Ban on communist symbols

[Ekaton]

Given how German symbols are missing from the game due to legal reasons, what about countries where it is illegal to display communist symbols? At least according to Wikipedia there are quite a few - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_Communist_symbols

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I made Non-Offensive Sympols, deleting most Tips of Stars for USAAF, RAF and VVS:

 

 

 

 

[=WH=PangolinWranglin]

That made me giggle. I actually kinda like those insignia!

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I made Non-Offensive Sympols, deleting most Tips of Stars for USAAF, RAF and VVS:

 

-snip-

 

I guess if we're going to blanket-ban German historical symbols based on legality I fail to see how disrespecting the laws of countries with Communist party symbol bans is a joke.

[Finkeren]

If you actually read the Wikipedia article you'd see, that not a single one of those laws would actually ban the symbols as used in this game. They all talk about "display at public events" or "display with intent of propagandizing" etc.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

They all talk about "display at public events" or "display with intent of propagandizing" etc.

 

In other words banning them..? 

 

Flying a 109 with a Hakenkreuz is as propagandizing as flying a Yak with a red star. At what point does displaying a controversial symbol cross over in to propagandizing?

 

How the banning of the display of one symbol can be deemed constitutional and the banning of the display of another be deemed unconstitutional doesn't set a very clear legal precedent. To be fair, not all constitutions are created equal.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[AndyJWest]

Ah, internet lawyers. How did we ever manage before they became a thing?

[sinned]

Domicile of 1cgs isnt one of those countries. Quite simple.

 

Your dad have certain rules in the house. Go tell him other dads dont have those rules and see if he listens.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Ah, internet lawyers. How did we ever manage before they became a thing?

 

I don't know, why don't you ask the macro-economists and sociology professors in the political thread in Free Subject?

[LukeFF]

[Rolling_Thunder]

Yawwwwwwwn. This tired old topic.

[Ekaton]

If you actually read the Wikipedia article you'd see, that not a single one of those laws would actually ban the symbols as used in this game. They all talk about "display at public events" or "display with intent of propagandizing" etc.

Not really:

In Hungary - In March 2017, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán introduced a draft law that outlaws merchandise featuring symbols like the Nazi swastika or the communist five-pointed red star, including the one used by the Dutch brewing company Heineken.[29]

 

If I am not mistaken Ukrainian and Georgian law bans them altogether.

 

Also, as to propagandizing, there is something that can be considered as such in this game - official paint scheme for Pe-2 called "For the Great One" (sic!) with the inscription "For the Great Stalin". I'm sure that this is propagandizing communism and one could even say that it propagandizes genocide the same way as displaying swastika is considering propagandizing the Holocaust.

 

So yeah, game is definitely breaking some laws, at least in this case.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Ekaton

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

This would be applicable if it were the same old discussion about censoring the Hakenkreuz.

[Feathered_IV]

Didn't we hash this subject out in 2003?

[sinned]

Draft law..... what an idiot. Do you know definition of "draft"?

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.
 

Violations of this rule will result in the following:
First offense - 3 days ban on entry

Edited April 6, 2017 by BlackSix

[Ekaton]

Ah, internet lawyers. How did we ever manage before they became a thing?

I am strongly against banning any symbols and I think that it breaks principles of the freedom of speech, but since the game is trying to avoid breaking any laws concerning swastika, it might be breaking it with nazi symbolism and glorifying Stalin.

[seafireliv]

I believe it`s a mistake to ban any symbol on historical games. You don`t see it in movies. Also to ban such symbols as the Swastika actually gives it a greater power, not less.

[Ekaton]

Draft law..... what an idiot. Do you know definition of "draft"?

I mean it means that laws don't always outlaw only specific propagandizing but can outlaw them altogether, and also such a law might be introduced there and as far as I know it's introduced in several other countries such as Ukraine, Georgia or Slovakia.

 

Also, the game also seems to be propagandizing Stalin calling him "The Great One" and that is banned in many countries even where symbols themselves are not banned.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Ekaton

[Rolling_Thunder]

This would be applicable if it were the same old discussion about censoring the Hakenkreuz.

 

C'mon, you don't know this is "the same old discussion about censoring the Hakenkreuz"? really

[Scojo]

I actually like Klaus_Mann's symbols. Lets just do away with everything and make up our own history.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I actually like Klaus_Mann's symbols. Lets just do away with everything and make up our own history.

 

We're clearly already working on that.

[seafireliv]

We're clearly already working on that.

Astutely noticed.

[Ekaton]

I actually like Klaus_Mann's symbols. Lets just do away with everything and make up our own history.

His symbols are hilarious because they're true. We may pretend that there were no nazis or no communists ever, and that the Eastern Front was fought between morally neutral four bars and some red shape instead of two dictatorships, but that won't make it any less true.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Ekaton

[RAY-EU]

Looking what else in common !

 

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

The tu quoque is palpable in here...

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Swastika fanboys can use custom skins and enjoy them as much as they want, problem solved. You're welcome. 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

The tu quoque is palpable in here...

 

Yeah, the logical gymnastics are quite palpable.

[Ekaton]

Swastika fanboys can use custom skins and enjoy them as much as they want, problem solved. You're welcome.

 

This topic is not about swastika but communist symbolism which is banned in some countries and considered by some historians and governments to be as evil as swastika, and of course about legal problems concerning it. Edited April 6, 2017 by Ekaton

[Scojo]

This topic is not about swastika but communist symbolism which is banned in some countries and considered by some historians and governments to be as evil as swastika, and of course about legal problems concerning it.

The publisher decided the repercussions of having the swastika in the game outweigh removing said symbol. They have not come  to this conclusion on the communist symbols.

 

/thread

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

This topic is not about swastika but communist symbolism which is banned in some countries and considered by some historians and governments to be as evil as swastika, and of course about legal problems concerning it.

 

Some people only see/hear what they want to see/hear.

[Ekaton]

The publisher decided the repercussions of having the swastika in the game outweigh removing said symbol. They have not come to this conclusion on the communist symbols.

 

/thread

I can see that seeing those symbols in game. I don't support cheating history by removing symbols, I just raised a point that this game might break laws in some countries in this way too. Also, it clearly glorifies Stalin in the example mentioned before which is definitely illegal in many countries. Edited April 6, 2017 by Ekaton

[BlackSix]

Politics, off-topic discussions. Closed.