Best way to improve deflection shooting?

[JG13_opcode]

My gunnery sucks.  What is the best way to practice for rapid improvement?

[unreasonable]

Same as anything else, I do not think there are any short-cuts:

 

1) Check your theory - I found this not too technical:  Horrido.doc

 

2) Practice - avoiding last second adjustments: pick your firing spot, fly pipper smoothly on to it, fire burst, observe results. 

 

And if all else fails, use a plane with more guns!  

[Pail]

Light conditions where you can see your tracers clearly certainly help....for practice purposes.

 

I was wondering if reshade or sweet fx can make tracers more visible ?

Edited March 26, 2017 by Pail

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Slightly longer lead, slightly longer burst. As Unreasonable said, steady, don't track. Pick your spot and let the opponent walk into your rounds. You will get a feel for the sweet spot over time and judge crossing speeds better as well.

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

My gunnery sucks.  What is the best way to practice for rapid improvement?

It's all a matter of practice, for wing mounted guns you need to adjust your converge setting [ the point in the sky where you bullets meet ] i have mine set  at  250 m, but it's all a matter of choice, I think you will find that in most dog fights in single player your fighter opponent [AI] will oblige by pulling either left or  right in a tight curve. Get in close as you can, and i find that just as the target is disappearing just below your reflector sight mounting[ below the nose] give him a short burst with all guns. I'm sure that most of the experienced pilots flying this sim will agree that at first it's not easy.

 

So practice, practice, and i'm sure you will get the hang of it !     Good Luck  

[Gambit21]

Practice against the AI - a special mission with friendlies (for you to shoot) just circling a waypoint would be useful for you.

 

 

I'm out of practice - my shooting is horrible right now.

[JG13_opcode]

2) Practice

 

for practice purposes

 

It's all a matter of practice

 

Maybe I wasn't clear.  I know that the way to improve is to practice, but not all forms of practice are created equal.  The manner in which you practice surely makes a difference, just like it does with other skills.  If I want to practice putting, I don't head over to the driving range or the practice sand bunker.

 

If anyone knows a good way to set up snapshots over and over again (and then I guess I'd evaluate success by looking at the tracks), then that's what I'm looking for.  Setting up repeatable scenarios in air combat is not particularly easy.

 

Practice against the AI - a special mission with friendlies (for you to shoot) just circling a waypoint would be useful for you.

 

 

I'm out of practice - my shooting is horrible right now.

 

That's not a bad idea.  I hate shooting enemy AI because they always do that super-unrealistic inhuman maneuver to stay out of your crosshairs.  How do I get them to circle a waypoint?

Edited March 26, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[RobCarter3]

If you need to, you can enable the aim assist in your difficulty settings and practice in quick match against AI to help you get some rough bearings for leading shots. I know this helped me get adjusted quickly coming from ROF. It also helped me figure out the ballistics of the Breda 12.7s as I've been working on the MC.202.

[Haza]

Berloga Server!

[unreasonable]

Maybe I wasn't clear.  I know that the way to improve is to practice, but not all forms of practice are created equal.  The manner in which you practice surely makes a difference, just like it does with other skills.  If I want to practice putting, I don't head over to the driving range or the practice sand bunker.

 

If anyone knows a good way to set up snapshots over and over again (and then I guess I'd evaluate success by looking at the tracks), then that's what I'm looking for.  Setting up repeatable scenarios in air combat is not particularly easy.

 

 

That's not a bad idea.  I hate shooting enemy AI because they always do that super-unrealistic inhuman maneuver to stay out of your crosshairs.  How do I get them to circle a waypoint?

 

Using friendly aircraft in RoF to practice shooting - and test DM mods etc - was fairly easy as you could use the QMB to set the enemy flight to zero planes - so no need to use the editor.  You have 1 plane in your own flight and as many as you want in the second friendly flight, which you can then use as targets.  Not sure if the BoX QMB will let you do that.   

[Monostripezebra]

[Asgar]

general rule of thumb that works for me... lead more than you think :D

[Wulf]

It's all a matter of practice, for wing mounted guns you need to adjust your converge setting [ the point in the sky where you bullets meet ] i have mine set  at  250 m, but it's all a matter of choice, I think you will find that in most dog fights in single player your fighter opponent [AI] will oblige by pulling either left or  right in a tight curve. Get in close as you can, and i find that just as the target is disappearing just below your reflector sight mounting[ below the nose] give him a short burst with all guns. I'm sure that most of the experienced pilots flying this sim will agree that at first it's not easy.

 

So practice, practice, and i'm sure you will get the hang of it !     Good Luck  

 

 

In reality it doesn't matter if your guns are in the wings or in troughs along the nose, you'll have to harmonize them to converge at a predetermined range.  MGs and auto-cannons aren't lasers.  The projectiles follow a trajectory.  At ranges on either side of your determined convergence they will typically be either high or low of your target, no matter where the weapons are mounted on the aircraft.

 

As far as learning deflection shooting I'd suggest using the 'aim assist feature in single player.  It's very useful IMO.

 

I'd also suggest you goog the RAF booklet 'Bag the Hun'.  Probably the best, easy to use reference out there.  It is/was available to download from Mission 4 Today not that long ago (it's also available here on the forum somewhere).  It shows you how to use your reflector sight to calculate angle-off.

 

In the end, however, as others have noted, it just comes down to practice.

[gnomechompsky]

Practice against AI using aim assist is correct answer.

[von_Tom]

 

What Gnomechompsky says.

 

And there is a lot of difference between aircraft so do this with each one.

 

Von Tom

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Build an single player mission with ai bots flying in circles and spawning endlessly after shot down. You begin in air with unlimited ammo and practice hour a day - you must made progress. Then next hour at Berloga. You can read RAF and Luftwafe manual and watch YouTube videos about it from older Il2, and watch how mr x is shooting. To master you need Time and dedication like all things you do in life, no need for talent for that.

[seafireliv]

general rule of thumb that works for me... lead more than you think :D

Agreed. I`m always short when I think I`m on, but if I lead longer, to my surprise, I`ve hit. A lot of it is literally judging blind and estimating and firing in bursts.

 

Against Human fighters trailing me I would often dip since I`d guess or see they were aiming `blind` and this was my chance to lose them.

[fjacobsen]

As others sais...

Lead more than You think

Use short bursts and then lead less and less, while giving short bursts until You find the spot whare You hit - then memorise the position.

 

Practice, practise, practise and remember what You memorised

[3./JG15_Kampf]

I also have difficulty with angles off. It seems that the 20mm Germans fall a lot in their trajectory while the Russian 20mm seems to follow a more linear trajectory. I have practiced a lot in Berloga and a tip: Always shoot before you imagine to be correct. I came from il2 1946, and found it harder at the beginning deflection here. I think Ping high on servers should also influence

Edited March 26, 2017 by JAGER_Kampf

[Fortis_Leader]

Practice against AI using aim assist is correct answer.

 

I'd say so too. Having a "cheat sheet" like I got with planes that had a computer telling me how to lead (F-86 in DCS, F-16 in BMS) really does make it more second nature.

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

1 hour of aim assist with unlimited ammo and 4 beers. your welcome

[JG13_opcode]

Using friendly aircraft in RoF to practice shooting - and test DM mods etc - was fairly easy as you could use the QMB to set the enemy flight to zero planes - so no need to use the editor.  You have 1 plane in your own flight and as many as you want in the second friendly flight, which you can then use as targets.  Not sure if the BoX QMB will let you do that.

In the QMB here you can't set the enemy flight to 0 planes, and the aim assist doesn't work on friendly planes.

 

Practice against AI using aim assist is correct answer.

Aim assist sure helps visualizing it, but the AI have that super bullshit magical "stay out of their crosshair" maneuver that no human I've ever played against since 2008 has ever been capable of. So I just find the AI to be 110% unrealistic and I find it impossible to practice high-speed passes in the 190 since the AI can just dodge your aim with its superhuman abilities. Any pointers?

[unreasonable]

On the AI point - they do not always pull those stunts. See recent movie for examples of AI 109 getting shot down without the super jiggly bit.  That was done using "Ivan's War" SP campaign - it may be that they have a lot more to worry about there so they do not always "see" you.

 

If QMB does not work you may just have to learn how to make a basic mission in the editor to get your practice dummies, setting all the targets to your own nationality. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by unreasonable

[fjacobsen]

I would not use aim assist, since You tend to focus more on the marker than what You actually are doing.

Get closer to the enemy, at least within 200m, but better 150m.

In sharp turns he might get below Your nose.

Try to shoot only the moments he is flying straight and keep Your aircraft in plane with his ie. flight attitude equals his.

 

Before becomming a good marksman You must become familiar with Your aircraft and it´s handling.

You must learn to be able to follow Your enemy through his maneuvres and keep Yourself on his six.

During the initial engagement use lag pursuit to close in on him and stay on his six.

Only use lead pursuit if it is required inorder to get better a angle on him or when shooting.

 

One way is to do the opposite of what I described before....

Point Your nose so that he just are visible below Your nose, then shoot as You pull back on the stick to make him disappers below the nose, then ease off the turn to make him visible again and gauge the damage.

Use short, but frequent bursts.

 

And again - simply practice - practise. You cannot learn this by reading books.

The best reading to prepare for practicing is about basic fighter maneuvering

Edited March 26, 2017 by fjacobsen

[JG13_opcode]

You have a squad, JG13, can you not practice with them? If you don't have your own server, some squads share their practice servers or just use a public one when quiet.

Yeah we don't have a server, and we're North American so we ping like 200 to Berloga.

 

 

I would not use aim assist, since You tend to focus more on the marker than what You actually are doing.

I notice this as well. It's hard to focus on the Revi and not on the little red thing.

 

 

Get closer to the enemy, at least within 200m, but better 150m.

In sharp turns he might get below Your nose.

Try to shoot only the moments he is flying straight and keep Your aircraft in plane with his ie. flight attitude equals his.

 

Before becomming a good marksman You must become familiar with Your aircraft and it´s handling.

You must learn to be able to follow Your enemy through his maneuvres and keep Yourself on his six.

During the initial engagement use lag pursuit to close in on him and stay on his six.

Only use lead pursuit if it is required inorder to get better a angle on him or when shooting.

 

This is good advice, but what I want to practice are high-deflection snapshots and not tracking shots. The Fw 190 is not well suited to following people through maneuvers. I'd rather sledgehammer them as I zip by. It's hard to set this sort of thing up in a repeatable manner.

Edited March 26, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Just go on a normal df sever as u will get plenty of action quickly

[DD_Arthur]

general rule of thumb that works for me... lead more than you think :D

 

Still the best advice so far.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

My teammate is better at this technique than I am but it is as valid in BoX as it was in '46. It's not strictly high offset, though, he sets the tracking shot up as nearly so for many of these.

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[JG13_opcode]

My teammate is better at this technique than I am but it is as valid in BoX as it was in '46. It's not strictly high offset, though, he sets the tracking shot up as nearly so for many of these.

 

Yes, exactly. This is what I want to practice in a repeatable fashion.

[purK]

Fly around in Berloga using only the 37mm on the LaGG. You're going to miss a lot and get incredibly frustrated, but once you get the hang of it, deflection shooting in any plane should be a breeze.

[Leaf]

Here's what I'd do: 

Turn on the the aim-assist in the options. Then map your gun button to the same button you use to pause or slow down time. 

 

The result will be that you know where to aim correctly due to the aim assist, but every time you fire, it pauses the game so you can analyse where you need to aim in a particular situation.

 

You'll be quite surprised at how "off" most of your shots are - or at least I am haha

[LLv34_Temuri]

Use the mission editor to set up enemy aircraft flying to waypoints but make sure their focus is set totally to the waypoint (can't remember the setting name) 

Priority: High

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Berloga Server!

 

+1,000,000

Here's what I'd do: 

 

Turn on the the aim-assist in the options. Then map your gun button to the same button you use to pause or slow down time. 

 

The result will be that you know where to aim correctly due to the aim assist, but every time you fire, it pauses the game so you can analyse where you need to aim in a particular situation.

 

You'll be quite surprised at how "off" most of your shots are - or at least I am haha

Very clever, Leaf!

Edited March 27, 2017 by JG19_DendroAspis

[Cpt_Cool]

+1,000,000

Very clever, Leaf!

 

That is really interesting. I bet you could also map the "show aim assist" to toggle with the same button. That way, it will hide the aim assist until you "fire" which will pause and display where you really aught to be aiming.

[JG13_opcode]

That is really interesting. I bet you could also map the "show aim assist" to toggle with the same button. That way, it will hide the aim assist until you "fire" which will pause and display where you really aught to be aiming.

 

DAMN.

 

Nice idea.  Trying this.

[216th_Jordan]

One thing I have not read so far: Zoom out completely. That way you will have a better awareness of your and your opponents position.

[Guest deleted@30725]

Turn on the the aim-assist in the options.

 

I don't pause it like you do, but when I first started playing again I decided to turn it on as I'm not a season flightsimmer. It's good for muscle memory and getting used to shooting at certain points in the air before the plane meets the bullets.

 

Coming from a first person game perspective that shooting around the plane so the enemy flies into bullets is really un-natural and takes a while to get used to.

 

After a while you will get used to most angles so when you turn it off or go online you'll still imagine the aim assist marker as you set up targets.

[1./KG4_OldJames]

Just a quick note: if you are at 90 degrees to the horizon, your bullets\shells will fall to one side and not downward. Simple, but I kept forgetting it.

"downward" in relation to the aircraft's horizontal axis.

[JG13_opcode]

I don't pause it like you do, but when I first started playing again I decided to turn it on as I'm not a season flightsimmer. It's good for muscle memory and getting used to shooting at certain points in the air before the plane meets the bullets.

 

Coming from a first person game perspective that shooting around the plane so the enemy flies into bullets is really un-natural and takes a while to get used to.

 

After a while you will get used to most angles so when you turn it off or go online you'll still imagine the aim assist marker as you set up targets.

Depends on the game.  Back in 2001 or so I was really into the Tribes games which were first-person shooters but with projectile weaponry and jetpacks.  Takes a lot of skill to hit someone in midair, just as in combat flight sims.  For me it's just a matter of dialling in the proper amount to lead the target by.

[Rjel]

Practice against the AI - a special mission with friendlies (for you to shoot) just circling a waypoint would be useful for you.

 

That's always been my method too.