Contact Spotting

[TheCheese]

Not sure if this is just me, but I've been finding it very difficult to spot the enemy at any distance over about 1 km, particularly if I haven't made contact at all yet. I can pretty much never see the enemy in head-ons until he's already shooting without the aid of icons

 

I play on a 1920x1080  24" monitor at generally high/maximum graphics settings, with my view set to the largest FOV and my head a bit back in the cockpit. (though when I try zooming in/narrowing the FOV I still don't see them until they're close)

 

Am I just poor at spotting?

 

[BeastyBaiter]

The LoDs need a little adjustment I think. even fully zoomed in they don't really seem to appear until maybe 2-3km away. Fully zoomed out I can't see anything beyond about 1km. Default is maybe 1.5-2km.

[WindyCityZeke]

Yes, sighting the enemy or any aircraft is very difficult without icons right now.  It would be nice to have the same option as in ROF where distant planes appear as small dots.

[siipperi]

Yeah planes really need to spawn much farther off than they currently are. 2km is really small distance and should be 10+ km

 

Yes, sighting the enemy or any aircraft is very difficult without icons right now.  It would be nice to have the same option as in ROF where distant planes appear as small dots.

 

there already is the function with aircraft labels on.

[Igitur]

Planes are hard to spot and hard to track. They seem to vanish at the same distance as they appear.

[DoWSiq6Six]

Well, the first match I flew I hadnt realized the game defaulted to "normal", so I had distance markers on my target. I was surprised how clean & clear the plane was at 1k. Having spent much time in WarThunder, it was very welcoming. Took down the first guy, moved onto the next & ran out of ammo. He was damaged & leaking fuel but I decided to end the mission early. Second round I went to expert, didn't spot the guy til it was almost too late! Unfortunately, the LaGG ran out of ammo before the first enemy was downed. He was damaged & leaking fuel or water.

 

Anyways, after my previous experiences with FRB in WarThunder, I am happy. Tho I won't dispute any requests for improvement :D

[SKG51_robtek]

As in RoF the contacts are visible sooner if zoomed in, imo is that counterproductive, as usually a pilots searches the sky in wide angle

and concentrates on a contact (zooming in) when spotted.

The contact visibility problem was discussed to death for CloD, where it is working satisfactorly now with the TF patches.

[Wolger]

Extremely hard to spot. For >1km need to 100% zoom in to spot. Still able to see clearly plane markings at 500m and further. Losing track of the target when dogfighting.

[Vandal]

Agreed.  I hope we get the ROF system.  I also hope we get a key to enable and disable the vehicle icons.  (without hiding the whole HUD).

[LizLemon]

Contacts appear and disappear for me too at anything above 1km, and are almost always invisible beyond 1.5-2km. 

 

Its very bad. in its current state.

[SKG51_robtek]

Agreed.  I hope we get the ROF system.  I also hope we get a key to enable and disable the vehicle icons.  (without hiding the whole HUD).

I hope that we DONT get the RoF System, where one can see far contacts only zoomed, the smallest dot should be visible in wide FoV

at at least 5 to 6 km distance.

IMO, of course

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I hope that we DONT get the RoF System, where one can see far contacts only zoomed, the smallest dot should be visible in wide FoV

at at least 5 to 6 km distance.

IMO, of course

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Spotting a light plane is pretty routine at a mile to a mile and a half. It doesn't get difficult until two/two and a half miles during clear daylight Conditions. 4km seems about right for initial spotting and 1-2km for typing/ID'ing. Dark planes against heavy ground clutter or urban landscapes can make it a little more difficult of course.

 

Big airliners are pretty easy to spot at twelve miles. So, extrapolate as you like for medium and heavy bombers.

 

My experience in light planes and helos anyway.

[AndyHill]

Yes currently it's really hard to see planes. I've heard good things about about the lod model of Falcon BMS and it would be interesting to see how that works, but at least I'd like to see something like the dots & server adjustable icons from the latest Il-2 1946 derivatives. Currently the icons are pretty disturbing and you can see them through obstacles and presumably clouds, which is quite bad.

 

This is of course just an early alpha so it's interesting to see how things develop. Visibility is one of the most critical features in any sim, since it basically determines how the game plays, whether it's air combat or hide and seek. I would even go so far as to say that looking at the alpha with a lot of incomplete features, this is the only one so far that doesn't really show promise, which makes it stand out in a bit negative way. Anyway, let's see how things progress in the later versions, for now I of course can live with icons and focus on other aspects.

[Chill31]

I hope that we DONT get the RoF System, where one can see far contacts only zoomed, the smallest dot should be visible in wide FoV

at at least 5 to 6 km distance.

IMO, of course

 

I sort of agree with what you are saying here.  I think that aircraft should be visible in wide FOV, as you said, out to 5-6km.  For WW2 fighter sized aircraft, I find that I have to specifically scan the sky to find them in the 3-10 mile range, and it is highly dependent upon aspect angle.  For example, an aircraft flying directly toward you at 10 miles will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to spot.  To even have a hope of finding a single aircraft at that range, you would have to focus your visual scan ie "zoom" in fully.  In the 5 mile range, an aircraft flying straight at you is barely visible and requires a focused visual scan.  If it is a high aspect angle, it is relatively easy to spot with a focused visual scan.  Inside of 3 miles, you will probably not need a focused visual scan and can detect them with your peripheral vision to some extent.  Of course, all of this is dependent on background and camouflage. 

 

The part of what you said that I dont agree with is the "smallest dot" should be visible in wide FOV.  Smallest dot implies that the aircraft is farther than 5-6 km.

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

I think an easy way to fix this is to add metal glint to the aircraft as well as reflection of the sun from canopies. obviously it will need tweaking to make things more realistic, but it should help with spotting a/c from 1km out to 2.5km. 

[Chill31]

I think an easy way to fix this is to add metal glint to the aircraft as well as reflection of the sun from canopies. obviously it will need tweaking to make things more realistic, but it should help with spotting a/c from 1km out to 2.5km. 

1km is only a little over .5 miles...I dont think it should be difficult at all to spot another aircraft at that range.  Canopy glint would certainly not be required to spot them at that range. 

[HagarTheHorrible]

They particularly blend in to the white background haze, co-alt, until almost on top of you.  It would be great if they not only glinted, but also had a higher shine than the matt background, somewhat like the ice and rivers.  The Dev's were constantly showering us with firsts during the early months of RoF such as, if I remember correctly, cube mapping, moving clouds etc etc it would be nice if they could add in a first for situational awareness  that was equally ground breaking and innovative.  It also appears that there is an unfortunate combination of aliasing, aircraft size and profile that seems to make the aircraft less solid than it should actually be at certain mid distance ranges.  Busier ground clutter and tree shimmer don't help either.  I have my fingers crossed for the HD HD Rift and it's 3D effect sometime in the hopefully not to distant future. 

Edited December 7, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[9./JG52Gruber]

I hope that we DONT get the RoF System, where one can see far contacts only zoomed, the smallest dot should be visible in wide FoV

at at least 5 to 6 km distance.

IMO, of course

 

Strange. I have the exact opposite experience in RoF in that I can spot contacts from very far away. Much further than CloD or DCS so I was expecting dot range would not be an issue in BoS but for some reason it is different. 

[TheCheese]

Upon some more flying and fighting I've found that just a bit of practice and moving my screen a bit closer helps a lot, I can now dogfight successfully without any spotting help. You just have to keep your eyes glued on them. One thing that really impressed me actually was the way it becomes almost impossible to see the enemy if they go even just close to the sun, rather than still being visible until practically on it.

 

I think planes can actually be seen from fairly far away, but only if you're seeing the shadow-y side of their plane, hence making it darker. I guess the difficulty seeing might actually be realistic considering the brightness of the whole environment.

[VR-DriftaholiC]

It's very hard to spot them when they are a pixel big and I've seen the pixel size planes appear out of nowhere. I think the render distance could be improved. 

[andyw248]

It may be possible to see a plane from far away but only if you know exactly where it is. When flying small planes one would frequently get alerts from the controllers like: Traffic 3 o'clock, 3 miles, 2,000ft. Can you believe how hard it usually is to spot that traffic if it is another small plane? In particular, like somebody already said, when that traffic is lower and blends into the terrain. Bottomline - I wouldn't expect them easy to spot until they are maybe 1 or 2 miles out.

[TheCheese]

I made a short video just to directly show exactly what the situation is with visibility currently

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGJFiLKj6nE

 

As of now I'm starting to think that it may be somewhat realistic how difficult it is to spot enemies in such a bright environment. I look forward to seeing if the devs make any decisions about it

[II./JG27_Rich]

Seems pretty real to me. It may take some time getting use to it. When you're both coming at each other you're closing at 750 mph so there isn't to much time to waist.

[andyw248]

Great! So it basically becomes invisible once it's more than 1 kilometer away. That's wrong. Since you know exactly where it is you should be able to track it at least until it's 3 kilometers out.

[II./JG27_Rich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbgGp0C4Gis&feature=youtu.be

 

I like it but it will be really hard...Hard for all though.

Edited December 8, 2013 by II./JG27_Rich

[TheCheese]

Just flew the night missions again, particularly the one with the 109 that has friendlies in it, and actually with their nav-lights on they seem much more realistically visible than they were last access session, much improved. About as visible as a star from far away, and brighter up close. So at least they've got that right I think

[II./JG27_Rich]

In online dogfight servers it will be hard for all. It won't be AI's you'll be after. The only fear I have is that if people start to stress out they might add icons and that would be the end for me in that server. As soon as I see numbers on a plane I'm in front of a computer again if you know what I mean.

Edited December 8, 2013 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG27_Rich]

Cheese what do I have to do to make HD quality videos?

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

flightfx tweaking has worked wonders for me. but it is still deffinatly problematic

[Fifi]

At first i though it would be a lot easier to spot planes against white snow background...but in fact was half wrong, because plane small pixel is mixing/hiding together with far trees rendering.

All in all it remains hard to spot without icons, and there is still room for rendering improvment talking distance spot

[HagarTheHorrible]

Keeping tabs on multiple contacts will be extremely difficult. Without icons and novice A.I, fighting in single player is going to be extremely challenging as it stands. Without knowing that there are enemy aircraft about or flying around with constant max zoom they are going to be very difficult to spot as it stands.

 

A couple of problems that might make it harder than real life are depth of field that and movement, both of which are poorly represented on a typical monitor but are some of the primary factors in spotting things in real life. It was interesting to note that when people tested the Oculus Rift they said the sense of speed was greatly increased, they had a far better feeling of movement. The Rift may not be perfect in it's present incarnation but I think it will have a profound impact on combat flight sims with regard to these two major points. Another problem, with head on contacts is, because of their small cross section they often blend into the background more than they should because the wings, especially aliase badly and are therefore even less solid.

[TheCheese]

Cheese what do I have to do to make HD quality videos?

 

 

I just use Fraps to record the game video, which produces enormous files many gigabytes in size, though perfect in quality, and then I put it through Windows Movie Maker, and make a custom compression setting: 1920x1080 resolution, and generally 12000-15000 kilobytes per second. This'll make a much smaller file but should keep the video looking virtually the same

[SKG51_Joker]

I hope that we DONT get the RoF System, where one can see far contacts only zoomed, the smallest dot should be visible in wide FoV

at at least 5 to 6 km distance.

IMO, of course

 I totally agree here. In fight you hold your situational awareness by scanning the sky and tracking identified contacts.

Since you need to systematically jump from indentified hot sectors (where indentified contacts are) to check every other sector in sight to keept track of things and spot new threats you absolutely need two things:

A wide angle in your field of view

A clearly visible LOT of a contact in distances from 0 to ~ 4.5 mls

 

Being able to spot contacs ONLY in a narrow FOV (aka zoom)  is the worst option for me.

I recon it as a bad concept which likely  kills a vital necessary skill of a combat pilot.

Since that would cut my ability to fight in BoS I call it a BUG!

Edited December 8, 2013 by ZG15_Falke

[Panzerlang]

In online dogfight servers it will be hard for all. It won't be AI's you'll be after. The only fear I have is that if people start to stress out they might add icons and that would be the end for me in that server. As soon as I see numbers on a plane I'm in front of a computer again if you know what I mean.

 

This.^. Soon as I see icons I'm out. I don't care about the reasons, to me it's pure arcade and poor visibility affects everyone equally anyway.

[SKG51_Joker]

Upon some more flying and fighting I've found that just a bit of practice and moving my screen a bit closer helps a lot, I can now dogfight successfully without any spotting help. You just have to keep your eyes glued on them.

 

If you want to succeed in arial combat glueing your eye on a contact (aka tunnel view) will be your certain death. You will lose your sitational awareness and get killed by an enemy you did not even realise he was there!

This is the main reason why I think spotting in narrow FOV is a weard concept.

[II./JG27_Rich]

I just use Fraps to record the game video, which produces enormous files many gigabytes in size, though perfect in quality, and then I put it through Windows Movie Maker, and make a custom compression setting: 1920x1080 resolution, and generally 12000-15000 kilobytes per second. This'll make a much smaller file but should keep the video looking virtually the same

Thanks I have fraps also I try using it again.

[FlatSpinMan]

Still early days. Who knows what's coming. I must say I thought they'd be easier to spot, given that in RoF I found it much easier to spot planes without icons than in IL2, due to reflections and good distant LODS.

[Panzerlang]

Thanks I have fraps also I try using it again.

 

I've given up using FRAPS. Not only does it produce massive files, it also impacts very badly on FPS. I'm now using Bandicam:

 

http://www.bandicam.com/downloads/

 

The free version gives you only ten minutes of recording time per button-press and displays a text-logo at the top of the screen but considering how greedy they are with their price for the registered version I can put up with that. No FPS impact to mention and tiny file sizes.

[Veteran66]

the contact spotting must be better i see the dots at 1500m it is to low 

in the dogfight mission we have good weather with sun and no clouds, so we must spotting the enemy at 10000 m