktop on my monitor I start Oculus Tray Tool, then start Steam (but not Steam VR), then I start BOS from the Steam menu, and choose VR. Steam VR then starts automatically with BOS.

When I exit BOS I have to shut down Steam VR if I want to restart BOS or it won't work.

 

SS is set in 1.5 (or 1.2, whatever) in Oculus Tray Tool, but it's 1.0 in Steam VR. I wouldn't want to apply it twice.

Also when I change SS in Oculus Tray Tool it prompts me to restart Oculus Service.

 

I really wish I had at least a vague idea of what I'm doing

Edited April 28, 2017 by Nibbio

[von_Tom]

 

Does OTT override SteamVR when you set a game profile in OTT? Has anyone tried 4xAA and 1.5 SS - is there any noticeable difference between 1.3 and 1.5?

 

Von Tom

[dburne]

Does OTT override SteamVR when you set a game profile in OTT? Has anyone tried 4xAA and 1.5 SS - is there any noticeable difference between 1.3 and 1.5?

 

Von Tom

 

Yes I have. I see a little difference between 1.3 and 1.5 but not enough really to justify it especially as the size of the planes/objects appear to get smaller with the higher PD setting. I ran at 1.5 for a while before settling in on 1.3. Seems to be the best balance for my rig on performance/quality.

 

As far as OTT, I would do one or the other, certainly not both for PD setting. I don't know for a fact, but would think OTT would override - but would seem to hurt performance even more with a PD set in both.

Edited April 30, 2017 by dburne

[von_Tom]

It's odd because I see very little real difference between SS 1.0 and 1.5.  Maybe the instruments text is slightly sharper but that is about it. It is certainly not a completely new graphical experience. 

 

That is using an EVGA 1080 FTW, 4xAA and Sharpen enabled.

 

Maybe I am looking at the wrong things to see the difference?

 

von Tom

[kalbuth]

AFAIK, if you're already at ingame AAx4, pushing SS will not enhance greatly. I don't even see how they mix, tbh, you usually either do SuperSampling or MultiSampling.

If I understand correctly, what OTT SS is doing, is actual Super Sampling (but then, I don't get what "x1.5" means in this context), while IL2 in-game is using MSAA.

 

I can achieve reasonable peformance on a 1070 with SS @ 2.0, though I'm not peaking 90FPS all the time, and hitting the 45FPS low a few times, but I couldn't find a setting that was keeping consistent 90FPS anyway, so ... There are sceneries, like big forest or some towns rendering, that hit my framerate no matter what.

I'll try disable OTT SS and force different kind of AA through Nvidia Inspector.

[dburne]

AFAIK, if you're already at ingame AAx4, pushing SS will not enhance greatly. I don't even see how they mix, tbh, you usually either do SuperSampling or MultiSampling.

If I understand correctly, what OTT SS is doing, is actual Super Sampling (but then, I don't get what "x1.5" means in this context), while IL2 in-game is using MSAA.

 

 

 

1.5 means 1.5 the default resolution afaik. Then adjusted ( downscaled ?) to fit the VR default display res.

[kalbuth]

Correction on my earlier post : there are actual settings in NVidia Inspector to have both MS & SS activated at the same time, so it seems to be a thing....

[dburne]

I currently have 2x AA selected in game.

MSAA at 8X in Nvidia Control Panel with FXAA.

Pixel Density at 1.3.

 

So far looking pretty good with very good performance for me.

Will probaby continue to play around with it, as well I just kind of like doing such things...

[von_Tom]

I currently have 2x AA selected in game.

MSAA at 8X in Nvidia Control Panel with FXAA.

Pixel Density at 1.3.

 

So far looking pretty good with very good performance for me.

Will probaby continue to play around with it, as well I just kind of like doing such things...

Is this sharper than 4x AA and 1.3 SS? Is there a frame rate hit using Nvidia MSAA at 8x?

 

I do not understand the relationship between AA, MSAA and SS and whether or not there is any benefit to mixing and matching.

 

Von Tom

 

Edit: I don't think I even know how to set MSAA/FSAA.

Edited May 1, 2017 by von_Tom

[Nibbio]

PD doesn't get rid of all the jaggies, and is very computationally expensive. Your best bet is to set ingame AA, 2 or 4, and add a moderate PD like 1.2 or 1.3.

[dburne]

Is this sharper than 4x AA and 1.3 SS? Is there a frame rate hit using Nvidia MSAA at 8x?

 

I do not understand the relationship between AA, MSAA and SS and whether or not there is any benefit to mixing and matching.

 

Von Tom

 

Edit: I don't think I even know how to set MSAA/FSAA.

 

It seems to be a little sharper for me.

In Nvidia Control Panel I have:

AF : 8x

AA - FXAA - On

AA Mode- Override application setting

AA Setting 8x

AA Transparency - Multisample ( I assume this equates to MSAA).

 

If I got a framerate hit using the above, it was not much as it certainly was not enough to be noticeable by me.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

It seems to be a little sharper for me.

In Nvidia Control Panel I have:

AF : 8x

AA - FXAA - On

AA Mode- Override application setting

AA Setting 8x

AA Transparency - Multisample ( I assume this equates to MSAA).

 

If I got a framerate hit using the above, it was not much as it certainly was not enough to be noticeable by me.

No thats not how it works mate and all of these settings are 100% ignored by IL2.

 

AA Mode- Override application setting

AA Setting 8x

AA Transparency - Multisample ( I assume this equates to MSAA).

 

IL2 DOES NOT ALLOW FORCED ANTI A Via Control panel only forcing FXAA works(as this is post proccessing)

 

All benefits you are seeing are from FXAA as its one of the better anti a methods around.

 

Also AA transparency has nothing to do with MSAA

the aa Setting 8X is MSAA x 8 and  will do nothing with IL2.

 

[kalbuth]

Few Q then Sshadow :

* Is NVidia Inspector Profile forcing AA parameters onto IL2 any better than NVidia control Panel?

* If possible, on top of MSAA & FXAA, is activating Transparancy MultiSampling (via same NVidia Inspector) having any effect? Would it be usefull? I read that it is usefull for aliasing "thin" objects, which is something dearly needed in IL2 VR (planes seen when co-alt). This is "Google knowledge", so I may be completely misguided on this one

* If nothing is overriding IL2 AA, then I guess with enough horsepower, one could have MSAAx4 in-game + SS @2.0 via OTT and FXAA activated in NVidia control panel? Would that make sense?

Edited May 2, 2017 by kalbuth

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

FXAA Anti aliases EVERYTHING you see on the scene as it is POST processing

It even does text and the map screen. it does everything.
Just not perfect quality but @ 1080P -4K jaggies almost invisible
with only the performance impact of MSAA x1 (1-3 frames on a system struggling to hold 60 fps)

At 4K anti aliasing is Not needed unless you using a screen of low quality.
 

Edited May 2, 2017 by =R4T=Sshadow14

[dburne]

No thats not how it works mate and all of these settings are 100% ignored by IL2.

IL2 DOES NOT ALLOW FORCED ANTI A Via Control panel only forcing FXAA works(as this is post proccessing)

 

All benefits you are seeing are from FXAA as its one of the better anti a methods around.

 

Also AA transparency has nothing to do with MSAA

the aa Setting 8X is MSAA x 8 and  will do nothing with IL2.

 

 

Ok good to know thanks, will play around with some more...

[dburne]

Ok so now I have:

In Nvidia Control Panel

AF - 16x

AA FXAA - On

Gamma Correction - Global setting ON

AA Mode Application Controlled

AA Setting - Application Controlled ( set to 4x in game gui)

AA Transparency - Global setting Off

 

With the above, it is looking pretty good as well plus getting very good performance still.

Hopefully these setting are actually having an affect?

I am having hard time wrapping my head around these dang settings lol.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Thats the correct and only settings that really work for IL2..

ALSO Make sure power management  section of profile is on
"Prefer maximum performance" NOT "Optimal Power".
 

[dburne]

Thats the correct and only settings that really work for IL2..

 

ALSO Make sure power management  section of profile is on

"Prefer maximum performance" NOT "Optimal Power".

 

 

Yep thanks, I always have that set to maximum performance - least I knew that much LOL.

 

Thanks much!

[WIS-Redcoat]

I must confess that this thread is confusing to me because there are so many options and performance is such deciding factor in alot of things mentioned.

 

Assuming I am not as concerned with performance, could someone suggest what I need to do?

 

I have a brand new digital storm high-end PC with an Nvidia 1080 and in-game settings set to Ultra.  I have not done anything else to either Nvidia control panel, OTT, or Steam VR settings.  

 

Thank you in advance for any advice.

[Nibbio]

I must confess that this thread is confusing to me because there are so many options and performance is such deciding factor in alot of things mentioned.

 

Assuming I am not as concerned with performance, could someone suggest what I need to do?

 

I have a brand new digital storm high-end PC with an Nvidia 1080 and in-game settings set to Ultra.  I have not done anything else to either Nvidia control panel, OTT, or Steam VR settings.  

 

Thank you in advance for any advice.

 

I know, it's a mess and there is a lot of conflicting advice. I would keep it as simple as possible, you could try something like this:

 

1) in OTT: create a profile for IL2.exe with SS set to 1.3 (good compromise, anything above you take a higher performance hit with diminishing returns) ASW to auto (sometimes it's useful, and I doubt whether it can be actually turned off)

2) in game: disable AA (it's not really needed with SS 1.3)

3) in game: set the other graphics settings according to your PC specs so that you have 90 fps almost always, and ASW almost never kicks in. Also I would disable dynamic resolution (i.e. set it to full).

 

Change only one setting at a time and try them out with a quick mission of 8 vs. 8, with cloudy skies. It's especially important to check performance when on the tail of a smoking plane, shooting. That's when fps should not drop to the point that ASW artifacts appear (they normally show as distortions of the gunsight reticle).

 

Someone above mentioned enabling FXAA in NVCP, but personally I don't like it, in my system it just blurs everything and causes stuttering.

 

With you PC you could be comfortable with high or ultra graphics presets and terrain x3 or x4

I have an older system (i7 3820 and GTX 1060) and with the above I can get away with balanced preset, terrain normal, no SSAO/HDR, no grass, sharpen on.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Nibbio

[BlackMambaMowTin]

I know, it's a mess and there is a lot of conflicting advice. I would keep it as simple as possible, you could try something like this:

 

1) in OTT: create a profile for IL2.exe with SS set to 1.3 (good compromise, anything above you take a higher performance hit with diminishing returns) ASW to auto (sometimes it's useful, and I doubt whether it can be actually turned off)

2) in game: disable AA (it's not really needed with SS 1.3)

3) in game: set the other graphics settings according to your PC specs so that you have 90 fps almost always, and ASW almost never kicks in. Also I would disable dynamic resolution (i.e. set it to full).

 

Change only one setting at a time and try them out with a quick mission of 8 vs. 8, with cloudy skies. It's especially important to check performance when on the tail of a smoking plane, shooting. That's when fps should not drop to the point that ASW artifacts appear (they normally show as distortions of the gunsight reticle).

 

Someone above mentioned enabling FXAA in NVCP, but personally I don't like it, in my system it just blurs everything and causes stuttering.

 

With you PC you could be comfortable with high or ultra graphics presets and terrain x3 or x4

I have an older system (i7 3820 and GTX 1060) and with the above I can get away with balanced preset, terrain normal, no SSAO/HDR, no grass, sharpen on.

 

Wow, this is amazing. I think I've been blindly messing with setting. 

 

I have an i7 6700k and 1080ti but I get little stutters. I was using 1.3 pixel density and ingame AA. 

 

I'll try your settings. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

This is so out of date it's not even funny.

 

.....several directx versions later....

[BlackMambaMowTin]

This is so out of date it's not even funny.

 

.....several directx versions later....

 

I used OTT as suggested. 

 

I been using VR all this time and I didn't know you can setup profiles for games using OTT. 

 

I set IL-2 to 1.5 ss. 

 

I found that Nibbio was right, AA doesn't make a difference in this game when you have ss. 

 

I tested performance using 8 vs 8 planes and clouds. Clouds hurt performance but overall I got 90fps. 

 

grass: Detailed

landscape distance: 4x

shadows: medium

aa: off

 

I welcome any suggestions you have.

[JG7_X-Man]

@=TBAS=Sshadow14 or anyone else

 

If I turn on HDR on my display, do I turn it off in the game? If I had to guess, I would say "Yes" but I'd like to get an opinion from someone more knowledgeable.