why not Africa?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Going to Pacific is like yet another Star wars movie ,same old story just save decision to make money out of fans but sadly it bring nothing to genre.

[Quax]

If the game is not closed down after BoK due to insufficient sales, we all can be happy. If I remember it right, the customer base have to double to avoid this sad end to the series. Maybe a thread "How to advertise this sim among VR and civil flightsim customers would have more effect on the next BoX content.  

Sorry for Off topic post 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Quax

[9./JG27DavidRed]

If the game is not closed down after BoK due to insufficient sales, we all can be happy. If I remember it right, the customer base have to double to avoid this sad end to the series. Maybe a thread "How to advertise this sim among VR and civil flightsim customers would have more effect on the next BoX content.  

Sorry for Off topic post 

thats not off topic at all...and if the bold part is correct, then doing Kuban was their worst and last decision i think, as i seriously doubt they can attract double the playerbase with the same old thing, with the only difference being mountains and the black sea.

having said that, while of course it would be awesome to get people from the civil flight sim market on board, i do think that there would be enough ww2 combat flight sim fans out there...its just their previous and current decisions that keep so many of them off this game.

Edited May 15, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[216th_Jordan]

Kuban is definitely not the 'same old thing'. It offers the most variety of all eastern front theaters with mountains and sea (as you said), sea shipping, lend lease aircraft and the Hs-129. Together with the new campaign and technology advancements that are coming it is the perfect development ground for 'something else', namely pacific.

 

The people that are flying german aircraft only are in this game already and I expect quite some american and japanese pilots to enter for the next expansion.

 

And Kuban, by the way, actually sells better already than BoM.

Edited May 15, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[9./JG27DavidRed]

Kuban is definitely not the 'same old thing'. It offers the most variety of all eastern front theaters with mountains and sea (as you said), sea shipping, lend lease aircraft and the Hs-129. Together with the new campaign and technology advancements that are coming it is the perfect development ground for 'something else', namely pacific.

 

The people that are flying german aircraft only are in this game already and I expect quite some american and japanese pilots to enter for the next expansion.

 

And Kuban, by the way, actually sells better already than BoM.

for many it is. its still russian front, the same old thing.

selling better than BOM is probably not hard, with a spitfire in BOK.of course it will sell better then BOM, which really had little to offer...the question is good enough? will we get double the playerbase? i doubt it.

Edited May 15, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[Dutchvdm]

for many it is. its still russian front, the same old thing.

selling better than BOM is probably not hard, with a spitfire in BOK.of course it will sell better then BOM, which really had little to offer...the question is good enough? will we get double the playerbase? i doubt it.

 

The think the lower sales of BOM also has something to do with the fact that a lot of folks didn't had the confidence in the project yet. After BOM there where some real improvements to the engine and with Kuban there were even more additions to that. I just can't imagine why people are so extremely hung up on choice of theater..... Yes there are probably some odd choices that would not interest a large crowd (Spain, China) but on the whole all theaters have there certain appeal. Looking forward to the pacific, but would not mind Africa either...

 

Grt M 

[sinned]

for many it is. its still russian front, the same old thing.

selling better than BOM is probably not hard, with a spitfire in BOK.of course it will sell better then BOM, which really had little to offer...the question is good enough? will we get double the playerbase? i doubt it.

Selling better than BOM is probably not hard??? To this much demanding community?

 

Selling a/c to eskimos will be easier.

 

If you think you have such an acute business model, why dont you two go outside, convince and gather up investors with a gurantee of USD 100MM expenditure over 2 years to develop Afrika thatre, and send Jason a pm. Maybe we can talk Afrika.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

We need numbers.... Last time great numbers had old il2, but where are players from previous Il2s ? Disappointed because Rise of flight and this new il2 lack of hiperloby and dynamic fronts glued by excellent coop mode. New scenarios won't change that. And now that is not enough if happened, there need to be something new refreshing but ergonomic and easy to use to change that or we will be always under numbered​.

[sinned]

Agreed on the easy to connect and use multiplayer, i think it was mentioned a new gui will be developed.

[Grancesc]

... The decision to go Pacific is going to consign this sim to be a niche within a niche, while ceding the more popular theatres to CLOD.

Seems nonsensical.

 

I fully share this opinion.

[FTC_Etherlight]

I just don't get where the notion of the Pacific being an unpopular theatre right now is coming from. Almost everybody I talk to is absolutely giddy for that, since, as much as we all like the Eastern Front and as much as it has to offer in terms of the war in the air, we have had quite a bit of it by now and the pacific is just totally different and will provide a completely fresh set of planes, a completely fresh set of possible mission designs.

 

I get it, some people don't like it, tough shit, but I don't think there is any serious indication of it being a strategical misstake at this point. I for one will keep looking forward to it very much. I mean...No Russian aircraft and no 109? That will basically be a revolution and thank god for that.

Edited May 15, 2017 by JG4_Etherlight

[Gambit21]

I just don't get where the notion of the Pacific being an unpopular theatre right now is coming from. Almost everybody I talk to is absolutely giddy for that, since, as much as we all like the Eastern Front and as much as it has to offer in terms of the war in the air, we have had quite a bit of it by now and the pacific is just totally different and will provide a completely fresh set of planes, a completely fresh set of possible mission designs.

 

I get it, some people don't like it, tough shit, but I don't think there is any serious indication of it being a strategical misstake at this point. I for one will keep looking forward to it very much. I mean...No Russian aircraft and no 109? That will basically be a revolution and thank god for that.

 

I could type a tome on where this inane behavior that we're witnessing is coming from...I'll keep it short.

We have some expressions for what we see here, I'll withhold since typing such things just adds to the problem.

 

I should say that I respect anyone who says something to the effect of "I would have preferred Africa, and here's why" etc...nothing wrong with that and everyone here has the right to their opinion

and to like what the like. I can completely understand the desire to go to Africa, or to be disappointed that we're not...that's not the issue.

 

The problem as ever, is when you get into juvenile "I didn't get what I want, therefore I'm going to bring everyone down" behavior and you can see how toxic the posts get.

Going so far as to claim that an entirely disparate plane set "brings nothing to the genre" (not that surprising considering the source, but inane nonetheless)

or that everyone here supporting or looking forward to the Pacific are "sycophants"

 

Being out of touch with just how popular the PTO is...that's one thing and completely forgivable.

Having preferred Africa or being disappointed that the announcement revealed otherwise.... completely understandable.

The behavior surrounding both by some less so on both counts. Juvenile at best, toxic at worst.

[Ribbon]

As i see some ppl don't like PTO cos there is no 109's and 190's and they fly only those planes so africa theatre is only solution for them and everything else is a doom for il2 franchise.

Maybe devs should rename sim in "bf109:messerschmitt"!

Jss ppl don't be selfish, like gambit said above enjoy sim cos of it's variety of planes and maps.

I fly bombers and fighters on both sides and enjoy it's variety and different playstlye, BoK gives that variety but PTO will give even more with carriers and torpedos.

After PTO western front could be covered.

I am a little tired of russian front even i would love to try yak-3 and african front too. And africa theatre will be developed by teamfusion so everything will be covered.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

Selling better than BOM is probably not hard??? To this much demanding community?

 

Selling a/c to eskimos will be easier.

 

If you think you have such an acute business model, why dont you two go outside, convince and gather up investors with a gurantee of USD 100MM expenditure over 2 years to develop Afrika thatre, and send Jason a pm. Maybe we can talk Afrika.

yes, given that before we had already BOS, and now BOK with probably the most famous ww2 aircraft, the spitfire, yeah im not at all surprised that BOK will sell better than BOM easly...this will not be hard with that plane...which just supports my argument and the view of many others, western front and aircraft are just more popular...and it doesnt matter how demanding the community is at all, as its still the same community. even most lemmings would prefer a spit over an I16.

 

selling ac to eskimos will be easier? ähm, yeah, what a nonsense.you have anything to add to the discussion or you just want to stir things up?

 

and no, i am not the one creating flight sims, and it never will be my intention. im a customer, and as such i share my opinion. now if you cant cope with that, its you who can go somewhere else, cause as long as this sim exists, i will tell my view and opinions about it, whether good or bad, whether you like it or not...

 

its really interesting how people start attacks only because of a theater being mentioned or requested in a thread, as if these requests would take something away from you...

Edited May 15, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[Ribbon]

About that after BoK devs won't have enough funds to procceed on PTO;

they will cover it with PTO preorders itself i'm sure.

Don't take this as an insult but Americans alone will make it profitable cos they mostly tend to spend money on things that are related to their history and culture.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

oh and other nationalities dont tend to do that?only americans? oh and werent the americans involved in the ETO as well, coupled with so far untouched nationalities i.e. Great Britain, which has a strong simming community as well?

 

if some guys would have actually read what i was stating in this thread, then they would know by now that i am not against the PTO.

but instead they read "Africa" and immediately feel to need to cry "109 is boring","Africa is boring", "everything is doomed if they make another theater with 109", "go play CLOD", "go create your own simulation", "you are wrong i am right" bs.

Edited May 15, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[Ribbon]

yeah, if some guys would have actually read what i was stating in this thread, then they would know by now that i am not against the PTO.

but instead they read "Africa" and immediately feel to need to cry "109 is boring","Africa is boring", "everything is doomed if they make another theater with 109", "go play CLOD", "go create your own simulation", "you are wrong i am right" bs.

Maybe not you but some others did!

And i don't say Africa and 109's are boring. I would preorder it right now if possible same as PTO and western front.

Even TF is going for Africa i would love to see it in this il2 franchise and buy it. Devs decided to go on PTO and i'm happy, i hope some day at least African desert map, channel map or mediterranean theatre will come on turn.

oh and other nationalities dont tend to do that?only americans? oh and werent the americans involved in the ETO as well, coupled with so far untouched nationalities i.e. Great Britain, which has a strong simming community as well?

 

 

I didn't say that, i said them alone would possibly fund it enough.

I'm no American or ever been in America and i'm looking forward to PTO.

[Jade_Monkey]

All major theaters have been done before. The PTO is no more rehash than the eastern front.

 

I would actually love to see PTO in this engine. Aircraft carrier landing in VR

 

Africa would be a nice community made map, since we will already have nost planes. I know that sounds easier said than done.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Can we all just enjoy what we have and what we will have ? We will have more of greater variety and fidelity. I see no reason to complain.

[Gambit21]

Also nobody says 109's are boring - just that many of us are getting bored WITH them and time to move on to something different.

 

The good news - even when PTO gets here, you still have access to your 109.

 

I hope work on Eastern Front maps continue.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Gambit21

[9./JG27DavidRed]

lol, yeah, more eastern fronts makes totally sense. 

Once in you're in a theater, it makes sense from several perspectives to stay there for a minute rather than jump around - this includes from a productivity standpoint.

3 Eastern Front releases made sense...this is a Russian development team after all...you can hardly begrudge them this choice.

4 Would have been a death stroke, Africa with more 109's would have been somewhat better, but still more of the same in too many regards for many players to yield the infusion of revenue that the team needs.

 

Once we're in the Pacific, then 3 releases makes sense there too in order to flesh things out a bit, as there is much ground to cover.

It won't make much sense to spend the resources developing the carrier tech and then leave to somewhere else. 

 

After that, then my hope is a tactical, 9th Air Force Channel/Normandy release - that seems to be the most bang for the buck after the PTO.

 

Although if it were up to me, we'd stay in the PTO for another 5 releases. 

 

Also nobody says 109's are boring - just that many of us are getting bored WITH them and time to move on to something different.

The good news - even when PTO gets here, you still have access to your 109.

I hope work on Eastern Front maps continue.

so what is it now?

Edited May 15, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[TP_Silk]

Everyone keeps mentioning the 109s in connection with the potential Africa map. What about the British and Commonwealth aircraft? What about the Italian aircraft? There is absolutely no need at all to include additional 109s for an Africa campaign, we could make do with the ones we already have. What many of us wanted was particularly the Allied aircraft there. Hurricanes, a better P40, maybe Gladiators for Malta... To be very honest I  very much doubt that anyone's reason for wanting the Africa map was anything at all to do with 109s and 190s so to keep throwing that one up is just ridiculous.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

^^this

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Everyone keeps mentioning the 109s in connection with the potential Africa map. What about the British and Commonwealth aircraft? What about the Italian aircraft? There is absolutely no need at all to include additional 109s for an Africa campaign, we could make do with the ones we already have. What many of us wanted was particularly the Allied aircraft there. Hurricanes, a better P40, maybe Gladiators for Malta... To be very honest I  very much doubt that anyone's reason for wanting the Africa map was anything at all to do with 109s and 190s so to keep throwing that one up is just ridiculous.

 

Actually, I'd like Trop. versions of the 109s and 190s we already have. With the existing models, it would be as easy as adding Trop. filter mods to the mods list.

 

Additional Italian aircraft to fill the gaps would be welcomed.

 

You can't have one side without the other - to draw any other inference is ridiculous.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[Gambit21]

David - maps, not full releases.

 

 

Everyone keeps mentioning the 109s in connection with the potential Africa map. What about the British and Commonwealth aircraft? What about the Italian aircraft? There is absolutely no need at all to include additional 109s for an Africa campaign, we could make do with the ones we already have. What many of us wanted was particularly the Allied aircraft there. Hurricanes, a better P40, maybe Gladiators for Malta... To be very honest I very much doubt that anyone's reason for wanting the Africa map was anything at all to do with 109s and 190s so to keep throwing that one up is just ridiculous.

Fair enough - good thing Team Fusion will have it covered. Edited May 15, 2017 by Gambit21

[Lusekofte]

 

 

Going to Pacific is like yet another Star wars movie ,same old story just save decision to make money out of fans but sadly it bring nothing to genre.

 

I think tis is the best theatre to bring US and Australian customers, As is it simply got to few users for online on those timezones , and it will bring new people in. It is the most welcome news in other more sceptical forums. Question is how many?

Personally I like to fly Pasific, if time let me 

[TP_Silk]

I guess it very much depends on which portion of the campaign in North Africa they were to focus on as to whether the majority of the Axis forces were German Afrika Korps or Italian. And even later on it is my understanding that the Italians continued to be a part of the axis forces in North Africa. 

David - maps, not full releases.


Fair enough - good thing Team Fusion will have it covered.

 

In a game that I do not own and have no interest in as it is old technology. Please don't patronise me with "go play an old game if you want that content" - it is neither big nor clever.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I think tis is the best theatre to bring US and Australian customers, As is it simply got to few users for online on those timezones , and it will bring new people in. It is the most welcome news in other more sceptical forums. Question is how many?

Personally I like to fly Pasific, if time let me 

 

It really seems like a mixed bag because of the 3 friends I have who own IL-2, none of us particularly care about the Pacific. It would be our last choice, at best.

 

We're all much more interested in the Eastern Front or the early-war/pre-war conflicts.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[Gambit21]

Silk I wasn't patronizing you - you're being way too sensitive buddy.

[Gambit21]

I will admit, as I have at least twice before of being somewhat ignorant about Africa in regards to WWII aviation. This is a big reason why it doesn't interest me.

[TP_Silk]

And a lot of my aversion to CloD is that it had such an awful reputation at the time. No doubt this was in part due to some of the OS issues with awful systems like Windows 8 at the time as well as the well documented problems with the title. I accept that Team Fusion have done a great job and salute 1C/777 for their recent announcement that they will help support it for those that are interested. I am just not one of those.

 

As I've said on a previous occasion - I got my personal fill of wildcats, hellcats, corsairs, etc with MS CFS2 back in the day and I really, really enjoyed doing it. It just seems to me that if we just have the same aircraft set again then all it will be is an updated version of what we had then, hence my lack of interest. Don't get me wrong, I'll probably still buy and fly, but my heart won't be in it quite so much.

 

The Desert War was well under way when the US joined WW2, and apart from Operation Torch and the consequent Tunisian campaign there was not that much US involvement on the ground, but the US Air Force flew B25s and P40Fs in support of air ops there and later on flew strategic bombing raids on Ploesti and the like using Liberators. Later in the Med the US was instrumental in Air Ops on the Italian mainland using a variety of aircraft.

 

I was brought up in the 60s and 70s on a steady diet of war stories both from veterans and in the form of comic books and the Desert War formed a large part of my understanding of what went on during those years. It is not really then any surprise that I would love to see a modern combat flight sim address the one theatre that I haven't experienced in any flight sim and that captured my imagination so vividly.

 

If anyone is interested here are a couple of wikipedia articles on what I have discussed above

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_Campaign

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Air_Force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tidal_Wave

[Gambit21]

@Gambit why don't​ you go to thread " Why I can see just my ass"

exhibit A - ^

[Gambit21]

Silk - I have no experience with CloD - I was hoping that the physics etc were acceptable to the point where further development would make it worth looking into at some point.

 

I have the disk still - but it wouldn't even install correctly (back when released) and I haven't bothered since. I was thinking that I'd give it a whirl eventually though - new developments and all.

 

Still - I get it. I was truly sad when I thought that I wouldn't see another Pacific sim in my lifetime. I imagine that fans of Africa might be feeling much the same. Especially if the CloD version isn't viable to them.

[von-Luck]

Breaking news! Game developer makes a decision about future instalments of their game. Community divided some like it some dont. Seriously some people will like this decision and some wont. Ultimately it doesn't matter as we get to voice our support or lack thereof with 6 page forum discussions and our hard earned money. Doubt anyone is changing their minds here. Carry on ....

 

 

von Luck

[Grancesc]

I will admit, as I have at least twice before of being somewhat ignorant about Africa in regards to WWII aviation. This is a big reason why it doesn't interest me.

That you show a certain ignorance for a very important and history-critical phase of air warfare is your thing but the majority in this forum does not do this (see theatre vote). I also understand that this majority does not like to be silenced by a small group of ignorants.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

That you show a certain ignorance for a very important and history-critical phase of air warfare is your thing but the majority in this forum does not do this (see theatre vote). I also understand that this majority does not like to be silenced by a small group of ignorants.

 

Chill thyself.

[Gambit21]

That you show a certain ignorance for a very important and history-critical phase of air warfare is your thing but the majority in this forum does not do this (see theatre vote). I also understand that this majority does not like to be silenced by a small group of ignorants.

...Straw Man

Nobody ever tried to silence you.

[TP_Silk]

The real pity here is that some folks on both sides have been getting personal with their comments rather than arguing the merits of their case. I'm not pointing fingers or pretending that I'm any better than anyone else, because I'm not. I'm just sad when this type of thing happens. It may well be for the best if I leave this one alone for a bit now.

[Gambit21]

Written communication poses it's challenges Silk.

You're fine - only a few problems here and you're not one of them.

[Feathered_IV]

So, if we got an Africa expansion; we'd be likely to expect a Hurricane, tropicalised Spitfire, Gladiator, Cr.42, Fiat G.50, Br.20, Mc.202, Blenheim and Wellington.  Plus a 109E and F trop, Ju-88, Stuka, He-111 and 110, P-40E, and even a MS.520 and F4F.  We might also want a couple of floatplanes.  Perhaps a Sunderland or He-115....

 

Which is precisely what Cliffs of Dover is doing right now.