possible issue with imperial/metric FM calculations on P-40E

[19//Moach]

testing this theory has revealed a subjective, yet relevant improvement in flight performance on the P40 across the speed range

 

this was done by selecting "metric" in the game settings menu instead of the default "plane dependent"

 

 

a pair of players in TS were advised to try this, and both of them also reported improved handling on this type after selecting this setting

 

 

it is thus recommended to double check for parts of the flight calculations which could be using variables that are affected by units of measurement. 

 

 

this would certainly account for many of the issues a number of players have encountered, as calculations taking readings in miles and interpreting them as km/h would certainly cause a significant degradation of handling qualities

 

 

 

thank you

 

 

[Thad]

Ah.... the P-40 FM plot thickens.

[unreasonable]

That sort of data coding error has certainly happened before - one of the space probes got lost because an engineer entered a value that should have been Newtons for foot/pounds IIRC.

 

However, unless someone - JtD with his turn tests, for instance - can demonstrate a repeatable, quantitative difference between the settings, the alternative explanation, ie the placebo effect, cannot be ruled out.

[AndyJWest]

Sorry, but anyone reporting 'improved handling' after switching from imperial to metric display settings is imagining it. The modelling is all done in one system (presumably metric) and any changes to displayed data are simply multiplications by a conversion factor. It is of course possible that some data display conversions are incorrect, but there is no way on god's earth that the developers will have designed the FM to use two different systems of measurement. That would be simply insane.

[19//Moach]

Sorry, but anyone reporting 'improved handling' after switching from imperial to metric display settings is imagining it. The modelling is all done in one system (presumably metric) and any changes to displayed data are simply multiplications by a conversion factor. It is of course possible that some data display conversions are incorrect, but there is no way on god's earth that the developers will have designed the FM to use two different systems of measurement. That would be simply insane.

 

 

nasa crashed a multi-billion-dollar probe into mars over this stuff...   is it really that insane to suppose that maybe it could happen here?

Edited April 8, 2017 by 19//Moach

[AndyJWest]

Yes, it is insane to believe that the developers have created two versions of the FM algorithms, and switch between them when a player switches the GUI display from imperial to metric.

[19//Moach]

Yes, it is insane to believe that the developers have created two versions of the FM algorithms, and switch between them when a player switches the GUI display from imperial to metric.

 

yes, that would be insane - so much so that it is completely besides the point, see.  I never said anything about there being two different FMs

 

 

the possibility I'm trying to alert to, is that the one same FM logic may be working under the assumption that all units are metric (which is true of every plane besides the P40), and it could perhaps be getting (partially) fed airspeed values in MPH when it comes to this aircraft

 

 

this is not as obvious as it would seem, and the results of an otherwise correct calculation, working with partially incorrect values, would be most elusive and subjective enough to go unnoticed. 

 

 

 

"insane" would be to haughtily deny that it COULD happen, and refuse to give it at least a cursory second look

Edited April 8, 2017 by 19//Moach

[AndyJWest]

You really don't get it, do you? Of course the FM works under the assumption that all units are metric. Because it is built to use metric data, and all the constants/look-up tables etc are in metric. At no point is the flight modelling ever going to be using imperial units as data, because there is no earthly reason to do so - it would be an entirely needless complication to build a system to use two different sets of units in order to arrive at what is intended to be the same result. Airspeed is an output, not an input, and converting it to imperial to display it in the GUI is a trivial exercise.

 

Of course, if you can provide actual verifiable evidence to the contrary, please do so. Because otherwise I am going to assume that this is another of your half-baked 'explanations' for things that aren't actually happening in the first place. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by AndyJWest

[JG13_opcode]

This needs to be demonstrated/tested/documented with video or track files.  Just saying "check your code" isn't going to accomplish anything:  the developers are likely too busy to go looking for a needle in a haystack.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

i understand op's point and its valid that if it has not been done to check over all conversion equations used and make sure they are spot on down to like 0.000 decimal places at least

If for example the conversion for temperature was done wrong that would effect the planes abilities a lot as it would reach wrong temps at wrong times.

I mention temps as its one of the harder to convert and easiest to mess up as its a complex equation

(*F) is not a Linear LOGICAL scale but instead Illogical Inferial system :D where 50*F is 1/4 the temp of 100*F
(*C) is 100% linear where 50*C is exactly half the temp of 100*C

Edited April 9, 2017 by =R4T=Sshadow14

[unreasonable]

Except that 50 degrees C = 323.15 K, and 100 degrees C = 373.15 K

 

So given that 0 degrees K is absolute zero temperature, 50 C is not "exactly half" of 100 C at all.

 

Thank goodness the developers are intelligent and knowledgeable people, but it is hardly a surprise that they are reluctant to take advice from forums given such....

 

As said earlier by myself and others: they are only human and are capable of mistakes, but you have to prove that before you can expect to be taken seriously.

[Barnacles]

Ok, tried it out with an open mind. I couldn't find any quantifiable differences.