How do you use your keyboard while VR is on?

[Europa]

I dont have a VR. Just curious. Since the VR blocks your sight how do you use your keyboard?

[SAG]

people  look through the nose gap on the Rift and i think the Vive can give you an image of the outside world throught its frontal camera.

 

other alternatives include mapping everything to their HOTAS or using voice recognition software such as VoiceAttack

Edited April 12, 2017 by 19.TAW//SAG

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

just type or use it like normal..

Without looking just by feel

[HagarTheHorrible]

HOTAS and Voice commands.

Edited April 12, 2017 by HagarTheHorrible

[dburne]

HOTAS and Voice commands.

 

This for sure.

You don't want to be accessing your keyboard much at all. Rather cumbersome.

[OrLoK]

I rarely use my Keyboard but if I do i usually touch type or at a push simply raise my HMD for a miin.

 

Also, Hagar, care to share your VA profile?

[Tomsk]

HOTAS and Voice commands.

 

+1

 

I have a lot of things mapped to my HOTAS, for everything else I use VoiceAttack, it works really well.

[HagarTheHorrible]

I rarely use my Keyboard but if I do i usually touch type or at a push simply raise my HMD for a miin.

 

Also, Hagar, care to share your VA profile?

I'm using VAC at the moment, it's also very much a work in progress as I get back into this sim. dburne might have a VA profile that he doesn't mind sharing. Edited April 12, 2017 by HagarTheHorrible

[dburne]

I'm using VAC at the moment, it's also very much a work in progress as I get back into this sim. dburne might have a VA profile that he doesn't mind sharing.

 

Not yet as I don't even have VA yet, probably because I am currently only flying SP.

 I do plan on getting it and giving a try before long.

[Feathered_IV]

Getting a mouse with a few extra buttons (mine has 15) and programming some to be L-Ctrl, L-Shift, L-Alt, R-Ctrl etc. lets you increase the number of options on your stick's hat-switch and thumb buttons, enough to cover any eventuality.  My MS FFB combined with a programmable mouse in my left hand gives me 21 individual commands without breaking a sweat.  And up to 42 without resorting to any kind of three finger gymnastics. 

 

You will never have to take your eyes off the screen again.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Feathered_IV

[dburne]

Getting a mouse with a few extra buttons (mine has 15) and programming some to be L-Ctrl, L-Shift, L-Alt, R-Ctrl etc. lets you increase the number of options on your stick's hat-switch and thumb buttons, enough to cover any eventuality.  My MS FFB combined with a programmable mouse in my left hand gives me 21 individual commands without breaking a sweat.  And up to 42 without resorting to any kind of three finger gymnastics. 

 

You will never have to take your eyes off the screen again.

 

What we really need is the ability in the controller setup menu to assign a button on stick as a modifier to do the same.

I could double easily the number of buttons I could assign commands to with this ability.

I use my Warthog paddle on my stick as a modifier in other sims, and would love to be able to do so in BOS. Like the POV Hat, could use it as a trim button, but when holding paddle in and use it then it pans view around. And with VR this would be especially helpful.

 

I know I can do this with TARGET as well, but I have gotten to where I prefer to use the in game controller setup now as opposed to running TARGET.

 

But I digress...

 

I am very grateful for VR and absolutely love that BOS finally supports it! I will always hope that someday maybe in the future this feature might find it's way into this sim, but with all they have on their plate with the upcoming products I am sure it may not if ever.

[Jade_Monkey]

I already had all the keys i use mapped to my hotas. Since i already knew them by heart, now that i just got VR i dont need the keyboard (except for the Escape key which is easy to find).

[Blitzen]

I will be getting on the VR train later this year, but in order to prepare perhaps I should start getting used to some sort of vice command system...which one is the simplest (cheapest?)to down load & install and has easiest learning curve..

[dburne]

I will be getting on the VR train later this year, but in order to prepare perhaps I should start getting used to some sort of vice command system...which one is the simplest (cheapest?)to down load & install and has easiest learning curve..

 

Voice Attack is very popular from what I have read.

 

I do not have yet, but plan to add here shortly.

[Thad]

I dont have a VR. Just curious. Since the VR blocks your sight how do you use your keyboard?

With difficulty. Same with ones throttle and less so with your joystick. You have to memorize. This is one of biggest drawbacks to using VR headsets.

[HagarTheHorrible]

With difficulty. Same with ones throttle and less so with your joystick. You have to memorize. This is one of biggest drawbacks to using VR headsets.

 

As someone who doesn't appear to have a VR hmd you certainly seem to have made up your mind, for the worse, sure it's not perfect, but if you're going to diss it then at least try and give it a go first before coming out with your negative suppositions.

 

VR is the future (and with this patch the future, or at least a taste of it is here), this patch and the hardware to enable it may still be very much at a BETA stage but it's far from rubbish or disappointing, in fact it's actually, all things considered, very good and BoX is probably among the one of the best implementations so far.

[SAG]

I will be getting on the VR train later this year, but in order to prepare perhaps I should start getting used to some sort of vice command system...which one is the simplest (cheapest?)to down load & install and has easiest learning curve..

 

i dont own VR yet but i do own VoiceAttack for other games and it works really well, just watch asimple tutorial on youtube on how to set a command and that will be all you need to know really. aaah and its cheap as well (10USD i tihnk)

[mrvile]

It's actually not that hard to view the keyboard through the "nose gap" of the Oculus Rift. It's almost impossible to bind everything in a DCS aircraft to a Thrustmaster HOTAS-X, so I end up using the keyboard for a lot of stuff in DCS and I've gotten quite used to it.

 

Fortunately in IL-2 there isn't quite as much stuff to bind so I do try to keep everything on the HOTAS.

 

But it's easy enough for me to use my keyboard that I haven't considered alternatives like Voice Attack or anything like that. 

With difficulty. Same with ones throttle and less so with your joystick. You have to memorize. This is one of biggest drawbacks to using VR headsets.

 

Have you actually tried it?

 

Before I got my Rift I was really concerned about keyboard usage because I was playing a lot of DCS at the time. Once I got into VR I was quite surprised to find that keyboard usage is basically unhindered.

[Thad]

As someone who doesn't appear to have a VR hmd you certainly seem to have made up your mind, for the worse, sure it's not perfect, but if you're going to diss it then at least try and give it a go first before coming out with your negative suppositions.

 

VR is the future (and with this patch the future, or at least a taste of it is here), this patch and the hardware to enable it may still be very much at a BETA stage but it's far from rubbish or disappointing, in fact it's actually, all things considered, very good and BoX is probably among the one of the best implementations so far.

Salutations,

 

No I don't. I haven't made up my mind. I have a watch and see attitude. VR is very expensive and currently doesn't present the graphic quality a good gaming monitor provides. Not to mention basically blinding the user from seeing other equipment. Ergo my justified comment about its drawback.  Also, I never called it rubbish. Please do not put words into my post that are not there. But from all I've seen and read I consider VR too expensive and 'currently' lacking in graphic appeal. All things considered..., like I stated, I'll watch and see what developes. In the meantime... have fun with you VR equipment. I'll 'will' be watching.

[dburne]

Even all those year previously flying with Track IR, I assigned all my needed commands to my HOTAS and memorized them. Many I use the same ones across multiple sims. Heck I can even load up a mission in the DCS KA-50 attack helicopter and fly a complete mission with never having to use the keyboard.

 

I guess all this time of doing it this way for me, really paid off now that I have VR. So far in the BoX VR flying I have done since yesterday, have not touched the keyboard whilst flying.

[Gambit21]

just type or use it like normal..

Without looking just by feel

Not the same.

When you're typing your hands are placed on the keyboard with you index fingers alway finding their homes on the F and J keys.

That's a whole lot different than finding a key (quickly)with your vision blocked and your hands on the flight stick.

[OrLoK]

As someone who doesn't appear to have a VR hmd you certainly seem to have made up your mind, for the worse, sure it's not perfect, but if you're going to diss it then at least try and give it a go first before coming out with your negative suppositions.

 

VR is the future (and with this patch the future, or at least a taste of it is here), this patch and the hardware to enable it may still be very much at a BETA stage but it's far from rubbish or disappointing, in fact it's actually, all things considered, very good and BoX is probably among the one of the best implementations so far.

Well, if anyone comes across a decent profile (or even a poor one) please, let us all know. My Googling has come up empty.

[mrvile]

Not the same.

When you're typing your hands are placed on the keyboard with you index fingers alway finding their homes on the F and J keys.

That's a whole lot different than finding a key (quickly)with your vision blocked and your hands on the flight stick.

 

Once I went VR I started binding anything I needed on the keyboard to the left-side of the keyboard. I can instantly find the WASD finger positions by feel (I've played enough FPS games) and that gives me plenty of bindings, especially with L-Shift and L-Ctrl modifiers.

[OrLoK]

A *shift* key utility ingame for joysticks would be most helpful.

[dburne]

A *shift* key utility ingame for joysticks would be most helpful.

 

The ability to assign a button as a modifier would certainly go a long way.

[mrvile]

Oh you can't assign joystick keys as modifiers? That sucks. It really helps a lot in DCS.

[Bearfoot]

Salutations,

 

 VR is very expensive and currently doesn't present the graphic quality a good gaming monitor provides. Not to mention basically blinding the user from seeing other equipment. 

 

Hi Thad,

 

(1) "VR is very expensive"

 

This is true!

 

(2) "currently doesn't present the graphic quality a good gaming monitor provides"

 

You know how you can tell the difference between an alligator or crocodile? See if the fourth tooth sticks out when the mouth is closed.

 

You know how you can tell the difference between someone who has never used VR and one who has? See if they are obsessed about image quality. 

 

It's crazy how prevalent this obsession is. And spot on for 2D: I adore image quality there. But so, so, so, so, so, so, so, misplaced in VR. In VR, obsessing about image quality totally misses the point. It's like complaining that cocaine tastes bad compared to sugar, so you are going to wait till they improve the flavor (edit: note, I am neither advocating nor discouraging recreational psychotropic drug use! just using this as analogy) ! Here is what I wrote in another post: 

 

 

I've said this before in other discussions, and will repeat it here ...

 

With VR, the magic happens inside your head, not in your eyes.

 

Focusing on image quality/resolution misses the point of VR. 

 

It is like adding a new sensory channel, at the expense of an existing one.

 

The (strict) visual channel is compromised, but not only does your sensorium gain a new dimension, but entirely new parts of your brain get engaged that simply snooze during 2D.

 

Let me repeat that for effect: YOUR brain on VR is different in a way that you just cannot replicate on a 4K, 8K, or 2000K 2D screen. The visuals are secondary to the VR experience.

 

The first thing you notice is the depth perception and immersion. But, honestly, the wow factor of the immersion etc. will fade, but the fact that another aspect of your brain is now taking part in the simulated universe is what will have a lasting effect. Your situational awareness is much greater. Your sense of being is much greater. Your sense of location in space is much greater. You know your place in the aircraft, the sky, the world. 

 

Sure, everything is blurry like you have vaseline smeared on your goggles.  But you don't give a rat's caboose, because you are *there*.

 

 

 

Entirely new parts of your brain are engaged. It's like being able to see when before you could only hear. It is that radical. It is that transformative. And that is anytime someone brings up image quality as an objection, I can only think: "You. Are. Missing. The. Point".

 

You honestly do not care about the loss of resolution after the first minute in VR ...

 

(3) "blinding the user"

 

This is simply factually incorrect. As incorrect as saying seatbelts suck because you cannot move your arms. Any VR user will tell you --- you are not blinded. I use my main keyboard well enough, and am more constrained by the fact that in my center-mounted stick arrangement I have to lean forward very far to reach the keyboard rather than being "blinded": this is why I use the solution I describe in the other post, i.e., a mini keyboard strapped to my leg.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Bearfoot

[dburne]

Oh you can't assign joystick keys as modifiers? That sucks. It really helps a lot in DCS.

 

Yeah, I so wish we had that ability. I use the Paddle on my Warthog joystick as a modifier in my other flight sims and would love to just simply be able to assign it as such in the game GUI for BoS.

Especially in VR, where using the keyboard is not quite so easy.

[nrosko]

I use a button box & hotas but prefer option like in dcs where you can use you headset like a mouse pointer & select many controls this way by assigning one button to left click. I don't have my keyboard & mouse near my hotas so bit of a pain in il2 imo navigating menus. 

[nrosko]

Hi Thad,

 

(1) "VR is very expensive"

 

This is true!

 

(2) "currently doesn't present the graphic quality a good gaming monitor provides"

 

You know how you can tell the difference between an alligator or crocodile? See if the fourth tooth sticks out when the mouth is closed.

 

You know how you can tell the difference between someone who has never used VR and one who has? See if they are obsessed about image quality. 

 

It's crazy how prevalent this obsession is. And spot on for 2D: I adore image quality there. But so, so, so, so, so, so, so, misplaced in VR. In VR, obsessing about image quality totally misses the point. It's like complaining that cocaine tastes bad compared to sugar, so you are going to wait till they improve the flavor! Here is what I wrote in another post: 

 

 

 

 

Entirely new parts of your brain are engaged. It's like being able to see when before you could only hear. It is that radical. It is that transformative. And that is anytime someone brings up image quality as an objection, I can only think: "You. Are. Missing. The. Point".

 

You honestly do not care about the loss of resolution after the first minute in VR ...

 

(3) "blinding the user"

 

This is simply factually incorrect. As incorrect as saying seatbelts suck because you cannot move your arms. Any VR user will tell you --- you are not blinded. I use my main keyboard well enough, and am more constrained by the fact that in my center-mounted stick arrangement I have to lean forward very far to reach the keyboard rather than being "blinded": this is why I use the solution I describe in the other post, i.e., a mini keyboard strapped to my leg.

 

I think the best way to think about it is to think of real life & would you choose to live it by looking from the outside at a small 2d flat screen in high resolution or the way you see it now with lower resolution. 

[Bearfoot]

I use a mini keyboard (like this) strapped to my leg using this .

 

But honestly, the main reason for this is due to the ergonomic challenges of reaching so far forward to get at my desktop keyboard over my center-mounted stick set up. I adopted this solution long before I got VR. The "nose gap" allows me ample access to all my peripherals. The "being blind in VR" is a myth.

[Ribbon]

I dont have a VR. Just curious. Since the VR blocks your sight how do you use your keyboard?

i dont have it either but i guess through hotas setup, i don't use keyboard at all since i bought thrustmaster twcs throttle

[Gambit21]

Once I went VR I started binding anything I needed on the keyboard to the left-side of the keyboard. I can instantly find the WASD finger positions by feel (I've played enough FPS games) and that gives me plenty of bindings, especially with L-Shift and L-Ctrl modifiers.

 

Smart.

I can find those WASD keys fairly fast as well - I'd think the easiest thing for most though would be the F1 - F12 keys

[Bearfoot]

Smart.

I can find those WASD keys fairly fast as well - I'd think the easiest thing for most though would be the F1 - F12 keys

 

Ya, except for the fact that these are bound by default to various view keys in both here and DCS, and that is too ingrained to change!

 

I've considered getting a small reprogrammable USB keypad, just for those key combinations (especially those requiring the right, or worse, two hands) that are particularly difficult to hit (and the myth of VR "blindness" is not the problem here!). But those things run at ridiculous prices! So I might end up re setting up my long retired Thrustmaster MFC panels to do the task ...

[mrvile]

Ya, except for the fact that these are bound by default to various view keys in both here and DCS, and that is too ingrained to change!

 

I've considered getting a small reprogrammable USB keypad, just for those key combinations (especially those requiring the right, or worse, two hands) that are particularly difficult to hit (and the myth of VR "blindness" is not the problem here!). But those things run at ridiculous prices! So I might end up re setting up my long retired Thrustmaster MFC panels to do the task ...

 

Defaults? Are you kidding? Rebinding keys is everyone's favorite part of playing DCS! 

Edited April 12, 2017 by mrvile

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Or just learn Touch Typing (takes about 2-3 hours)

[Bearfoot]

Or just learn Touch Typing (takes about 2-3 hours)

 

 

No expert, but to touch type don't your fingers have to be in the home row position to begin with? Which would take as long or longer than to just peck away at the key you want? Which, in either case, can be done without too much problem as, contrary to popular perception, you are NOT really totally blind when wearing the headset!!! 

[Gambit21]

Yeah but doesn't peeking through the nose hole break immersion? Or if not, isn't it disorienting?

[Bearfoot]

Yeah but doesn't peeking through the nose hole break immersion? Or if not, isn't it disorienting?

 

No to both!

 

Your brain adjusts to tune it out while maintaining suspension of disbelief.  Though sometimes it can cross the creepy/uncanny valley to enhance immersion, when you look down and through the nose gap see your arm blending into the arm and hand on the throttle in the VR world!

[Thad]

Hi Thad,

 

(1) "VR is very expensive"

 

This is true!

 

(2) "currently doesn't present the graphic quality a good gaming monitor provides"

 

You know how you can tell the difference between an alligator or crocodile? See if the fourth tooth sticks out when the mouth is closed.

 

You know how you can tell the difference between someone who has never used VR and one who has? See if they are obsessed about image quality. 

 

It's crazy how prevalent this obsession is. And spot on for 2D: I adore image quality there. But so, so, so, so, so, so, so, misplaced in VR. In VR, obsessing about image quality totally misses the point. It's like complaining that cocaine tastes bad compared to sugar, so you are going to wait till they improve the flavor (edit: note, I am neither advocating nor discouraging recreational psychotropic drug use! just using this as analogy) ! Here is what I wrote in another post: 

 

 

 

 

Entirely new parts of your brain are engaged. It's like being able to see when before you could only hear. It is that radical. It is that transformative. And that is anytime someone brings up image quality as an objection, I can only think: "You. Are. Missing. The. Point".

 

You honestly do not care about the loss of resolution after the first minute in VR ...

 

(3) "blinding the user"

 

This is simply factually incorrect. As incorrect as saying seatbelts suck because you cannot move your arms. Any VR user will tell you --- you are not blinded. I use my main keyboard well enough, and am more constrained by the fact that in my center-mounted stick arrangement I have to lean forward very far to reach the keyboard rather than being "blinded": this is why I use the solution I describe in the other post, i.e., a mini keyboard strapped to my leg.

Wow, I must have touched a sensitive button of yours. My opinion is not really that important to get upset or offended about. Relax and go enjoy some VR flying.