9./JG27

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Hi David.

 

Do you use stabilizer during turns?

 

I used to have stabilizer set to the same axis as pitch (on my joystick) but it sometimes messed with my aiming and I had to push down most of the time to keep nose level and pick up speed.

 

Without stabilizer on the same axis and with it set to -71% (nose down) I can get a lot of speed in a short dive but pulling up is near impossible.

 

What's your solution? Do you use stabilizer during the fight or do you keep it at the same settings?

[9./JG27DavidRed]

right now i think i dont have the trim even mapped to my joystick...i never touch it. and this "stabilizer exploit" so many talk about is something i couldnt care less about. i wouldnt want to fly a plane that trims into the direction im pulling the stick, as this would just get you into serious trouble in turns and also completely mess up your aim i would imagine. also, it would feel completely stupid to pull on the stick and keep it in a certain position and watch the plane pulling tighter and tighter...i think i couldnt fly that way and definitely dont want to...having said that, there is no fix for this exploit, even if the devs make it impossible to map the trim to the same axis as the elevator, there will still be joystick programs out there(like joytokey/target/ch control manager)  which will still allow for exactly that...it would be a waste of time to "fix" it, as they will not be able to avoid it being exploited by people who like to fly that way.i think, its no exploit anyway, as people just handicap themselves this way.

Edited May 18, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Thanks for your answer.

 

What's your trim setting then? Do you keep it on 0 or do you set any other value.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

yeah, i never touch it, so i assume its set to 0.

[9./JG27MAD-MM]

They should Remove Davids Trim would be 50 kg lighter for better Turning Capability...

Stock is somewhere -33 % in Tech Help and that's he use... 

Edited May 18, 2017 by 9./JG27MAD-MM

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Cheers.

 

Even more impressed with your flying now.

 

Stabilizer exploit would mess with your energy but it let's you pull some crazy turns from high speed.

 

I would advise you to try it out just to have an idea what can be achieved by players using it.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

MAD, turn off that arcade tech help already...

Banzai, i really cant imagine that this would help, and even if it does, i know i wouldnt like it...in real life my plane doesnt trim if i pull on the stick, so i dont want to have it on the pc either.

having said that, i know that a proper trimmed out plane will go slightly faster and i probably should start to actually use the trim, but i dont worry about a few kph more or less.

Edited May 18, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[HR_Tumu]

Sry David.

 

Only was saying, very good performance on bf.... last time i was on berloga , you shot me down many times.... The I resolve to continue running if i see your light brown skin   

 

hehehehe

[9./JG27MAD-MM]

Cheers.

 

Even more impressed with your flying now.

 

Stabilizer exploit would mess with your energy but it let's you pull some crazy turns from high speed.

 

I would advise you to try it out just to have an idea what can be achieved by players using it.

I think David have the same opinion as me, exploit the Trim or Flaps or reduce Power what you see from many Players give you possibility your enemy is overshooting you...(some Famous Mustang Roll in DCS also...) 

Limited afterwards extreme you offensive capability because your enemy have much more energy and can re engage by will...

Edited May 18, 2017 by 9./JG27MAD-MM

[9./JG27DavidRed]

RedEye_Tumu, yeah i am sorry that i forgot how to speak spanish after 14years of not using it....only a few sentences and words i still know...really sad as i actually love that language, but google translator actually made me understand your post!

oh well, to use that skin on berloga is really brutal...people know that its me or us, and on purpose go for a hunt and ignore nearby enemies   so usually we find ourselves surrounded by enemies...its a tough ride with that skin, but on the other hand it gives us maximum training which is good, even if it means we get shot down several times....

Edited May 18, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

David, you don't need to use it because you fly great without it anyways.

 

I was suggesting trying it for 'scientific' reasons .

[9./JG27DavidRed]

David, you don't need to use it because you fly great without it anyways.

 

I was suggesting trying it for 'scientific' reasons .

yeah i understand...but what exactly is that advantage you get? just turning tighter? or does the trim actually move faster? if its the former, than i dont think its an advantage, as MAD says, turning tighter just means burning more energy, if its the latter, then its something the devs actually could fix and make sure that the speed at which the trimwheel moves is similar regardless of which technique you use to trim your aircraft...

Edited May 18, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Mostly tighter turns at high speeds.

 

Diving at 600 km/h and faster and then pulling up instantly getting on enemy's six if he's pulling up to avoid being bounced.

 

Much tighter horizontal turns.

 

Without this exploit I am forced to go past the target zoom away , climb and reangage. With the exploit I can turn so tight that I can get on Yaks tail straight away . Very surprising for the enemy.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

but this would also be possible with the trim assigned to buttons or a different axis, instead of assigning it to the same joystick axis the elevator is mapped to, correct?

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Yes. I think I will set it to hat on joystick.

 

It can help finish someone quick if you know he's alone and you're not worried about bleeding energy.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

ok...then i really think its no exploit as so many call it, but just a simplification...just like its possible to set rudder on a twist stick or on a keyboard...things like automixture or automatic fuel managment are more concerning i think.

Edited May 18, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Yes but it would be hard to synchronize it together. BTW fixing that exploit is just one liner not to much work. Using external programs is not so effective and easy as go to in game menu. Btw I do test on yak to be able use trims on analog axies and was not satisfied how it works through external program.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

by all means, let them fix it..it will not affect my flying anyway.

but if its possible to do the same with just normal trim on a different axis or buttons, then people will still be able to pull these manouvers...so it will still be the same and obviously its just what the aircraft is capable of doing given that the aoa limits are correctly modeled.

[E69_geramos109]

F4 is a beast on turnfight but it change when i am on a server like wings or ded where i am full fuel and i can not control the plane hanging it with the prop. Then is so sensible to rudder, ailerons and torque and you can stall quite easyly

[LLv34_adexu]

Great barrels.. and snapshots! I don't get it how you do it with this FM. When I try to do barrels as I do in other sims, in this game I just get shot down.  

[9./JG27DavidRed]

yeah i feel the same...with this FM, its the hardest sim to shake somebody with barrel rolls.it seems that even if you use rudder to put yourself aside on a different path, most of the time the yaks still dont have any trouble to stay behind you even if they dont give any rudder input at all.i have many tracks where i can see that the majority of them doesnt even care for any rudder inputs, yet they can point their nose on you and stay behind you...i hope this will become better with their announced FM patch.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

True you don't need rudder to much to fly coordinated in turns - there is not enough adverse yaw IMHO . I know many aces who said same and some do not use rudder pedals and do amazing aerobics (yes it can be trained but anyways it's not the same as rudder pedals). BTW I think also high speed control is to easy on some airplanes - elevator in high speed dives is to responsive to inputs.

 

BTW Also I read or heard somewhere that do to asymmetrical release of 109 slats it was dangerous to do thigh high AOA turns - but this I can't image how it would change gameplay if true... Any way I don't know if it was true and how it would be dangerous?

Edited May 19, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[9./JG27DavidRed]

yes...a squadmate who was flying russian planes exclusively in the past told me about the flying without rudder on russian planes...i couldnt believe it until i tried...there is no or hardly any adverse yaw in the yak FM at least. it will pretty much stay coordinated at all times without the use of rudder...which is just plain wrong. so i really hope this will be fixed with their FM patch...

 

and yes, the slats give lift hence drag. if released asymmetrical when not flying coordinated there should be a noticeable effect, and thats what many veterans told, including Günther Rall for example.

and im not completely sure, but i think, in the 109F4 this is simulated possibly? im sure everybody who tried the 109 more than a few times knows the sudden drop out of the turn and stall to the right, when attempting a left hand turn, and not flying coordinated. this is really severe and often even ends in a flat spin...but i dont know if its really because of the slats.

on the other hand the slats were installed to keep the ailerons effective even in stall conditions...many pilots claim about the awesome low speed handling characteristics of the 109...Mark Hanna comes to my mind.

Edited May 19, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[216th_Jordan]

yes...a squadmate who was flying russian planes exclusively in the past told me about the flying without rudder on russian planes...i couldnt believe it until i tried...there is no or hardly any adverse yaw in the yak FM at least. it will pretty much stay coordinated at all times without the use of rudder...which is just plain wrong. so i really hope this will be fixed with their FM patch...

 

 

Seriously no If you cut turns in the yak you need to work a lot with the rudder, you saw it today The yak is easier for beginners due to its compact size and soft controls but it is lost against a well flown 109. Airframes are different, try different soviet planes, they are  all quite different but its quite tough to aim with all of them. Its a thing of agility versus stability.

 

What is wrong though is that you can about control any tipstall in the 109 with the use of rudder. Another thing you can do is actually roll when it would not be possible due to rudder-roll-coupling.

Edited May 19, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[9./JG27DavidRed]

lol, seriously? dont know what yak are you flying, but the yak i have installed flies perfectly without the need of rudder.

[216th_Jordan]

lol, seriously? dont know what yak are you flying, but the yak i have installed flies perfectly without the need of rudder.

Believe what you want to believe.

[9./JG27DavidRed]

yeah same to you

[E69_geramos109]

i have foulght both planes quite enought and is true that the yak seems prefectly trim on rudder on all the situations. Of corse if you want to fight as best you will use the rudder but is like some forces are not there. Even on the edje of the stall in a vertical clim you have neutral behabeur on the ruder axis and you can confortably aim while in the 109 you have to fight against torque, and angle to keep it climbing. On the same time that lack of rudder need make a difficult time for me to aim properly used to the 109 rudder technique. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by E69_geramos109

[216th_Jordan]

Please, disable your yaw axis and try again. Just because the 109 is the hardest in that respect it doesn't mean that others don't experience the effects.

[E69_geramos109]

Lets see the future fm changers on that point becuase is well know that there are some isues with the rudder on some planes. I would like to have a more complex fm on all the planes so you have to be fine to take the max performance with that. 

[KokS]

David hi! A little oftop )))! I'm sorry! Here's a look at my place. Throw a couple of my photos very interesting!?

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/1893-nashi-kabiny/?p=320745

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29082-sell-kg-13-metal-monoblock-hotas/

 

David hi! A little oftop )))! I'm sorry! Here's a look at my place. Throw a couple of my photos very interesting!?

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/1893-nashi-kabiny/?p=320745

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29082-sell-kg-13-metal-monoblock-hotas/

Edited May 25, 2017 by KokS

[9./JG27DavidRed]

woah, nice setup and nice stick! what kind of stick is it??

 

because you asked, here is my stick...this was when i put the ch-fighterstick together with the msffb2...

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

MSFFB2 despite it age is great joystick. I was thinking of upgrade mine. David do you have all CH buttons working in new grip?

[9./JG27DavidRed]

yes all buttons do work,...this was the main reason i put the grip on the stick...well this and the fact that the msffb2 grip was made by chinese children for children i suppose...way too small to feel comfortable in my hands.

i just put the ch electronics into the msffb2 base. so windows and all games see it as two seperate sticks. the benefit of this is, that you dont really need to have a clue about circuits and so on, and another plus is, that you can still use the ch-control manager software if you want to, to program macros and the like.

Edited May 25, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Interesting, Good stuff.

[LLv24_Zami]

Awesome flying and nice videos!

 

But do you fly anything else than 109?

[Monostripezebra]

 

Sry David.

 

Only was saying, very good performance on bf.... last time i was on berloga , you shot me down many times.... The I resolve to continue running if i see your light brown skin  

 

hehehehe

 

 

running away and comeing back with bigger bombs is a historically accurate strategy to deal with skill and better planes ;=)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xJ8V4gaYc4

[9./JG27DefaultFace]

Historical accuracy has no place in video games!   Balls to the wall and stick in your gut, that's the way to fly! 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Historical accuracy has no place in video games! Balls to the wall and stick in your gut, that's the way to fly!

Or stall , btw I wonder how you can pull out thigh turns in BOS but you can't do the same in DCS without lose control...

[9./JG27MAD-MM]

BTW In DCS the K4 have 500 kg more Weight on the Ripps then the F4, So should be not turn that Tight...

And difference in the FM much overall noticeable DCS Spit would be struggle also again BOS Yak