Zoom vs custom Icon

[Muddy]

Ok I (among others ) have requested cusomizable icons, the god word from the " only ones with a right to speak" have repeatedly pounced on the suggestion as some un-holy offering from the X-box devel!

 

How realistic is " ZOOM!?!?."

 

Was driving through the countryside other day and ,,, well I thought I might have seen something,,,,,, but ,,, no matter how hard I squinted.... things did not "ZOOM IN"!!!

So,, I formally request all full real MP games be played without ZOOM.

" TO BE CLEAR,,, THE ABOVE STAMENT IS SARCASAM!!""

This is necessary to keep with the full real concept of this sim,.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Muddy

[MAJ_stug41]

Sure, when the average screen can replicate the fidelity of the average eyes, that'd be a great idea. In the meantime I suppose you could un-map your zoom function, and the whine/dead horse function while you're at it.

[69th_chuter]

Yeah, zoom is actually the normal view but we need an increased fov to see what we're doing.

[=VARP=Cygann]

Well FOV could have been locked from the start, like in many other games, and then sizes of everything at a distance adjusted to scale with that one FOV for everyone to resemble what they would look like from those distances in real life.

Many games use this approach, in fact, only a few even use adjustable FOV on the fly as you play.

 

But it is too late for that now, you need to build whole game for it from the start.

If we would just lock it out at maximum zoom out now, they would need to revisit sizing of every object in game with distance to tune it. As much as this would have been best solution (and most VR friendly), probably not going to happen.

[216th_Jordan]

I think zoom is a better option than smartscaling. It compensates for the lack of resolution and in reality if you concentrate on something visually you also lose peripheral vision to quite some extent.

 

BUT I would also like custom Icons, a lot actually and I have been asking for them too. I think Han once responded in the questions thread and said that they might do it after BoK release.

Now, with VR, it think custom Icons are more needed than ever. There would need to be options on distance, color, size and text shown (hiding or showing player/plane/distance..).

Edited April 10, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

zoom simulates our eyes infinite focus (well almost infinite)

[=VARP=Cygann]

zoom simulates our eyes infinite focus (well almost infinite)

 

Focus ad zoom are apples and oranges mate.

Also even they were related (and they are not) you could only say 'compensate' for our tech shortcoming, definitely not 'simulate'.

 

To simulate is to try to model something as close as possible to reality, and this is exactly the opposite (regardless if you like the zoom feature or not).

 

I personally don't mind it at all, but it is not realistic and I can understand those that started thinking sims could do well without it. I think the same when I think VR, zooming is just silly in that context.

 

IMO it's a relic from the past (when we gamed at 1024*768 and FOV change was a great idea) that keep persisting even on nowadays hardware when resolution is good enough to think of better solutions.

But hey, people tend to stick to what they are used to and will always oppose to change at first, maybe one day we get a better, more innovative solutions that actually do simulate instead of compensate.  

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Fov is constant in Bos. You can choose body/head position and zoom degree. If I could have 1:1 scale with 200 fov plus good resolution then yes no zoom please.

Edited April 10, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[Ribbon]

I rarely use it but i look at it as compensation for resolution limitations.

You see in real life our eyes are much more capable to spot moving objects and focus on it, simply said!

If we stick to full real life reflections in game than game would be much harder than in real life, again making it less like sim.

Good example is in Arma with it's weapon sway, they tend to make it realistic without taking in consideration that person in real life under adrenaline, different sway patterns, with much more lean options and shooting discipline will compensate sway and make it way more accurate than game provide us.

I look at those things with compromise, if you take away some things than you need to add some other things to sustain real life capabilities.

However in my opinion regarding spotting objects(mostly moving and target) it would be better to add few pixels over existing ones on given distance than using zoom option.

But who knows maybe pilots were using binoculars in planes ;p

Edited April 10, 2017 by redribbon

[seafireliv]

Zoom has always bugged me a little right from the early games that started using it. I think it was supposed to represent squinting and making an image clearer by that process - This is actually true. You can make an image clearer by squinting.

 

However, as we know you can`t magnify it.

 

I use it quite a lot for spotting, as it`s better than resorting to icons.

Edited April 10, 2017 by seafireliv

[curiousGamblerr]

... i look at it as compensation for resolution limitations. You see in real life our eyes are much more capable to spot moving objects and focus on it, simply said! ...

 

/thread 

Edited April 10, 2017 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[Ribbon]

/thread

Be welcome!

[Scojo]

The current "zoom" is actually more of a FOV slider. It bridges the gap between what real eyes are capable of and what a monitor with lower resolution is capable of.

 

It would actually be less realistic if you removed it, imo.

 

One day when monitors are indistinguishable from looking at something in real life, you'll get your wish.

[Nibbio]

Those of you that have done some ground attack missions know that FOV zooming is a necessity in BOX mainly because ground objects are not visible in normal FOV until you are almost on top of them.

If you are say 4 or 5 km away ground objects like vehicles and buildings pop into view only in the narrowest zoomed FOV. This is a limitation I wish devs could/would get rid of.

[19//Moach]

the main reason we need zoom in this:

 

 

 

give me a screen that gives me 90° FoV at max resolution (and a gpu to power this) - and I'll give you my zoom

 

 

until then, it's only a fair compromise - note also, airplane spotting isn't affected by zoom - it only affects stationary ground objects

Edited April 10, 2017 by 19//Moach

[Muddy]

Well then it would seem some order of "Smart Scale" or a set of icons which are a single didget or symbols grey Amost transparent and only between say say.. 9 -3 km, this would be suitable imo

 

This would be my wish as I only play offline.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Muddy

[AndyJWest]

So, you are saying that people playing a game mode you don't actually participate in should be obliged to do so according to your rules? 

 

Pathetic.

[Guest deleted@1562]

My eyesight is not what it used to be, so: Keep zoom and add custom icons is what I would like to have.

[fjacobsen]

For me zoom is acceptable as a measure to compensate for the lag of proper resolution, but maybe resrrictkons for max zoom level would be in order.

 

Also I don't think many uses a realistic view setting, but sets a zoom level that is a compromise between periphical view and anough detail to distinguish between enemy and foe and then zooms in to confirm the sighting.

 

Regardless how hardcore You want this sim to be, it's still a game with alot of restrictions that counter realism.

[gnomechompsky]

Probably a controversial position, but I say get rid of zoom and add unit scaling at long distances to increase the size of units. If this were done to the point where it is roughly as easy to spot a plane in the game as a pilot in real life IMO that would be more realistic than a magic fov change.

 

The current system discriminates too heavily against players with good monitors and shader settings, and makes spotting harder than it would be for a real pilot.

Edited April 11, 2017 by gnomechompsky

[Muddy]

So, you are saying that people playing a game mode you don't actually participate in should be obliged to do so according to your rules?

 

Pathetic.

Nope that's not what I'm saying at all,, as a matter of fact it is totally opposite . People who don't play our game mode are telling us no.

 

From the first day when people asked for custom icons the purests put a quick stop to the conversation even though it would not change there game at all.

Saying it was unreal and should not be done at all. Do a search, it's all still there. Off line guys want some changes , how would that affect anyone else is beond me.

Probably a controversial position, but I say get rid of zoom and add unit scaling at long distances to increase the size of units. If this were done to the point where it is roughly as easy to spot a plane in the game as a pilot in real life IMO that would be more realistic than a magic fov change.

The current system discriminates too heavily against players with good monitors and shader settings, and makes spotting harder than it would be for a real pilot.

 

I agree.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Muddy

[Thad]

Sure, when the average screen can replicate the fidelity of the average eyes, that'd be a great idea. In the meantime I suppose you could un-map your zoom function, and the whine/dead horse function while you're at it.

This ^

[AndyJWest]

Muddy, you wrote "I formally request all full real MP games be played without ZOOM". You later wrote "I only play offline". That is a clear and unambiguous assertion that people playing a game mode you don't actually participate in should be obliged to do so according to your rules. It is still a pathetic thing to say, no matter how you try to weasel-word around it. If you want custom icons for offline play (something I'd support), then say so directly, rather than trolling the forum. 

[SharpeXB]

How realistic is " ZOOM!?!?."

Was driving through the countryside other day and ,,, well I thought I might have seen something,,,,,, but ,,, no matter how hard I squinted.... things did not "ZOOM IN"!!!

 

An explaination. It's another sim but the concept is the same.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2561114&postcount=220

A PC monitor can't simulate 20/20 vision. I assume when you're driving through the countryside you could read the road signs and your own dashboard right? Since we can't change the number of pixels on the screen the only thing we can do to see clearly as in the real world is to magnify the image.

[Muddy]

Muddy, you wrote "I formally request all full real MP games be played without ZOOM". You later wrote "I only play offline". That is a clear and unambiguous assertion that people playing a game mode you don't actually participate in should be obliged to do so according to your rules. It is still a pathetic thing to say, no matter how you try to weasel-word around it. If you want custom icons for offline play (something I'd support), then say so directly, rather than trolling the forum.

 

My apologies as I should have made my sarcasm a little more clear, I am on the side of those who agree that someone else should not dictating to others. For those who want labels, use labels, for those that don't, don't. It's should be that simple but some people ( not all , but there are very loud opponents to lables) in the past have cried bloody murder if the icon issue is raised.

Full real servers can have laser guns and atom bombs for all I care but some of those fellows have n the past tried to tell others to suck it up, and they wouldn't stand for it. this is the reason for my sarcasm as it only would affect my game. Not MP servers unless they wanted them...

 

So to be clear , I was being sarcastic and mean not to dictate to you haw to do your thing.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Muddy

[AndyJWest]

If your objective is to actually persuade the developers to add a feature, I suggest that you do so in a thread that starts on topic, and stays that way. I very much doubt they bother reading threads calling for features to be removed, just on the offchance that they might actually be trying to argue for something else instead. And for the record:

 

I would support the addition of optional customisable icons, both offline, and online for servers that want it. If people have objections to such things, they are under no obligation to use them, and accordingly I doubt that the developers  take that much notice of such comments. They are trying to encourage people to buy the product, and that generally involves adding features, not removing them.

 

I consider zoom a necessary feature to compensate for the lack of resolution of computer displays compared to the 'real world'. I rarely play online these days, and if a server wanted to disable it, I'd probably not play on it, but I see no reason to object to other people doing so.

 

I have never played on a 'full real server', because no such thing has ever existed. This is a game, it isn't real...