Is it true that there are no manual start ups?

[Wolf8312]

I can't seem to find how to enable a cold start with the FW190 and I came across some disturbing reports that BOS does not have this feature to start from cold? Please tell me this isn't true and I am overlooking something? I've been watching the air combat tutorial on you tube and he can start from cold so I am wondering what he's doing that I am not, I've tried expert settings and unticking warmed up engine in custom settings but no dice. Have they changed it or something I seem to remember being able to start cold. Many thanks!

[Feathered_IV]

He may have been starting it in DCS... 

 

This title has animated startups where you can watch the procedure and read the checklist, but not the mouse-clicking manual starts.

[dburne]

Good question, I was wondering the same here recently.

 

I seem to recall back in the days of Early Access for BoS there was a way to start cold and dark as well.

[Comes]

You have to select the aircraft as "parked" in the Quick Mission.

Then you can start from cold and dark, but it still is just a single push of a Button, which initializes the start up procedure. 

[PA-Sniv]

And, depending on planes, you also should adjust throttle/mixture before the lauching the startup procedure, otherwise engine fails to start.

 

Cheers,

[Riderocket]

to start up cold, you need to disable the "warm engine start" in difficulty settings

[Wolf8312]

No I know there are no clickable cockpits, I just meant is it possible to start a campaign mission from the ground cold? Where you have to go through the start up  processs using the buttons mapped to keyboard and Hotas? I'll try selecting 'parked' and see if that will alter the campaign. It's just nice to go through the proceedure and know that if you were flying for real you would know all the steps. And yes I disabled the warm engine start in diffiuculty settings.

Or maybe they were not the right difficulty settings will have another look!

[Comes]

It is not possible to do so in the default campaign. 

 

There are a few user made missions and campaigns in the Mission subforum, that have you do the complete start up procedure.

And I guess when the new carreer mode is released, it will also be possible.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Comes

[Finkeren]

I'm all for having to do the taxiing as part of the beginning of a mission, but I'm not so sure about the start-up procedure.

 

In most cases, the pilots did not participate in starting up the engine. That was the job of the ground crew.

 

Also, at certain points during the war it was common to taxi fighter planes by hand into waiting position by having the ground crew simply pushing the aircraft to conserve fuel, so starting a mission at the end of the runway with the engine running is not as unrealistic as it sounds.

[Wolf8312]

I wasn't aware of that interesting! But I would guess they knew how to start the planes?

[Feathered_IV]

 

Also, at certain points during the war it was common to taxi fighter planes by hand into waiting position by having the ground crew simply pushing the aircraft to conserve fuel, so starting a mission at the end of the runway with the engine running is not as unrealistic as it sounds.

 

That's true.  Aircraft were often dispersed quite some distance away and were pushed or towed out for operations.  This seemed to happen to extremes as the war progressed.

[Finkeren]

I wasn't aware of that interesting! But I would guess they knew how to start the planes?

Obviously yes, but since the start-up procedure can't be completed by one person - some of it involves turning the prop by hand for 2-4 full revolutions, which is practically impossible to do alone - it was easier for the ground crew to do by themselves.

 

Often time the pilots would be busy doing other things at this time: Going over the briefing together one last time, receiving the latest weather report, getting into their flight gear or simply taking a piss (the value of starting out a long mission with an empty bladder should not be underestimated).

 

Btw: This is concerning the start-up procedure at the start of the mission. Restarting the engine after it has been turned off for a short while is a lot easier and on many aircraft could be done by the pilot without even leaving the cockpit. A notable exception to this is the Bf 109, where the starter had to be hand-cranked during ingnition with a detachable handle that was placed on the right side of the engine and removed once the engine was running - similar to very early motor vehicles. I don't know if German pilots carried a spare handle on the plane, but it would still take two people to start the engine.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Finkeren

[seafireliv]

Also, at certain points during the war it was common to taxi fighter planes by hand into waiting position by having the ground crew simply pushing the aircraft to conserve fuel, so starting a mission at the end of the runway with the engine running is not as unrealistic as it sounds.

Well BOB footage demonstrates that. So yea would`ve happened elsewhere too.

 

However, I would love a manual start sometimes. Also, I do like how the engine will sometimes sputter and die on a cold start. love it, in fact.

 

Also, I`d love it if I saw the ground crew handcranking the engine into life, while some guy sat on your tail to balance the plane and if ground crew ran to your plane when landed..... Oh well, one can dream, I guess. Doubt we`ll see it this side of a decade.

Edited April 20, 2017 by seafireliv

[ShamrockOneFive]

Now that I have access to a high-fidelity DCS module I see what the "fun" can be in doing a full cold start but I also kind of like the fact that I can just hop in and press start and the realistic startup sequence occurs while I sort out my mission objectives.

 

There's no right answer here but the team has definitely made the decision to make startup less of a factor. If the OP is concerned, engine/systems modeling is still high fidelity here in Expert mode and actually remains so in Normal mode just with an AI/helper system that operates in the background.

[Finkeren]

Oh don't get me wrong: I think a full manual start-up would be a lot of fun, even without clickpits (which I personally don't care for) and I still hope, that the devs will gradually implement more and more details that can be operated manually.

 

I just want to point out, that having an automated start-up isn't necessarilly a bad representation of reality, since it usually wasn't the pilot who started the engine.

[dburne]

Now that I have access to a high-fidelity DCS module I see what the "fun" can be in doing a full cold start but I also kind of like the fact that I can just hop in and press start and the realistic startup sequence occurs while I sort out my mission objectives.

 

There's no right answer here but the team has definitely made the decision to make startup less of a factor. If the OP is concerned, engine/systems modeling is still high fidelity here in Expert mode and actually remains so in Normal mode just with an AI/helper system that operates in the background.

 

Agreed, my feelings as well.

 

Whilst  I very much enjoy going through the entire cold start procedure of the KA-50 Attack Helicopter , I am just as much enjoying pressing my engine start button for the Yak-1 in BoS before taking off on a sortie. More time for flying/combat, which of course is what I enjoy the most.

 

Heck I am still just flying in Normal mode as I get fully re-acclimated to this sim but do plan on graduating to Expert - or at least Custom, with engine management enabled here in the not too distant future I hope.

[Wolf8312]

Obviously yes, but since the start-up procedure can't be completed by one person - some of it involves turning the prop by hand for 2-4 full revolutions, which is practically impossible to do alone - it was easier for the ground crew to do by themselves.

Often time the pilots would be busy doing other things at this time: Going over the briefing together one last time, receiving the latest weather report, getting into their flight gear or simply taking a piss (the value of starting out a long mission with an empty bladder should not be underestimated).

Btw: This is concerning the start-up procedure at the start of the mission. Restarting the engine after it has been turned off for a short while is a lot easier and on many aircraft could be done by the pilot without even leaving the cockpit. A notable exception to this is the Bf 109, where the starter had to be hand-cranked during ingnition with a detachable handle that was placed on the right side of the engine and removed once the engine was running - similar to very early motor vehicles. I don't know if German pilots carried a spare handle on the plane, but it would still take two people to start the engine.

Thanks for the interesting info man. There's an audible book called forgotten voices 'the Battle of Britain' that I'm listening to at the moment and I think you'd like it as it deals with the personal experiences, and little everyday details of the lives of the pilots.

[Wolf8312]

The thing is, the vast majority of the time I start hot and get into combat ASAP. But I do like to learn and master startup proceedures in each of the DCS modules as it gives one a much greater feeling of, understanding the AC and what you are doing. Imagine driving a car that was warmed up for you every morning, and each time you stopped you'd have to get on the blower to your start up crew- yeah it's me I stoped again. lol you'd feel utterly clueless!

 

Slight exaggeration I know, but it's the same thing really. One of the many joys of DCS is the sense of power, control and accomplishment you feel from really understanding the AC start up, landing, and learning the weapon systems, by which time I feel pretty competent. Also add 'simply flying' to the black shark checklist as wow I took a long time to learn how to fly it without snapping my rotary blades together all the time! But now I feel like a god damned flying terminator in that thing!

 

It just makes you feel like a real pilot, and in the end I always don't feel like I have learned an AC, or can truly say I can fly it, if I don't know how to start cold.

 

It's not going to put me off though because the flight models are just so wonderful and everything feels so right. After DCS landing in sturmovik BOS/M is just so much fun and so much of a difficult challenge, whereas the DCS birds land themselves. Sturmovik is the better combat dogfighting experience, looks much better, and has vastly better performance.

 

If you havent already get the Viggen, best jet I've flown so far. BOS VR kinda interrupted my training!

Edited April 21, 2017 by TheNoobleWurtha

[OrLoK]

Compared to DCS there are lots of "flaws" and oddities in BoX which can initially frustrate but when you look at what BoX offers one on a wider scale its quite mind boggling andrather wonderful.

 

Imho the pros outweigh the cons. Its just a bit of a jolt to those coming from DCS.

[JG4_Sputnik]

After DCS landing in sturmovik BOS/M is just so much fun and so much of a difficult challenge, whereas the DCS birds land themselves. 

 

Seriously? 

I feel COMPLETELY the opposite.

At the beginning, I crashed about 8/10 FW190D landings whereas in BoS I had no issues whatsoever from the first day on.

Strange!

 

But every other thing you say I would second, "learning" a machine from the start gives me a lot of pleasure and immersion. It's sad that BoX don't provide it, but thankfully there are many sims now in the marked you can chose from and get different experiences from. BoX is a good "in between" Sim that has a strong focus on fighting and online.

Cheers

[Wolf8312]

Yeah honestly I got the M2000C the other week and landed it basically on intuition alone with no problems whereas with the BOS planes I have to check the you tube combat library and still cant get it right! But yeah you're right I'll just accept it for what it is and by the sounds of it I can still take off cold by creating a custom battle right?

[seafireliv]

I remember when I had F16 fighting falcon and I decided to go the totally realistic route of a manual cold start...

 

15 minutes later the jet was ready to take off...

 

 

But then again I also flew a full 8 hour B17 flight once... I`m a sucker for realism. I`ve got to try at least once if I can`t get in the real thing.

Edited April 21, 2017 by seafireliv

[JG4_Sputnik]

Yeah honestly I got the M2000C the other week and landed it basically on intuition alone with no problems whereas with the BOS planes I have to check the you tube combat library and still cant get it right! But yeah you're right I'll just accept it for what it is and by the sounds of it I can still take off cold by creating a custom battle right?

Well ok if you compare DCS jets to BoS props I would agree.

Yes if you do quick missions or user missions that provide it you can cold start and taxi. Also check PWCG for BoS which provides an awesome dynamic SP campaign (no cold starts though).

[Chief_Mouser]

 

In most cases, the pilots did not participate in starting up the engine. That was the job of the ground crew.

 

Also, at certain points during the war it was common to taxi fighter planes by hand into waiting position by having the ground crew simply pushing the aircraft to conserve fuel, so starting a mission at the end of the runway with the engine running is not as unrealistic as it sounds.

 

If you start the P-40 from cold in BoX, it takes so long for the water and oil temperatures to get up to minimum operating limits that you will have used 20% of your fuel. Definitely not worth bothering with.

[Wolf8312]

haha yeah thats a good point I mean I like realism as much as the next guy but...

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

If you start the P-40 from cold in BoX, it takes so long for the water and oil temperatures to get up to minimum operating limits that you will have used 20% of your fuel. Definitely not worth bothering with.

When in reality it was getting hot so fast that pilot was advice to roll out and take off as fast as it can be save.

[SharpeXB]

I like both DCS and IL-2 but they focus on different aspects. Just realize DCS planes cost $50 apiece and take two years or longer to make. So the scope of the air war as in IL-2, 30 planes and multitudes of maps, would be impossible for DCS to achieve. I do like the variety in this hobby of having both types of sim to choose from though. But they can't both have everything.