Poll: Rise of Flight or Pacific Theater

[chiliwili69]

I think the poll is fair. Just knowing want people think shouldn´t hurt anyone. And yes, this is read by producers/developers. Users feedback is the first best practice software companies do.

RoF will benefit from VR even more than BoX, and since the controllers are "simpler" it could bring more casual gamers to the genre. In addition, there is no competition in the WWI  sim world (DCS and WT has no WWI planes)

 

I love RoF, but I think ROF VR should not affect current Pacific plans. Instead it could be financially supported by a kickstarter campaign (my first 200$ are also on the table). Or even by some Oculus/HTC developers support programs.

 

Maintaining two engines will be costly for the long term, specially when the VR technology will evolve. The idea of creating a WW1 pack for IL-2 saga as a way to resurrect RoF could work.

 

3 years ago I knew that BoS was going to VR sooner or later. Now I can say I was right. And Jason will agree that it has been a good business decision. (isn´t Jason?)

 

I could also forecast that in one way or the other, we will have RoF in VR before the new 2nd HMD generation arrives...  (if not, we will still have BoX!)

Edited May 1, 2017 by chiliwili69

[Gambit21]

I think the poll is fair. Just knowing want people think shouldn´t hurt anyone. And yes, this is read by producers/developers. Users feedback is the first best practice software companies do.

 

On one hand you're correct if we are in a world where we have zero previous knowledge and no other statements have been made.

On the other hand if you've been paying any attention AT ALL, and know these Devs and the challenge they face, what they have to deliver and

the road map they've committed to with 1C, and live not just completely ignored statements they've made on this very subject...then the only conclusion is that this discussion is pointless.

[Wolferl_1791]

I do not think the codes can just be pasted over to ROF, it aint that easy . At least I do not think so. If you look at what happened in this game. Do you think it will get the same appeal? 

I really think there is a market for VR WW1 aviation, but it depend on the cost making it. I hope there is enough people to do it. Myself I have a hard priority to do. I cannot fly them all. I can hardly divide time between DCS and BOS 

Of course, the code can't just be pasted over. WW1 also doesn't have the same appeal for some (although it rocks for others). I myself didn't think much of those paper planes for a long time, but then I played the 3 free planes and loved the fast action and tactical energy fights. Ended up buying it all and playing it for a long time in SP. But VR kind-of changed all that, as the close combat fits the low resolution perfectly. One year ago I've said that RoF (and by that I mean any WW1 sim) would be the king of the current generation of VR hardware. I still maintain that. And it's not as niche as it seems. I haven't yet played Elite Dangerous for example, because it looks so complex and it seems to take up so much of my time. And I'd rather play Kerbal Space Program to fill up my space batteries, I don't mind not having VR for that. But when it comes to flight sims, the new tech changed everything for me. I've played War Thunder for one year, then DCS, now I basically deleted War Thunder and focus on DCS (modern helicopters) and IL-2 completely. 

 

 

i would love a "WW1 pack" for IL2.  

 

That would indeed be the best scenario. The thing I miss the most about RoF is the career and overall immersion. Then again, I did get into it very late in development. So I have no doubt that BoS will catch up to it in that department. I think that the devs spending time on the SinglePlayer aspect of the game is a great idea and indeed would open up the engine for the WW1 planes as well, somewhere in the future. There's no question of which is the better engine. 

 

 

/thread

Since you seem to have the time to reply to a thread you don't like, maybe you should invest that time into becoming a forum moderator and just close at will any thread you don't like. Until then, I am sorry to have wasted your hard drive space with my opinions. You can delete your C:Windows\System32 folder where the temporary files of this thread are located 

The whole point of me opening this thread was to get an idea of the support WW1 planes might get from this community, even at the expense of WW2. I know what the devs have said, because, for years I've lurked these forums, waiting for continued RoF support. I didn't bother posting since the game was already well-rounded and the 3rd party campaign made it exquisite. But as soon as the VR question popped up, I became a very vocal advocate for it for IL-2, even when the devs said they weren't interested. See where we are now? With me playing a game I love and having a blast at it. Waited a year, worth the wait. There is no question that WW1 planes will make a comeback, and this company sits in the best position to do it. The current poll (or useless survey, whatever you might think of it) shows them that 80% of the voters would love to have WW1 planes, and half of those wouldn't mind having it before other WW2 planes. If they look at it a year from now, if it convinces them even 1%, then I've done my duty.

[AndyJWest]

... The current poll (or useless survey, whatever you might think of it) shows them that 80% of the voters would love to have WW1 planes, and half of those wouldn't mind having it before other WW2 planes. If they look at it a year from now, if it convinces them even 1%, then I've done my duty.

 

The poll currently shows that 81 people say they would be 'willing to buy' your proposed RoF2.  80% of an entirely self-selected group that were interested enough in the topic to respond. Not 80% of people who own BoX. Or 80% of people who read the forum. Trying to make out that it is some kind of 'vote' is silly.

 

I'd like to see more work put into RoF myself, and I would certainly consider paying for it. I don't however think that making misleading claims about the level of support for it is appropriate. The developers aren't stupid, and are quite capable of investigating the potential market themselves.

[Lusekofte]

I have no problem buying it, my problem is time, and reading this site and other sim related forums , I am not alone. Time is the factor. I could keep myself busy with flightsim 3 to 4 hours a day if I was home and family busyness would not occupy my time, as it is I am lucky I get 3 to 4 hours a week. 

And 2 of them are spent on FNBF . leaving me with 2 hours of DCS rest of the time. I could probably push it to more, but I have an interest in what my family do

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

The whole point of me opening this thread was to get an idea of the support WW1 planes might get from this community, even at the expense of WW2.

 

-snip-

 

Maybe I'm missing the point of your snarky reply, than..?

 

Maybe you should become a moderator and delete any posts that don't directly agree with your position on something.

 

They should commission you an officer's staff position and award you a Knight's Cross for your direct contribution to the outcome of the "VR question." 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[SOLIDKREATE]

 

 

 

Exactly, check under my avatar.

[Gambit21]

Neighbors!

[MajorDogbite]

As one who bought and supported ROF from the beginning and bought every plane and field and weapon mod, I can't  believe they did not make a crap load of money on WW1, after all 777 didn't close shop. I like the IL sims and have bought into them over the years as well, but ROF is still the best sense of flight imo. The open nature of these aircraft just make it so much more immersive. As I recall it, 777 was the first  flightsim to give away the base game and 2  aircraft then start selling planes, weapons and field mods. This is now the business model that DCS and 1C/777 use and that's fine. As ROF proved, with a pre-order system you can finance ahead of development and gauge how much work you can put into a given expansion based on money coming in. I can not believe they could not inject WW1 planes, maps and campaigns in the BOX engine using a method they pioneered.

 

I did not originally buy into BOX, however when they added VR (the only way I will play now) I purchased the BOM campaign and am pleased with the product, as expected, given the history of these talented studios. Having invested hundreds of dollars in ROF only to see it abandoned, I will not be doing the same by buying additional campaigns, aircraft and such. I have plenty of WW2 stuff for VR and frankly am getting bored of the era after so many years, so this will be enough for me. I like to fly all sorts of birds from all sorts of eras. If 1C/777 sees fit to inject WW1 planes and campaigns into the BOX engine, I will be purchasing anew, but in a more moderate way given the burn that is my ROF reflux. 

Newer fans of the WW2 era will no doubt disagree and that's fine. Just one old gamer's opinion.

[Gambit21]

As one who bought and supported ROF from the beginning and bought every plane and field and weapon mod, I can't  believe they did not make a crap load of money on WW1, after all 777 didn't close shop. 

 

 

RoF was barely making it...Jason had to promise the world (channel map, Felixe Stowe...) just to stay afloat.

The fact that RoF is not currently in development should tell you all you need to know about the "load" of money you speak of.

[MajorDogbite]

ROF was the first sim I spent more than $60 on (hundreds actually). DCS and BOX both have used the "sell and pre-sell of assets and addons" approach for years and are still alive. I appreciate that flightsims aren't the big sellers that other games are, but there is still enough market that people keep making them. Perhaps 777's studio suffered from bloat, increases in cost of programing talent,  inflation, etc. and what not, hence the pooling of talent with 1C. Whatever the cause, it would be nice if a group like Team Fusion  or such would appear and be given access to source code to save this sim. Since the days of Red Baron, ROF as been the only real WW1 treatment in flight. It is still the best representation of a sense of actually flying ever done on the pc, imo. It would be a shame to just let it disappear and not be brought into the VR age. Given what I have seen so many dedicated modders show what can be accomplish (even without source code) in many games over the years, I refuse to give up hope that this won't someday be done. If I am just living a pipe dream it will be a sad loss for the flightsim community. as VR is the ultimate pc flight experience and should be experience by everyone who loves the genre. Like the use of 3D glasses before it, it is truly a game changer. At a minimum, I will at least hope for a descent Vorpx treatment at some point. Then maybe I can get back into my Folkers.

Edited June 3, 2017 by MajorDogbite

[Nic727]

I think there is a lot more that can be done with Rise of Flight. I'm not thinking about a ROF 2, but more like a paid engine upgrade, revamped UI and new campaign. So like a new game, but you keep all your saves/mods/etc. since it's only a BIG paid upgrade.

 

But ROF still looks good in 2017.

[SeaW0lf]

It would be great to see ROF 2 released, but it could only work if they fix the flight models they broke / nerfed in the end of 2014. This is the main reason it simply died over the last couple years. Right off the bat the servers took a big hit, some simply disappeared overnight (the airquake servers, which are as important as the full real servers, never recovered), and in the following years the servers simply died.

 

A game with such level of detail and mystique should run basically forever. The landscape and cockpits are a bit outdated, but it is still the best sim out there in general. For who does not know about historical performance, ROF is right now a Christmas shop for any simmer of the genre. I also like the fact that we can buy all planes / mods individually. If the 2014 fix was carefully done, the old 'Albatros' crowd would have came back, there would be more historical balance and today we would have servers as full if not more than what IL-2 has now.  Then they could push for an ROF 2 and it would be profitable.

 

The other also crucial aspect to me is that ROF 2 should be as much as possible an import of ROF 1, this way the sim will be an improvement on what has been done over several years and not a commercial / pop version of what we have now, which is usually less detailed and cared for. Some of the new BOX features are poorer than what we had / have in ROF, like visibility and especially lightening, both critical for air combat.

 

In fact they could enhance the current ROF graphics, landscape, introduce support to VR and fix the broken flight models, improve some others, release some versions, like engine versions in the Albatros / Camel series, for example, some vintage aircraft like a Jacobs Dr.I with a130hp Clerget engine for single player, and add some other things. ROF 2 perhaps would not be a bestseller, but it would continue to amaze the market and be self sustainable.

 

And nothing compares to WWI dogfighting. It is as gritty as it can be and it is a much more rich and detailed art IMHO. I miss it dearly. I hope they make an ROF 2 with the same quality of the original one and carefully researched flight models.

Edited August 15, 2017 by SeaW0lf

[BraveSirRobin]

lol

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Great game which captured magic of early era aeroplanes, it should not be abandoned ware. We can join Black September community event!

[Brano]

It was a great game back in 2009,when old sturm was dying out and people like me were searching for smtg new.But since then its fresh spirit faded out and it is not interesting for me anymore.I didnt play it for years and I really doubt DX11 or VR (not gonna buy it anytime soon,or ever) would bring me back. I prefer to have Pacific with carrier operations,as this is now for me smtg new and fresh to look for in near future....and Korea. Swan song for peak performing prop aircrafts and Rise of Jet Flight 

[Trooper117]

Got everything from the RoF stable, loved it to death at the time... also went down the same road with WoFF, got everything they put out (and continue to do so)...

I would love for RoF2 to appear at some stage, but as others have said, not at the expense or a halt on BoS production.

 

We know the team is small, we know they don't have the where with all to produce anything connected with RoF, so on that basis I would have to say no to a new RoF at this time.

[Feathered_IV]

I got everything too, but the left-turn/half-roll AI eventually became so repetitive that I couldn't keep going with it.  Would happily pay AAA prices for an updated version though. 

[SCG_Hobo]

Just a thought. What about early/pre WWII 1936-1941 in Il2 instead of ROF 2? 
 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Just a thought. What about early/pre WWII 1936-1941 in Il2 instead of ROF 2? 

 

 

Sadly, prewar/early war conflicts like the Spanish Civil War and the Invasion of Poland don't get any fan service and likely never will.

I got everything too, but the left-turn/half-roll AI eventually became so repetitive that I couldn't keep going with it.  Would happily pay AAA prices for an updated version though. 

 

I wouldn't repurchase the entire catalogue just for a "ROF2" - poor quality stuff like that AI behavior were never improved upon and simply updating the client for improved graphics, VR, optimization, etc. doesn't change any of the bad parts that physically detract from the gameplay.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Sadly, prewar/early war conflicts like the Spanish Civil War and the Invasion of Poland don't get any fan service and likely never will.

A sad statement, but it's the truth. In the old Il-2 a Russian server had a few Spanish Civil War and Winter War scenarios in the rotation but people always voted to move onto the next map. Those scenarios were so awesome when the crowd didn't ruin it, it was modern aviation's awkward teenage phase where designers knew what they wanted to do but lacked the technology to get it done well.

[Brano]

Chalchyn-gol map was fun with Tchaikas and Ishaks against Nates and Claudes 

EDIT:

Oh,I almost forgot....TB-3 sky cruiser, fending off those Nates and Claudes  

Edited August 16, 2017 by Brano

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

In one of the recent patches they introduced the mighty SB as well. It might have been dead meat by 1941 but in 1939 scenarios it still feels like a Cadillac. What a machine!

[Wolferl_1791]

Just a thought. What about early/pre WWII 1936-1941 in Il2 instead of ROF 2? 

 

 

Lovely planes indeed, but I don't see that happening very soon, in this or other sims (War Thunder excluding). The whole point of tinkering with RoF is that they already have all the research and flight models done for all the required planes. Any new planes require a lot of extra work, and they need to sell well. Hence why we get the Spitfire and the Duck as premium this time around. 

 

Now, the Pacific is a strange choice from this point of view. They need to make whole new planes and game mechanics. A huge effort from their part, but they hope it should sell better than say the IAR 80 or the i15, even though most of us would say we want those as well. And I guess the extra difficulty of flying over water for long times, and landing on a carrier is balanced by the fact that we will get some variety out of the game. Plus, it might not divide the community too much. 

 

On the other hand, slowly releasing content for a RoF 2 within the IL-2 BoS medium, would probably be a nice cash flow for them, to help support the Pacific. We're not in 2008 anymore. RoF and IL-2 have gathered a bit of pedigree and exposure, Battlefield 1 has introduced the WW1 planes to a whole lot of players, VR is rising and RoF would be perfect for it. And sitting within the IL-2 environment, would make it "baby's first IL-2", a chance for newcomers to flight sims to fly these simple planes and learn the ropes (plus the faster dogfights, hehe).

 

 

I wouldn't repurchase the entire catalogue just for a "ROF2" - poor quality stuff like that AI behavior were never improved upon and simply updating the client for improved graphics, VR, optimization, etc. doesn't change any of the bad parts that physically detract from the gameplay.

 

 

True. But that is true for IL-2 as well. There are some parts where more work is needed. Thank god we get the new career mode, hopefully that will focus some work on the AI and comms. And any Pacific DLC will benefit from a more solid base. I guess patience is the key. That and our wallets

[SeaW0lf]

The whole point of tinkering with RoF is that they already have all the research and flight models done for all the required planes.

 

Only if you are not talking about a simulator. One of the main reasons ROF died was the flak they got because of several wrong or ill researched flight models. On this day and age it is not enough to just release any FM and not think about it. For it to work they need to rethink some of the work or the mistakes they did and redo several FMs. ROF 1 could be a good experience on this regard. Or else ROF 2 would never take off. Unless they market it as an arcadish / war thunder sort of thing? I am not sure. Red Baron tried to come back this way and was not well received. The last message in their forum is from 2015, so I think it never came out of the paper.

[Wolferl_1791]

Only if you are not talking about a simulator. One of the main reasons ROF died was the flak they got because of several wrong or ill researched flight models. On this day and age it is not enough to just release any FM and not think about it. For it to work they need to rethink some of the work or the mistakes they did and redo several FMs. ROF 1 could be a good experience on this regard. Or else ROF 2 would never take off. Unless they market it as an arcadish / war thunder sort of thing? I am not sure. Red Baron tried to come back this way and was not well received. The last message in their forum is from 2015, so I think it never came out of the paper.

 

Of course, anything but a proper sim just wouldn't do... And the experience of this team with RoF (good and bad) is what makes them the best suited to make the next WW1 sim, you nailed it there.

 

But, as a personal opinion, I think it's difficult to ask for FM perfection on such old planes. I doubt that we have modern analysis of what they were capable of doing. I'd focus on their fragility, the materials being used, the primitive engines and the brutality of flying in an open cockpit. IL-2 provides nice feedback that you are flying a "real" plane, just from subtle damage details and engine operation. But you do have a lot of instruments and cockpit details to help you "feel" the plane. The old birds didn't have such instruments so a sim will have to rely on different cues. RoF did well in these, but I'd like to see even more from a future WW1 sim. If it nails that feeling, and if the plane I use has a purpose, a character, a method of flying it, a prey and a nemesis, then I don't care if it has the name and 3D model of the Camel, or the Triplane, or the Strutter (without gunner, hehe). But again, that's just my own personal felling about it.

Edited August 16, 2017 by karamazovnew

[SYN_Haashashin]

Guys,

 

Jason was clear about this. No RoF 2 for now, full resources are used for Il2 franchise. Nothing to discuss untill that changes, so I´m locking this poll. 

 

 

One of the main reasons ROF died was the flak they got because of several wrong or ill researched flight models.

First, as far as I know its not dead, people still use it. Same as before, maybe not but still. And about that attack to the devs...I dont know what FM lil researched you are speaking about. This is plain ans simply wrong. If you are speaking about the latest FM revision..well, thanks that to different communitty members (not devs) that gave flak to the team untill that last revision was done.

 

As said, this serve no purpose here, sorry.

 

Haash