why not Africa?

[Danziger]

I don't think Africa would've been a great move since TFS is going there right now. There are other places in the MTO that could've been cool though. The Pacific should be interesting. I'm not sure it will be interesting enough to hold everyone's interest for three development cycles though. Unless maybe they do a couple of carriers and open sea titles and then an Asia mainland title like some flying tigers or something.

[xThrottle_Geek]

yes sure, thats a good thing...and many think like you, others dont...the reasons why people are into ww2 flight sim vary quite much.and although we share the same hobby, the reason why might be a completely different one. IL2 should try to get all of us onboard.

in the end, it doesnt matter at all if you understand it or not, why some people share no interest in particular theaters. its a fact, and thats the only thing that matters for us customers, the devs and the future of this series.

that they started with BOS is understandable, that they did it essentially 3times in a row was a mistake imo. that they now will go to the pacific will be vital. but i think it wouldnt matter where they go now, they just have to leave the eastern front now. anyway, its the pacific, and imo, they should have done it earlier already...but staying again on 1front for too long(3 times in a row), is i think dangerous for the series, if we believe in the devs when they say that they struggle financially.

 

I appreciate that. I'm just stating my bewilderment to generate discussion about what those reasons are. I like to attempt to understand other people's point of view as much as possible. I once heard someone state that the PTO wasn't even a part of WW2. Of course, that person lived somewhere about as far away as you could get from the Pacific. Again, trying to understand that as well. Its totally appropriate in a forum to discuss.

 

 

 

Eh. I don't know why variants of the 109 get so much crap.   Carriers, oceans and the PTO just don't capture me.

 

Awwwww.. sad. One of the best Pacific aces is right from your neck of the woods.  

Edited April 24, 2017 by =CAF=xThrottle_Geek

[9./JG27DavidRed]

I dont give a monkeys about your skills either way! I was asking why you were refering to a sim like DCS as a 'brain fart' and am now only more interested tbh, especially when you apparently possess such inhuman skill and choose to celebrate this fact by making your very own DCS tube videos! A brain fart still dont care to explain?

 

And I am mentioning DCS because you mentioned (pooped on it and ran) it in comparison to other sims, and was interested therefore to understand how anyone could refer to such a simulation in such a ridiculous manenr? Of course at that time I didnt realize what I was dealing with.

 

And I used the word 'dude' which you obviously have a problem with, because I didnt want you to take my post as being aggressive and hoped to keep things friendly.

 

Take it easy dude...

lol, you attack my skill for no reason without even knowing me, and try to make it look friendly with adding the word DUDE at the end of your comment, which was basically nothing but an off topic insult?

and when i give you an answer about my skill you step back and try to twist it, suggesting im celebrating my skills with youtube videos? i think its you who poop and run DUDE.

i mentioned dcs, because its another sim which now touches ww2, which further splits the community. if you had read my post, you would know. and again, it doesnt matter here in this forum why i think its lacking. if its not lacking for you then good. again this is not the dcs forum. thats my last post for you about dcs, as its off topic, and leads to nothing DUDE.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

I appreciate that. I'm just stating my bewilderment to generate discussion about what those reasons are. I like to attempt to understand other people's point of view as much as possible. I once heard someone state that the PTO wasn't even a part of WW2. Of course, that person lived somewhere about as far away as you could get from the Pacific. Again, trying to understand that as well. Its totally appropriate in a forum to discuss.

 

 

 

 

Awwwww.. sad. One of the best Pacific aces is right from your neck of the woods.  

yes, i absolutely agree....discussing, thats why i even started this thread....for me personally, while i like pretty much all planes, i just have more passion for the western ww2 birds. and about the scenarios, well living in the heart of europe, its the history of my country, which makes me more interested in western ww2 scenarios...cause while i do know that PTO was part of ww2, it didnt really affect my country...its just that i have a connection to the western scnearios, while i dont have them at all with the pacific. carrier landings will be nice,...but they will be interesting only the first couple of tries for me personally, and then its going to be business as usual like a ordinary landing on any other airfield. so this will not hold my attention for too long...and well, i said it repeatedly, while i personally dont have much interest in the PTO, i think its good they make it...i just think its not good that they dont seem to have any plans to use the current planeset and put them in a different theater, which could mean yet another great addition to the game, realised relatively fast with relatively little effort.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

I don't think Africa would've been a great move since TFS is going there right now. There are other places in the MTO that could've been cool though. The Pacific should be interesting. I'm not sure it will be interesting enough to hold everyone's interest for three development cycles though. Unless maybe they do a couple of carriers and open sea titles and then an Asia mainland title like some flying tigers or something.

yeah i absolutely agree with this...i only suggested Africa, as i would imagine it would be the easiest thing to realise given we already have most of the aircraft. and the map would probably also be easier to develop than others. furthermore, still hoping that this series might resemble the good old il2 1946 one day, eventually we will need Africa.

Edited April 24, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[TP_Silk]

The first two WWII era flight sims that I ever played were Microsoft's CFS 1 and 2 which, I am sure many of you will remember, dealt with the battle over the channel (and the Battle of Britain in particular) and with the Pacific respectively. Of the two I preferred CFS2 at the time because it had improved graphics and better flight model and the ability to take off from and land on carriers. I also found the single player campaign much better even if I did only play on simplified flight model at the time.

 

I soon moved onto IL2 (the original game) and the Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters expacs, but soon after that I drifted away from flight sims for a long while until picking up again just over a year ago.

 

So, from my point of view, I've been on the Eastern Front multiple times, the Channel Front once, the Pacific twice and never to the Med. I have zero to very little interest in buying and learning and old and somewhat lacking sim just to finally get to an area that holds interest for me and would have absolutely loved it if this great title could have eventually found it's way to the Med Theatre in an official rather than semi-official capacity. That, however, seems very unlikely now and it seems that we are doomed to follow the dollar and take the fight to the Pacific for reasons that have already been hashed over enough. I don't agree with the decision, but I will support it in that I will keep flying this product in the hope that eventually we will see more British aircraft again.

 

I would absolutely love to see the Mosquito in particular and the Tempest and Typhoon. Those, along with the Spitfire and Hurricane, are the aircraft that captured my heart as a nipper and that would still bring a catch to my throat to see flying IRL.

 

 

EDIT - oh, and yes, I'm fully aware that the Mosquito, Tempest and Typhoon would not fit with a Med scenario

Edited April 24, 2017 by TP_Silk

[xThrottle_Geek]

 

 

yes, i absolutely agree....discussing, thats why i even started this thread....for me personally, while i like pretty much all planes, i just have more passion for the western ww2 birds. and about the scenarios, well living in the heart of europe, its the history of my country, which makes me more interested in western ww2 scenarios...cause while i do know that PTO was part of ww2, it didnt really affect my country...its just that i have a connection to the western scnearios, while i dont have them at all with the pacific. carrier landings will be nice,...but they will be interesting only the first couple of tries for me personally, and then its going to be business as usual like a ordinary landing on any other airfield. so this will not hold my attention for too long...and well, i said it repeatedly, while i personally dont have much interest in the PTO, i think its good they make it...i just think its not good that they dont seem to have any plans to use the current planeset and put them in a different theater, which could mean yet another great addition to the game, realised relatively fast with relatively little effort.

 

This is exactly the kind of thing I like to learn from my international brethren. I would, however, like to submit to you that while I can agree that tactically it had little to do with the European theatre it had a SIGNIFICANT impact on the European theatre. As in, the full industrial might of the US at the time could have been focused there instead of being split between two fronts. An entire Carrier task force was diverted to the Pacific from the Atlantic after Pearl Harbor as well as dividing ground forces and supplies. In the same manner, I'm aware that without the Russian front and their amazing sacrifice, Germany might have had a completely different outcome in that theatre of operations if they hadn't divided their attention between two fronts. Germany dividing its attention had a SIGNIFICANT impact on the Western front in that theatre. D-Day would be completely different without the Russians. I think its important to respect that it was all connected.

 

I can appreciate your passion for those birds/battles closest to your home. I'm the same of course. I recognized the quality found here though and decided it was time to learn about the Eastern front. I'm happy to get what we have currently and hope to see some additions closer to my desires in the future just like you.  

[9./JG27DavidRed]

^^thats why i said "it didnt really affect my country"(bad wording i guess)....as im fully aware that indirectly, it had huge influence also on the ETO.

and yes, its the quality of the FMs, which i seriously hope will get even much better with the announced FM patch, that holds me here....i am passionate about the product...i just wish, that one day they also develop a theater im really interested in, and of course rather sooner than later, or worst, not at all...

Edited April 24, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[unreasonable]

@TP_Silk

 

I am much in agreement: except that there were Mosquitoes in the Med - even de Havilland ones   http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_mosquito_mediterranean.html

[Wolf8312]

lol, you attack my skill for no reason without even knowing me, and try to make it look friendly with adding the word DUDE at the end of your comment, which was basically nothing but an off topic insult?

and when i give you an answer about my skill you step back and try to twist it, suggesting im celebrating my skills with youtube videos? i think its you who poop and run DUDE.

i mentioned dcs, because its another sim which now touches ww2, which further splits the community. if you had read my post, you would know. and again, it doesnt matter here in this forum why i think its lacking. if its not lacking for you then good. again this is not the dcs forum. thats my last post for you about dcs, as its off topic, and leads to nothing DUDE.

 

I totally suck at flight sims myself and am not four years old or in the habbit of looking down my nose at people who are not good at flight simming! What i assumed was that somebody who thinks DCS is a brain fart could not have played it properly so I stated as much but asked for clarification as to what you didnt like about it...

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

Awwwww.. sad. One of the best Pacific aces is right from your neck of the woods.  

 

Foss is certainly a legend of a man and I don't discredit his or any other PTO veteran's service - merely not a point of historical interest for me.

[Gambit21]

Eh. I don't know why variants of the 109 get so much crap.

 

Carriers, oceans and the PTO just don't capture me.

 

In my case I have nothing against 109's, in fact it's one of my favorite aircraft.

It's just that after a while...enough already. 

[wtornado]

Now that Team Fusion Simulations that is a company now by the way has full access to all the Cliffs of Dover coding I say they will change the game in ways that will surprise you

just look what they did before without full access.

 

They will make a great North Africa add-on and if it is not too expensive like this game I will buy it.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

In my case I have nothing against 109's, in fact it's one of my favorite aircraft.

It's just that after a while...enough already. 

 

I would relate a little more if it weren't for the fact that the 109 and 190 (and the many variants thereof) are the main production fighters the LW fielded during the war. Not much else to choose from if you want to represent the LW.

 

Nonetheless, I don't wanna completely derail things and I concede that not all tastes correlate. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[SCG_Neun]

I'm excited about TF Med project and the carrier based operations as well.  I'd go for a carrier based unit or a land based Corsair group, Pappy Boyington style.  

[Gambit21]

Oh I get it, that's what you get with Eastern Front...109's and 190's....now way around it.

But that's also a compelling reason to go somewhere else now and explore disparate aircraft for a while.

[wtornado]

I would relate a little more if it weren't for the fact that the 109 and 190 (and the many variants thereof) are the main production fighters the LW fielded during the war. Not much else to choose from if you want to represent the LW.

 

Nonetheless, I don't wanna completely derail things and I concede that not all tastes correlate. 

They have to put in the FW-190's.

 

III./ZG 2, II./JG 2, and III./SKG 10. were too active from November 1942 to May 1943

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

 

They have to put in the FW-190's.

 

III./ZG 2, II./JG 2, and III./SKG 10. were too active from November 1942 to May 1943

 

 

No, no... I'm saying I would prefer every variant of 190 and 109 rather than Zekes and Hellcats.

 

That's just me though and I'm going to "board the ship" either way. 

[wtornado]

I don't know about the Pacific I would not want to fly in a Zero with no parachute or armour and self sealing tanks.

 

It the devs make the planes historical accurate  I will be flying the F4F or F6F 

[Gambit21]

I don't know about the Pacific I would not want to fly in a Zero with no parachute or armour and self sealing tanks.

 

You have to hit me before any of that matters.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

You have to hit me before any of that matters.

 

 

I imagine he'll have numbers on his side most every time, so no problem there.

Edited April 24, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[Gambit21]

I imagine he'll have numbers on his side most every time, so no problem there.

Don't be so sure

[Sokol1]

this thread is not against pacific, but for africa...no reason to "defend" your sushi fighters

 

... Is not about defend "sushi" or "hot dog" fighters but about the scenery and type of operations - e.g carrier battles, unique of PTO theater.

 

Of course is matter of individual preferences, you start arguing that 'Africa' will be better than Kuban or Pacific, but for others Kuban and Pacific is more interesting than Africa.

 

Anyway the decisions are already made, rest be prepared for fly over the nice Kuban landscape, in the same or against DejaVú 109's, like it or not. 

 

In some ways this IL-2 are following the steeps of the original: Eastern Front with Kuban introducing some "Allied" planes (a small scale of FB), then the PACIFIC... latter can came the rest - even some fantasy jets. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Sokol1

[9./JG27DavidRed]

no Sokol, thats not what i've really said...i was responding with "quoting" your basically "your wish is stupid mine is better" post, and replaced plane x with plane y....trying to show that this sort of discussion really leads us nowhere. and if you actually followed the thread and my overall statement you should know by now, that i am not against the pacific...in fact i said already, that i think it would have been better that they would have created the first pacific theater by now, instead of the same thing 3times in a row, the russian front...

ive just listened to the whole ts question and answer session made in december last year, and its apparent, that the devs envision what i hope this series would become at some point, somthing similar to old il2 1946...

BUT at the same time, they already talk about korean aircraft, while not mentioning once the MTO or any other western front scenario i think(except jason is being asked about berlin 1944/1945 where he states that he doesnt like it)...

they only talk about russian front, and pacific for future....and in the very same interview they say, that if as many people  would buy their product as they did with old il2, they could develop everything we ask for...

but this will never happen, if they keep doing the same theaters 2 or 3 or even more times in a row....

they just leave too many potential customers out of the game for too long, and thats not the customers fault, and one cannot expect them to buy every plane twice or three times just for the sake of goodwill, especially if they then dont once mention that they eventually plan to develop theater x, the customer in question actually would be interested in...i think thats really their one big mistake, and they seem to repeat it now....making essentially 1 theater 3times...thats lots of waiting time for people who wait for something different. 

 

i very much appreciate many things and features they plan and want to add in future, and i really hope they succeed, but as much as i want them to succeed, i just cant support a theater i personally share no interest in 3 times in a row, without a definite future plan of creating finally a theater i want...if they would for example say, that after the pacific, they go to the western front, they would probably have me as a customer for the pacific, just to support their future plans, even if i dont fly it a single time...but they dont, instead they talk about the possibilty of doing korean war, and maybe going back to the eastern front once again....

 

my theater is better than yours, will not be the answer...the only answer which will succeed is to have them "all" at some point. and better fast, cause it might be too late at some point. alternating and creating as many different fronts at first, and then after you have touched them all, revisit them, and flesh them more out...

 

basically they are about to finish their third title this year,....imagine instead of having 3russian theaters, to have 1russian front, 1 western front, and now finishing up a pacific front scenario...dont you think, this il2 series would have way more customers by now?

Edited April 24, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[VBF-12_Snake9]

I think 3 years of any theatres is a mistake, and I can't wait for the pacific. Your talking about tying up at least 3 years of time in one plane set. Some theatres offer better variety than others. My opinion two years of a theater is good sense then move on. We must broaden the games appeal for all. I would love to fly all the different types of zekes, but I can really see others opinions on the matter. (Really how many yaks and 109s do I need. Lol ahh One of each please.) I consider it a badge of honor that I DON'T have a BOK tag under my name.

[Gambit21]

 I consider it a badge of honor that I DON'T have a BOK tag under my name.

 

You'd be in the minority in the department.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

I think 3 years of any theatres is a mistake, and I can't wait for the pacific. Your talking about tying up at least 3 years of time in one plane set. Some theatres offer better variety than others. My opinion two years of a theater is good sense then move on. We must broaden the games appeal for all. I would love to fly all the different types of zekes, but I can really see others opinions on the matter. (Really how many yaks and 109s do I need. Lol ahh One of each please.) I consider it a badge of honor that I DON'T have a BOK tag under my name.

 

 

Starting over from scratch and moving to another theatre takes far, far longer and is thus more expensive and a larger risk than using what you already have as a base.  You do understand that there isn't going to be a one-year turn-around for Midway, if it even gets made at all, right?  You've got at least two years to wait from when they start.

Edited April 25, 2017 by 7-GvShAP/Silas

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Im just completely stoked that we still have devs/producers working on WW2 flight sims. We are a niche interest group for a game that really can be boring and very frustrating to get a wee bit of mastery for all but the dedicated enthusiasts. Honestly, If they choose to simulate a battle that happened north of the arctic circle that only involved 2 planes ..... I'm there and I'm supporting it.

 

I have heard the argument that the pacific theatre will bring many fans from the US and probably wider too.... if that's the case, I am very glad the producers are even considering it, we need fresh blood and lots of youngsters to grow the genre.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

at least in the IL2'46 online Events VOW (COOP) and SpitfirevsBf109 ("Dogfight"Server) the PTO Scenarios were the least liked and flown ones IIRC (Long time ago )...

But i personally looking Forward to IL2 Battle of Midway. I just hope they will ad some "phantasie" map with some more Islands (with hills and jungles) to Play around with

Edited April 25, 2017 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[9./JG27DavidRed]

yeah, fantasy maps are ok, but i think there is always the better option of creating a small dogfight map, based on a realstic part of the scenario....no need to invent an island, there are plenty of real ones they could recreate, to have small maps.

btw, i hear in the ts interview, that they do not plan to release a map sdk for the community, but they dont say why...im sure this has been answered, and probably they fear "low" quality maps? and while can partially comprehend that concern, i think past has shown, that 3rd parties and modpacks brought many of the greatest maps to games like il2 1946...channel map comes to my mind...in the long term, im sure there were some really bad maps as well, and some really good ones too...but either of them would be a nice addition to the game, even if its just a small fictional island somewhere in an ocean...anyway it seems this will not happen as they said they dont release a map sdk.

 

 

i wonder what could be done to at least get a small online dogfight map like the old tobruk map in 1946...even such a thing would people like me give something worthwile....i remember although it was one of the smallest maps, i really enjoyed the servers who used this map...such a thing cant be too complicated to realise right?

[Scojo]

Wow. I usually try to predict which threads will explode for fun, and I'm always surprised.

 

CloD is going Africa.

 

IL-2, Pacific.

 

DCS, Normandy.

 

We're literally getting everything people want. I'm not sure what there's left to discuss?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

There are already 2 small maps in BOS, if you ask me why they do not give us access to maps tools is that nobody could try it without devs intervention so it would give them unnecessary overhead work to manage connent, requests and modify game code to allow use it by others.

Edited April 25, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[9./JG27DavidRed]

Wow. I usually try to predict which threads will explode for fun, and I'm always surprised.

 

CloD is going Africa.

 

IL-2, Pacific.

 

DCS, Normandy.

 

We're literally getting everything people want. I'm not sure what there's left to discuss?

clod, not at all interesting for me regardless what map they are doing....FM is just way too bad.

il2, i hope they do more than pacific and russia, as this sim actually would have the potential to keep me interested for years.

dcs, beautiful map without content, no realistic hope of getting more flyables in this century= not interesting either.

 

also, what is it that some people constantly try to push people to other sims? always surprised by that behaviour.

[Scojo]

clod, not at all interesting for me regardless what map they are doing....FM is just way too bad.

il2, i hope they do more than pacific and russia, as this sim actually would have the potential to keep me interested for years.

dcs, beautiful map without content, no realistic hope of getting more flyables in this century= not interesting either.

 

also, what is it that some people constantly try to push people to other sims? always surprised by that behaviour.

 

I'm not pushing, but there's just no way we can hope all of the theatres get into IL-2 any time soon. In the real world, you have to use the cards you're dealt.

 

I get your points. I myself don't fly anything other than IL-2, but I'm just saying I'm surprised people put so much effort in discussing moving IL-2 to those other theatres so much.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Wow. I usually try to predict which threads will explode for fun, and I'm always surprised.

 

CloD is going Africa.

 

IL-2, Pacific.

 

DCS, Normandy.

 

We're literally getting everything people want. I'm not sure what there's left to discuss?

Actually mostly woted for MTO not Pacific ...

[9./JG27DavidRed]

youre really surprised by this?

im sure the people who are here, really love this sim for a certain reason...but this reason can be totally differernt...i love this sim because of the general flight physics...the theaters not so much...although, in the big picture yes, i would definitely want pacific and russian front...but having a front i really am interested in, coupled with these flight physics would be a blast....i dont understand why people dont understand the importance of variety in maps to maybe really reach the goal of becoming  something like a proper il2 1946 just with better graphics and Fms, to really attract a bigger player base, which in the end will give the devs more income, to give us all we want in the end.. and im  not expecting them to release a western front map within the next couple of months or within the next year or something, or even switch pans now and skip pacific and do a western front instead...no....but i really hope, that they will do a western front scenario and even if its only a small online dogfight map as a start, at some point in the future, hopefully before they have created 3pacific theaters in a row...i mean we have the luftwaffe planes already and we have a p40, and we have a spit very soon...to not use them in different theaters would just be so much lost potential...

[Riderocket]

Have you all tried flying a Felixstowe over the channel in Rise of Flight? Maybe tried it at sunrise or sunset? Landing in the water and watching the plane sway in the waves?

 

Its amazing!

 

Better then you probably realize.

 

So the Pacific will be better then you realize, especially when they add the new water technology from rise of flight!

 

It won't be just a huge flat water expanse but an amazing, beautiful ocean with shimmering waves and reflections.

 

Is it just me who is super excited about the ocean alone?

 

I really hope we get a PBY and Aichi E13a and floats for the F4F and A6M!

 

 

Also note you can change how rough the sea is with [sea_state] in mission editor

Edited April 25, 2017 by Riderocket

[9./JG27DavidRed]

rise of flight never caught my interest, as the planes were just too simple, too old, and too slow for my taste...i tried the free demo for a day, but thats it...so no i personally didnt...but ive seen these water landings and takeoffs on youtube videos, and yes, its looking really really good....but there is also ocean around africa for example or in the MED.....yes, the pacific will have some very appealing features and im never the person who says, "dont do pacific", as i know some people are super excited about it...and i know it will attract new players, which is vital for everybody of us....but i am the person, who would be super excited about the MED or Africa....and i dont believe that there is no way of giving people like me at least something to play with...and if its only a tiny online dogfight map for a start.

Edited April 25, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[Danziger]

I wish there were more third party map makers and mods on mode. I imagine a crowd fund could get a good map maker to do a med theater. Then it's just up to Devs to build a ton of collector planes.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

yeah without a map sdk it will be hard to get people make maps...i know one guy is working on odessa...but is there a second person capable of creating a map for il2? for sure most people wouldnt even know where to start especially without a map sdk...i totally understand to not open aircraft development to the community....but when its about maps, i think it would be good to have an sdk for the community.