why not Africa?

[9./JG27DavidRed]

i think the title makes it clear...why don't the developers make an Africa map?

the planeset would be almost done already, and the map would probably not make any difficulty either, considering little vegitation and ocean.

yet i think, it would be a blast to go west in IL2. i personally would be much more interested in a western scenario like Africa or Malta or Sicily than another eastern front theater like Kuban, or Pacific.

yes of course, Kuban is already in the works and thats ok...and im not against Pacific, although i have no interest in it at all...but an Africa map i would buy instantly...

i've read some comments that the devs already explained why they don't go for Africa, yet i cant find the reason here in this forum...anybody has a link for it?or can at least explain why they dont consider it?

did they say that they wont do it at all?

just a question i would like to have an anser on.

[216th_Jordan]

Cliffs of Dover is going there some time in this year. To have two sims working against each other in this department would likely be financial suicide and split the community.

Jason talked about this in the last Teamspeak event (don't know the exact time):

Edited April 23, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[xThrottle_Geek]

So, there is a VERY robust modding community that took CLoD and made it what it is today. Recently, they completed a deal to OFFICIALLY support CLoD moving forward as a partner of 1C/777. Their new name is Team Fusion Simulations and they will be producing Africa content like you describe. So, 1C/777 doesn't want to cover the same material essentially twice at the exact same time. It just wouldnt make sense.

 

Edit: Also, the link you are looking for is Pinned above in this Forum section.  

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26758-1c-game-studios-cooperate-team-fusion-il-2-sturmovik-cliffs/

Edited April 23, 2017 by =CAF=xThrottle_Geek

[9./JG27DavidRed]

thank you Jordan, that ts talk was what i was searching for...

thats an interesting sight of things, though the exact opposite of how i see it tbh...

cause basically, you tell people like me, to go and play and pay for another sim...if thats not suicide, i dont know what is

 

in my view, the community is already split for years now. since the arrival of clod back then...many people remained in old il2 1946, and only a part went over to cliffs of dover.  then dcs came up with the p51, and warthunder arrived...eventually the new il2 series got released. so basically, the community is already split very badly. whether they want it or not, they are working against each other already, although many of us own all of the sims.....

the reason that the community is split though i think is mainly, because none of the new sims, and im not talking about warthunder as i cant consider it really as a sim anyway, are touching all or most battle fronts, while old il2 does, and probably thats why it still has an active playerbase, which otherwise would be ridiculous considering its graphics and now outdated FMs.

clod is just that, the battle of britain, and now it will have africa. dcs is just a brainfart with fancy clickable cockpits and very soon a nice map, and il2 is touching the eastern front...

 

now, while i own all of them, im definitely not going back to clod. the FMs are just too bad after dcs and especially this IL2 here, and in my personal view, they got worse after team fusion started to touch them(im not talking about numbers and whether plane x can reach certain airspeed at this and that altitude, but general flight characteristics and stalls, rudder behaviour, take offs and landings) so while i am very interested in a western front scenario, clod will be a nogo for me. of course thats just my personal opinion about it, but i know many people who share that point of view.

 

i think, to avoid touching the western front will be more dangerous for the future of this series, than not tbh. i personally have now only BOS and BOM, and didnt buy BOK...i already only bought BOM more or less as goodwill and support for the devs as i was hoping that after that they will go west...well now they make BOK, and thats ok as ive said earlier, but for me its just not really interesting. having said that, once they release their announced FM revision patch and also fix the trackir+ffb bug, and implement a more realistic ffb, i will buy BOK to support them further...

Pacific is yet another thing which im even less interested in, and i can only see myself buying it, if they announce another theater im finally interested in, to support them. because i know i will not once start up either a zero, or any american fighter of that period in that area. i will just not fly it so unless they announce some kind of western front scenario, i will have to stay away from that title....thats by no means an attempt to make them reconsider their choice, as in the end, i think its good they make the pacific, in the big picture. but that scenario is just not for me.

 

in the end, i think, the sims out there are heavily in competition with each other, and i dont think they all will survive. not well at least...i think the one sim that steps up and creates content regardless whether sim x or y has something similar will succeed in the end. i think thats why old il2 was and still is so successfull...because of all its content. avoiding to produce content because another sim has similar content is suicide imo.

Edited April 23, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[Ribbon]

What i don't like is they are two separate games, it would be nice that they are merged together like expansions(bom/bos/bok) so we have all in one like in 1946, MP reasons.

Even i know it's not quite possible cos of clickable cockpits and other differencies in game. Just saying!

Pacific theatre will bring my biggest aticipation; landing on carrier and sinking ships with torpedos, even Kuban map will also bring variety and new kind of play style fighting on the deck between mountains and sinking ships as objectives.

[purK]

The Pacific is going to be a blast if they do it right, I can't wait. 

 

Also if you think about it, the Pacific will bring more western players to the game, possibly even making those scenarios you've suggested more likely in the future.

[Sokol1]

Pacific means Carriers, seas, Zekes,   much better than fly again and again Déjavù' Bf 109's just over sand.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

matter of opinion...better in your view, really boring in my view, flying again and again dejavu zekes just over plain sea...but any addition of a new theater is always a good thing...cause obviously there are many who like the pacific.

its just suggesting that doing something like Africa resembles suicide or even a slight threat to the series doesnt make any sense imo. especially as it would mean less work for the devs, as the planeset would be pretty much done already...

this thread is not against pacific, but for africa...no reason to "defend" your sushi fighters

[sinned]

Dev has limited time. No time to waste.

 

Go donate 100k units of bok and ask dev for africa next time.

 

No money, no honey.

[Aap]

flying again and again dejavu zekes just over plain sea...

So you have already been flying Zekes over snowy Russian steppes (or English Channel), so that flying it over an ocean is just a deja vu of the same thing?

[9./JG27DavidRed]

So you have already been flying Zekes over snowy Russian steppes (or English Channel), so that flying it over an ocean is just a deja vu of the same thing?

are you ok?

[Aap]

are you ok?

Yes. You?

[DD_Arthur]

Pacific means Carriers, seas, Zekes,   much better than fly again and again Déjavù' Bf 109's just over sand.

 

+1.   After flying over a white snowscape for eighteen months the idea of a yellow waste land is hardly appealing.

 

I'm really looking forward to the Pacific but I hope, along with quite a few others here, that after that the devs will look long and hard at an invasion of Sicily/Italy.

This will give us a western theatre with carrier action and a comprehensive 'plane set. 

[Gambit21]

Pacific means Carriers, seas, Zekes,   much better than fly again and again Déjavù' Bf 109's just over sand.

This....a thousand times this...^

[Gambit21]

matter of opinion...better in your view, really boring in my view, flying again and again dejavu zekes just over plain sea...but any addition of a new theater is always a good thing...cause obviously there are many who like the pacific.

its just suggesting that doing something like Africa resembles suicide or even a slight threat to the series doesnt make any sense imo. especially as it would mean less work for the devs, as the planeset would be pretty much done already...

this thread is not against pacific, but for africa...no reason to "defend" your sushi fighters

It would have been suicide.

"Hey everyone, give us another $80 to fly more 109's."

 

They did the best thing from a revenue standpoint.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Gambit21

[ShamrockOneFive]

Lots of folks are going to like flying over different theaters. The great thing about this series is that its managed to work its way into different scenarios and different time periods.

 

The decision to do the Kuban battle as a stepping stone was a masterstroke in my mind. Building the ocean tech while offering some interesting lend lease types while also offering up a comprehensive third entry in the East Front series was the best decision.

 

Now were heading to the Pacific for at least two outings. Maybe three. Three would be great! And then North Africa and Western Europe or a return to the East could be on the table.

[HBPencil]

Using the yard stick of the old IL-2 series, I always found that any preconceptions I had about any theater or aircraft went right out the window once I got into the cockpit and was flying; the scenery became irrelevant when in a dog fight, I felt exactly the same flying a Yak over the steppes as I did a Zero over a land-less ocean... in other words, the theater doesn't matter so long as the action is good.

Just a side note on 'boring scenery', it's worth keeping in mind that both the ocean and north Africa aren't all one colour. Parts of north Africa, especially after the rains, can get quite green and there's also some pretty decent topography. Likewise, the ocean could look quite nice in the old game, especially at sunrise and sunset so I don't doubt it'll look even better in this game.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

i basically agree with the 2 last posts....just i think, that making 2 or even 3 pacific theaters in a row wouldnt be a masterstroke...just like i think it might be have not been the best decision to create 3russian fronts in a row....of course, in the end, this will give us close to "complete" scenarios where you really have content...on the other hand, considering that they are now creating their 3rd title, they could have made 1 eastern, 1 western and the pacific scenario by now, and then revisit each to flesh them out more and give us more content with additional scenarios for each front...i think that way they could have attracted more people by now...and yes, the pace in which they create the scenarios is really impressive i have to admit...still now looking at a possible future of having now this year BOK, and then at least another 3years of developing the pacific(if they really make 3theaters), it would mean that people who prefer a western front scenario, would have to wait at least another 4 years....

Edited April 23, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[Gambit21]

Once in you're in a theater, it makes sense from several perspectives to stay there for a minute rather than jump around - this includes from a productivity standpoint.

3 Eastern Front releases made sense...this is a Russian development team after all...you can hardly begrudge them this choice.

4 Would have been a death stroke, Africa with more 109's would have been somewhat better, but still more of the same in too many regards for many players to yield the infusion of revenue that the team needs.

 

Once we're in the Pacific, then 3 releases makes sense there too in order to flesh things out a bit, as there is much ground to cover.

It won't make much sense to spend the resources developing the carrier tech and then leave to somewhere else. 

 

After that, then my hope is a tactical, 9th Air Force Channel/Normandy release - that seems to be the most bang for the buck after the PTO.

 

Although if it were up to me, we'd stay in the PTO for another 5 releases. 

[9./JG27DavidRed]

invasion of sicily had carriers as well...so no need to leave anything...and if you read my post, i said REVISITING each front to flesh them more out. and i dont see your argument about productivity....for each theater they create a new map, new aircraft, and if needed, new tech to support new features...this doesnt have anything to do though with whether they make 3 or 10 theaters in a row of the same front, or creating different fronts...its not like any tech they build cannot be used somehwere else.

 

Africa had more than 109s...especially if you consider the western european market like the UK, im sure many of them would be interested to fly a couple of spits without a red star, and some hurricanes and other interesting british aircraft to fight over the mediterrean sea and a  sunny african map...and yeah, for the german side, pretty much everything is done already considering the planes...so actually it would be less developement effort with still gaining new customers....

 

oh and it makes sense to have 3 russian theaters only because the devs are from russia? whats that kind of a logic, if they want to be successfull in an international market?...and where did i begrudge them their choice?

Edited April 24, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[Gambit21]

We're not going to Africa...nuff said.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

well if YOU, Mr. Pacific Northwest, say so

Edited April 24, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[OrLoK]

I also hope that il2 BoX will be able to expand vastly, but its a niche game.

 

Their budget is limited.

 

I wish the CloD guys the best of luck but in an ideal world it would all be combined.

 

Unfortunately, its not an ideal world.

 

If we get past Kuban, ill be happy.

 

AFAIK they're operating on tight margins.

 

The more we can promote the game the better chance we will get our preferred theatres/planes.

 

Not as many as youd think are aware of BoX.

 

Get the word out.

 

Not just of BoX but all the user campaigns or external apps like PWCG.

 

No matter our or the devs passion for the project its all about cold hard cash at the end of the day.

 

BoX hasnt gone viral,it should do.

 

Even amongst the sim community.

 

There's a great platform here.

 

Imho it needs to reach a larger audience.

 

Let folk know.

 

Spread the word.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Once in you're in a theater, it makes sense from several perspectives to stay there for a minute rather than jump around - this includes from a productivity standpoint.

3 Eastern Front releases made sense...this is a Russian development team after all...you can hardly begrudge them this choice.

4 Would have been a death stroke, Africa with more 109's would have been somewhat better, but still more of the same in too many regards for many players to yield the infusion of revenue that the team needs.

 

Once we're in the Pacific, then 3 releases makes sense there too in order to flesh things out a bit, as there is much ground to cover.

It won't make much sense to spend the resources developing the carrier tech and then leave to somewhere else. 

 

After that, then my hope is a tactical, 9th Air Force Channel/Normandy release - that seems to be the most bang for the buck after the PTO.

 

Although if it were up to me, we'd stay in the PTO for another 5 releases. 

 

This!

 

There's productivity benefits to building assets and reusing them across scenarios. It was helpful for Normandy and Kuban that they didn't have to create entirely new content for each of those two and were able to modify and build off of each of them. That's not to say that we didn't see entirely new things but they were built on top of each of the last.

 

Pacific means the team will be building a whole bunch of new stuff to make that whole world believable. Some of that will undoubtedly be reused for Okinawa and a hypothetical third Pacific scenario.

[Ribbon]

i want them all    Pacific, African and Mediterranean  theatre!

for me maps means a lot same as planes, snowy maps are killing my eyes. Pacific theatre gives that warm feel; sea, sunny day, takeoff/landing from carrier or sinking them. Same with African it could have some interesting landscapes (green areas and desert), mediterranean with it's coast and hills.

That's why Kuban map will be my favorite so far, sea and mountains will give variety instead flat cold BoS/BoM maps.

And i don't think devs will need years to develop Pacific theatre cos tech is here especially now with procedural generation for maps, if they needed single year to develop BoK than Pacific can be done in the same timeframe, maybe little more.

[Gambit21]

well if YOU, Mr. Pacific Northwest, say so

 

It's not about me...it's just the reality of the situation that's been hashed out on more than one occasion, including input from Jason.

 

This happens all the time...over and over.

"Why no B-17's?....Why no Battle of Britain?...Why no clickable cockpits?....Why not more player controlled vehicles?....Why no Mediterranean?...Why no G6?...Why...Why...Why....

Reasonable queries that as a community, we have the right to ask.

Thing is, those questions are answered over and over again, yet instead of researching the answers someone always posts the question yet again....and again...

So...after a while, rather than typing long answers explaining yet again, it's easier to just say "It's not happening" even though it comes off as short.

 

Reminds me of RoF and Zeppelin.

[SYN_Mike77]

The biggest untapped market for this franchise is the US.  For that market, the pacific is the way to go.

 

Besides, if their is one thing that could make me spring for VR, it's carrier take offs and landings!

[ShamrockOneFive]

The biggest untapped market for this franchise is the US.  For that market, the pacific is the way to go.

 

Besides, if their is one thing that could make me spring for VR, it's carrier take offs and landings!

 

You know I hadn't thought about that but VR plus carrier landings would have to be one of the coolest upcoming things that can happen. Catching the wire while wearing a VR headset? Yeah....!

[Gambit21]

"ShamrockOneFive you're at 3/4 of a mile...call the ball"

[Professor1942]

There's a great platform here.

Imho it needs to reach a larger audience.

Let folk know.

Spread the word.

+1

 

I've convinced two friends to buy into the series just in the past week. It's pretty easy to do if anyone you know likes flight sims but hasn't thought to give this a try. There are some stunning videos out on YouTube - share them!

[Feathered_IV]

You know I hadn't thought about that but VR plus carrier landings would have to be one of the coolest upcoming things that can happen. Catching the wire while wearing a VR headset? Yeah....!

I had.

That was where I was hoping the release of BoP would coincide with newer, cheaper VR.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

I also hope that il2 BoX will be able to expand vastly, but its a niche game.

 

Their budget is limited.

 

I wish the CloD guys the best of luck but in an ideal world it would all be combined.

 

Unfortunately, its not an ideal world.

 

If we get past Kuban, ill be happy.

 

AFAIK they're operating on tight margins.

 

The more we can promote the game the better chance we will get our preferred theatres/planes.

 

Not as many as youd think are aware of BoX.

 

Get the word out.

 

Not just of BoX but all the user campaigns or external apps like PWCG.

 

No matter our or the devs passion for the project its all about cold hard cash at the end of the day.

 

BoX hasnt gone viral,it should do.

 

Even amongst the sim community.

 

There's a great platform here.

 

Imho it needs to reach a larger audience.

 

Let folk know.

 

Spread the word.

so true, but then the real question is why didn't it get viral the first time with BOS?

after that, the devs did basically the same thing and released BOM, and now BOK, although the map will look quite different, its still the same front. it will attract the same people who already bought into the product, but probably not many new ones. im convinced that VR implementation and their announced FM patch will attract more new customers than BOK...

 

spreading the word is not really easy though. as all my real life friends are not at all interested in flight simulations, and not even my colleagues are, and they are flying prop aircraft everyday for a living.

i bought BOS and BOM, and bought BOS another time as a gift for a sim friend of mine...but he didnt like it, as he was of the opinion that the eastern front is boring. honestly, i wouldnt know where else to spread the word.

 

getting the potential american market on board will be very important, so pacific will be a huge addition to the series, as i said earlier already.although im not sure, that with a pacific scenario, the american market actually will be the biggest party of them, considering the commonwealth countries involved and not to forget japan itself. combine them, and you might have more potential customers than the american market. 

still you could attract the american market with a western front as well and additionally get other europeans onboard who for now dont have any connection to the current and upcoming theaters that we know of yet. and this with probably "very little" effort, as its almost only a map thats needed, and a handful aircraft, when we talk about africa. to not use the already developed aircraft in other theaters they were fighting is insane. especially if the devs struggle to survive. this would give them way more revenue than trying to sell the same aircraft to the same people the 10th time in a sale. thats why i think 3times pacific in a row will just keep the other "untouched" market out for too long.  

Edited April 24, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[dburne]

 

getting the potential american market on board will be very important, so pacific will be a huge addition to the series, as i said earlier already. still you could attract the american market with a western front as well and additionally get other europeans onboard who for now dont have any connection to the current and upcoming theaters that we know of yet. thats why i think 3times pacific in a row will just keep the other "untouched" market out for too long.  

 

This for sure, the PTO will go a long way with adding more American market customers to this sim.

 

I am way more excited about this prospect than I am the upcoming Kuban theatre.

[Wolf8312]

dcs is just a brainfart with fancy clickable cockpits

 

I cant imagine anyone who thinks this could ever for example have learned how to fly the blackshark helicopter in DCS or many of its other truly incredible modules. Can you explain exactly why you think its a brain fart dude?

[9./JG27DavidRed]

first of all DUDE, if you question my skills in dcs, then look on their forum and search for my name....you might find a couple of answers....or watch some of the little vids i made and put on youtube. heck ive found videos about me from other dcs users...

but how is the skill of a person in another simulation relevant to this discussion anyway, DUDE?

second DUDE, this thread and this forum is not about dcs, and the topic really should not drift over to why i think dcs lacks in so many ways, its irrelevant....

Edited April 24, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[xThrottle_Geek]

I just don't understand the sentiment when someone states that they have NO interest in a particular theatre or aircraft. Sure, I'm interested in specific battles/aircraft more than I am some others but I've never once thought there wasn't any value to a certain one because of some, ANY, reason. I know I wouldn't turn down a ride in a Yak/109/MC202 if given the chance simply because I'm American or any other reason. Simply being a sim/aviation/history enthusiast should provide enough interest to try something. The only argument I can understand is a financial one. I'm blessed enough at this point in my life that that's not an issue as far as simming is concerned. . so, I've bought everything for what I consider the best sim investment at this point and I'm now both better informed and more interested in the Eastern front than I ever have been. That can only be a good thing, right?

Edited April 24, 2017 by =CAF=xThrottle_Geek

[9./JG27DavidRed]

yes sure, thats a good thing...and many think like you, others dont...the reasons why people are into ww2 flight sim vary quite much.and although we share the same hobby, the reason why might be a completely different one. IL2 should try to get all of us onboard.

in the end, it doesnt matter at all if you understand it or not, why some people share no interest in particular theaters. its a fact, and thats the only thing that matters for us customers, the devs and the future of this series.

that they started with BOS is understandable, that they did it essentially 3times in a row was a mistake imo. that they now will go to the pacific will be vital. but i think it wouldnt matter where they go now, they just have to leave the eastern front now. anyway, its the pacific, and imo, they should have done it earlier already...but staying again on 1front for too long(3 times in a row), is i think dangerous for the series, if we believe in the devs when they say that they struggle financially.

Edited April 24, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[unreasonable]

I just don't understand the sentiment when someone states that they have NO interest in a particular theatre or aircraft. Sure, I'm interested in specific battles/aircraft more than I am some others but I've never once thought there wasn't any value to a certain one because of some, ANY, reason. I know I wouldn't turn down a ride in a Yak/109/MC202 if given the chance simply because I'm American or any other reason. Simply being a sim/aviation/history enthusiast should provide enough interest to try something. The only argument I can understand is a financial one. I'm blessed enough at this point in my life that that's not an issue as far as simming is concerned. . so, I've bought everything for what I consider the best sim investment at this point and I'm now both better informed and more interested in the Eastern front than I ever have been. That can only be a good thing, right?

 

Yes it is a good thing, and for people who had little idea about the Eastern Front but some curiosity about the air war BoS should have been very interesting.  I also like it, (minus the unlocks, levels and suchlike gimicks)  despite having already read loads about it and played hundreds of hours of IL2-46 in eastern campaigns. So I probably got most of my eastern front air warfare knowledge with help from Il-2 46 - the ground war I have known about in reasonable detail for nearly 40 years! 

 

As it happens I also know quite a fair bit about the Pacific - but long flights over water hold very little appeal, and being a kamikaze at Okinawa none at all.  I am also blessed that I do not have to worry about small expenses: but I do have limited time and energy. I suspect that for most people who like CFS but are not that thrilled with the Pacific it is not so much that they have no interest in the theatre or the planes: but that the level of interest they have is insufficient to motivate them to invest - money or time, whatever is their scarce resource.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Pacific means Carriers, seas, Zekes,   much better than fly again and again Déjavù' Bf 109's just over sand.

 

Eh. I don't know why variants of the 109 get so much crap.

 

Carriers, oceans and the PTO just don't capture me.

[Wolf8312]

first of all DUDE, if you question my skills in dcs, then look on their forum and search for my name....you might find a couple of answers....or watch some of the little vids i made and put on youtube. heck ive found videos about me from other dcs users...

but how is the skill of a person in another simulation relevant to this discussion anyway, DUDE?

second DUDE, this thread and this forum is not about dcs, and the topic really should not drift over to why i think dcs lacks in so many ways, its irrelevant....

 

I dont give a monkeys about your skills either way! I was asking why you were refering to a sim like DCS as a 'brain fart' and am now only more interested tbh, especially when you apparently possess such inhuman skill and choose to celebrate this fact by making your very own DCS tube videos! A brain fart still dont care to explain?

 

And I am mentioning DCS because you mentioned (pooped on it and ran) it in comparison to other sims, and was interested therefore to understand how anyone could refer to such a simulation in such a ridiculous manenr? Of course at that time I didnt realize what I was dealing with.

 

And I used the word 'dude' which you obviously have a problem with, because I didnt want you to take my post as being aggressive and hoped to keep things friendly.

 

Take it easy dude...