Mission Editor and QMB

[CanadaOne]

Is it possible that during the evolution of BOX we will see a Mission Editor either in the sim itself and/or more user friendly? That it is both outside of the sim and less-than user friendly does little to aid in the fun and replayability of the sim from the "player created content" point of view. Homemade missions are the heart of the SP experience.

 

An IL2-46 style builder would be the cat's whiskers.

 

As to the QMB, will we see that evolve as well? It tends to be... anemic. Uninhabited airfields, small vehicle convoys, a few tanks over here, maybe a few more over there. More target choices would be very nice. Defended bridges, airfields with planes taking off and some good static targets, and maybe industrial targets with some AAA. Large columns with a dozens of vehicles. IL2-46 has some maps in the QMB where you are thrown right into the middle of a serious scrap. Ten-seconds after the air start, all the flak in the world opens up on you and you are diving both for your life and to find ground targets. Front lines are marked in the QMB maps and once you are on the other there is all kinds of action to keep you busy. It tends to be much more of a living world as opposed to the somewhat lifeless BOX QMB maps and scenarios.

 

QMB scenarios like that would be very nice to have.

 

That said, the rest of the sim is just excellent!

[Gambit21]

With "user friendly" comes less powerful.

Yes it takes a minute to get a handle on the editor, and this means doing more than opening it up, saying "Ugh! that looks too complicated compared to he old one!" shutting it down and then posting about how we

need the old editor back. Something I was guilty of a few years ago with RoF. I've seen a few more complain about it and if they'd started messing with it back then, they'd have mastered it long ago.

 

After actually dedicating some time to learning, I realized how powerful it is, and I can do things with it that I could only dream of with the old editor.

 

So no I don't wish for the old editor back. There is AI behavior that needs to be tweaked still that will make building missions easier, and when the editor becomes unstable due to an update it makes

me want to throttle someone and causes me much wasted time...but for the mos part once you get a handle on a few basic things, and how the editor 'thinks' you're off and running.

[CanadaOne]

I hear ya, and you make good points, but...

 

User friendly does not have to mean less powerful. Complicated missions should be complicated to build, that makes sense. But easy to use and fun mission editors have been around for years, little reason that the premiere WWII flightsim today has an ME that is exponentially harder/less fun to use than the sim it evolved from that was designed 16 years ago.

 

Or...

 

How about QMB maps that are more alive. The ground game of the QMB maps in BOX is weak tea at best. To say it's minimalistic is being polite. If the ME is to remain an out-of-the-game designers tool, then a QMB with some meat to it would be a lovely thing indeed.

[Gambit21]

My experience with software (3D programs including Modo, Zbrush etc) is exactly that...the more powerful it is, the more complicated it is, thus less "user friendly", meaning it's difficult to just boot it up and start producing things without

going through that "valley of pain" learning curve. I'm doing so again as we speak, learning Blender.

 

I'll admit, in a perfect world much of the functionality of the editor could be "under the hood", where if a user needed that extra capability, it could be accessed via an "advanced" drop-down menu.

A good example of this would be making aircraft land or take off. As it stands, I have to link a "command land" to the aircraft  and tell the editor what is activating that land or take off command.

 

Sure, it would be nice if by default it was already linked, and changing the functionality to something more advanced (like linking the take off to a player entering a certain zone) is an option that I access only if needed...but simple fact is that it doesn't 

work this way, nor will it ever likely. Thus, you're forced to jump into the deep end and grasp the logic...which honestly isn't that big of a deal. Also, as soon as you have a functioning, basic group that does a certain thing, like a group of aircraft

taking off...you don't ever have to re-create it from scratch again. So in reality you're mostly placing and adjusting groups that you've created before, or that you lifted from someone else.

 

You couldn't cut and paste in the old editor which was a GIANT F'ing pain in the arse.

 

So it's not as bad as some make it seem...it just takes a modicum of dedication for a few weeks....then you're over the hump.

Some have been complaining about the editor for so long, they could have learned it 5 times over. I have the T-shirt from that group.

 

So if you want to do it, do it. There's plenty of help...I will help, along with others in the editor forum.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Gambit21

[CanadaOne]

I agree with a good deal of what you are saying, but I can't get past the basic premise that in all truth this is a game. It's a video game. And there is, I think, a reasonable expectation of ease of accessibility to certain functions, the Mission Editor being one of them. Good, interesting, easy to use Mission Editors go back many years. I've been building missions as far back as Jane's WWII Fighters, we're talking about 20 years. I find it curious - and I'm being polite here - that 20 years later, a new sim includes an ME designed in such a Rube Goldberg fashion that it causes experienced flightsimers to just say "Ahhh, **** it!" and not use it. If that is the case, and it was with RoF and still is here it seems, the fault lies not with the player.

 

Again, this could be overlooked if the QMB had some meat to it, but it is a tofu burger on a gluten free bun in its present form. Hell, if they make a "QMB Pro" and charge $10 for it, I'd be delighted to pay. 

 

All that aside, I appreciate your offer of help.

[ShamrockOneFive]

A slightly less intimidating mission editor would be a dream come true. I was pretty heavily invested in the old IL-2 mission builder but the new one has had a learning curve I haven't been able to work through just yet. Maybe the next time I try it out I'll be able to get it to do some basic things and build from there.

 

It's a tough one for sure!

[dburne]

I would love to see a revamped Mission Editor to make it a little more user ( GUI ) friendly in some respects.

While obviously the included mission editor is very powerful for what it can do, it also at least appears to have a very serious learning curve and maybe beyond the scope of most players. But they obviously do not have the time and resources to do anything with this , especially with all they have on their plate.

 

I would love to delve into it and learn it, but I myself am not disciplined enough to devote all the necessary time into it to do so. So I rely on the talents of those that do for user made campaigns, and am really looking forward to the upcoming career mode. I also plan to dig into PWCG here as soon as I finish the stock Stalingrad campaign.

Edited April 24, 2017 by dburne

[CanadaOne]

A slightly less intimidating mission editor would be a dream come true. I was pretty heavily invested in the old IL-2 mission builder but the new one has had a learning curve I haven't been able to work through just yet. Maybe the next time I try it out I'll be able to get it to do some basic things and build from there.

 

It's a tough one for sure!

 

I think the ME thought process in this sim goes one of two ways: a mistaken belief that people would want to use it as it is, or simply that they didn't care if people used it at all.

 

Given the feedback about the ME in RoF, and that this ME seems to be identical, I think the reasoning is the latter. And that is something I don't understand.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I think the existing ME should be left alone but the QMB should be expanded to incorporate more senarios.

[Habu]

I would love to see a revamped Mission Editor to make it a little more user ( GUI ) friendly in some respects.

While obviously the included mission editor is very powerful for what it can do, it also at least appears to have a very serious learning curve and maybe beyond the scope of most players. But they obviously do not have the time and resources to do anything with this , especially with all they have on their plate.

 

I would love to delve into it and learn it, but I myself am not disciplined enough to devote all the necessary time into it to do so. So I rely on the talents of those that do for user made campaigns, and am really looking forward to the upcoming career mode. I also plan to dig into PWCG here as soon as I finish the stock Stalingrad campaign.

There are some youtube video and many documentation about that editor. So if you really want to use it, do it.

 

The base of the editor is simple, after it's your logic. And as every mission builder, you have to learn the basis. So do a basic mission to understand, and after you can do more complicated mission.

 

For the editor, you have to understand :

- Entity

- Add Object

- Add Target

 

Then after, it's some question you have to ask yourself to understand what to do. For exemple with a Waypoint.

 

Question : - Which plane has to go through that waypoint ?

Answer : I have to link the waypoint to the plane : Add Object from the waypoint to the plane.

 

Question : When the plane fly over the waypoint 01, where does it fly ?

Answer : I have to link the Waypoint 01 to the Waypoint 02 or a land command, attck command : Add target from WP 01 to WP 02 or command Land, command Attack, ...

 

That's all, if you understand these points, you have the basis of the editor.

 

Then you have to learn how to work with group as soon as possible. Group is very helpfull to debug, and to gain time when you do a new mission, because you can import them, or share them.

 

When i teach the editor for people who never work with it, it take me between 2 and 4 hours to teach the basis. Here is a video in french of the basis i teach to simpel.

 

But every editor ask personal work to understand it, and nothing can change that fact.

[Jade_Monkey]

It can look intimidating but as soon as you learn a handful of basic concepts you can ramp up pretty fast.

 

Learning how to spawn, create airfields, waypoints, and triggers. You can build millions of missions that way.

 

On the other hand i still havent figured out how to orient an object in the dcs editor.

[Habu]

 

 

It can look intimidating but as soon as you learn a handful of basic concepts you can ramp up pretty fast.

 

Yep, as i said, the Bos/Rof mission editor is like Photoshop. When you open it, it seems hard, but as soon you have the basis, you never go back to paint.

[CanadaOne]

I understand that the Mission Editor might be powerful and flexible and capable of leaping tall buildings in a single click... but it's outside the sim and seems to be far more of a developers tool than an accessible and interactive part of the sim that players can jump in and out of during a fun night of flying.

 

To go back to the original point of all this - if the Mission Editor is going to remain an out of the sim developers tool and something most have to slog through, and the QMB is going to remain weak and lifeless, it really cuts into the SP experience.

 

Enhanced scenarios on existing maps in the QMB would be great. Populated airfields(!), some serious convoy action, a bridge to drop, killer flak, a defended industrial target that makes a satisfying "Boom!" when you hit it. Any or all of that would really be a step up.

[TP_Silk]

The mission editor as it stands is a great piece of software for those of us that like really getting to grips with the ins and outs of a mission and building scenarios and maps for multiple purposes.

 

Our squadron has a team of 5 or so players that take it in turn to produce historical-based missions using this tool and the results are almost universally enjoyable (except when I get hold of it and place murderous flak batteries or exceptionally low cloud over high terrain hehehe).

 

The mission editor allows us to control exact aspects of every mission from when/where to encounter friends/enemies to how they behave when encountered. I can't imagine being able to achieve this with any lesser tool. I also can't imagine servers like Random Expert existing without it. The amount of work that goes into making that one of the most enjoyable servers available to the general public is astounding.

 

I fully understand that some folks don't want to invest the time in getting to know the mission editor as it is, but I can assure you all that it is ultimately a very rewarding thing to do.