How to land La-5?

[D.B.Cooper]

After touch down the La-5 is tuning around. How can i prevent it from doing this?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I find it helps to provide short bursts of engine power with fast, preemptive responses on the pedals to counter torque.

[Scojo]

Throttle bursts work, but I personally have a harder time with that.

 

Upon firm touchdown, I return my engine throttle to about 20% while braking and using rudder to stay aligned. Then once I feel like the plane is only being pulled down the runway by the engine, I slowly drop throttle to zero.

[A_radek]

Throttle bursts work, but I personally have a harder time with that.

 

Upon firm touchdown, I return my engine throttle to about 20% while braking and using rudder to stay aligned. Then once I feel like the plane is only being pulled down the runway by the engine, I slowly drop throttle to zero.

I do the exact same. Works well. I also keep some up elevator til reaching full stop, out of habit, not sure it's needed but feels safer while braking.

[FTC_Etherlight]

I keep the throttle at about 15-20% while braking, works wonders for me.

[Scojo]

I do the exact same. Works well. I also keep some up elevator til reaching full stop, out of habit, not sure it's needed but feels safer while braking.

Same here. It does seem to help.

 

Keeping back on the stick will add more pressure to the tail wheel, which will help keep the aircraft straight while rolling. This is the same reason why keeping the stick back while taking off in the Mig-3 is important.

 

It also has the added benefit of letting you brake earlier without your nose pitching down into the ground.

[Riderocket]

You should try landing the nieuport

[Finkeren]

You should try landing the nieuport

Going back to RoF after BoX I find landing any plane in RoF incredibly easy.

[Finkeren]

@OP: The important thing is never to cut throttle during the rollout but actually apply a little extra power after touchdown. This is actually very much in keeping with what we know about the La-5. I've read several accounts mentioning the dangers of cutting throttle during landing.

[Riderocket]

Going back to RoF after BoX I find landing any plane in RoF incredibly easy.

It is, but the nieuport always had a tendency to break the lower wing from spinning. IMO its the hardest plane to land in RoF (more so then the Gotha)

 

I would also like to see how taxing would be like in the P-39 and A-20

[Finkeren]

I would also like to see how taxing would be like in the P-39 and A-20

Tricycle gears are gonna be a breeze.

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

What works for me (in order on final approach):

50% RPM

15% Throttle

 

Full open outer cowls

 

flare up at ~200kph

flaps to 10%

 

Touchdown below 170kph

 

Chop brakes and rudder

100% flaps

Full elevator (stick pulled towards you)

 

0% RPM and throttle

 

 

The main reason you'll ground loop is because you're braking too hard at too high speed.  So as long as you go easy on the brakes and use drag (flaps, elevator, cowls) more than brakes to slow down, it shouldn't be an issue.

[D.B.Cooper]

Thank you all for the replies!

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

I just hold the stick back as I'm rolling out..

[unreasonable]

It is, but the nieuport always had a tendency to break the lower wing from spinning. IMO its the hardest plane to land in RoF (more so then the Gotha)

 

I would also like to see how taxing would be like in the P-39 and A-20

 

I agree about the Nieuport (11 or 17).  I found that the best way way to reduce ground looping is turn off the engine at 2,000ft and glide it in RFC style, taking care to be straight into the wind. Not really a viable method here even if it worked in theory, due to fixed runway alignments and the necessity to taxi after landing.

[Bullets]

I just hold the stick back as I'm rolling out..

 

This ^ , All these guys saying you need throttle on the landing are just wrong, you don't need it at all. Get the tail down and pull the stick back and make strong corrections with your rudder to keep that nose straight, remember the slower you are the less effective you rudder so don't be afraid to use full rudder if you really need to. I can't remember the last time I ground looped a Lagg or La5 and I never have to use throttle to assist the landing 

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

This ^ , All these guys saying you need throttle on the landing are just wrong, you don't need it at all. 

Yeah I don't agree with the throttle bursts and such.  Not something I find necessary at all.  I do leave it cracked at 10-15% and ~50% RPM to give some sort of rudder authority mid landing but not necessary by any means.  Just my personal preference.

[seafireliv]

I`m having to read these posts all again just to refamiliarise myself with the aircraft!

[Guest deleted@30725]

Thank you all for the replies!

 

So what worked for you in the end?

 

I'd not landed for ages and did standard landings only to be really annoyed.

 

I ended up doing about 8 - 10 landings from 300m and I read the other ideas about using power and they're right.

 

Between 0 and 20 throttle it spins. Trying to use the brakes and rudder does nothing. Just trying to roll to a stop causes it to spin. Without engine and roll to stop it spins.

 

My golden number was around 35 - 40% throttle according to the overlay text and holding it on the brakes till it's nearly stopped and then slowly backing off and it seems to work. You could try less, but after 10 landings and the game doing all kinds of weird stuttering I'd had enough.

 

Note - you have to make sure you get a good landing in the first place otherwise you need to get it stable and straight  using more power on the ground before taking the power down

 

Over 40% throttle causes you to gain too much speed to slow down. It goes against most of the other planes, but I do love flying the La-5, I'd just not had a reason to land it recently.

[Asgar]

step 1) decrease speed

step 2) decrease altitude

step 3) ???
step 4) success

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Im a strong believer in not using any throttle after landing. I just dance like a crazy person on the rudders and all is fine. The reason for me not wanting to use any power is because it will increase ur landing role which I have been taught is very dangerous.

[Guest deleted@30725]

step 1) decrease speed

step 2) decrease altitude

step 3) ???

step 4) success

 

You forgot to put the wheels down

[fjacobsen]

Prop should be at max RPM in case You need to do a go-around

Throttle I normally keep at 20-25% until getting below 20 km/h

Stick fully back moments before touching down and keeps ithere to help the tailwheel becomming effective.

Then it´s all about dancing the rudder and using wheelbrakes in short bursts.

Use the turn coordinator needle to tell in which direction to apply rudder - "step on the needle".

[Bullets]

All you guys keeping throttle on are making me facepalm, you seriously don't need too! It only increases your ground roll..  

[unreasonable]

They are trying to maintain airflow over the tail surfaces, I think, using propwash. Also by slowing down more slowly, you increase the reaction time available for the rudder inputs. If you plant the plane accurately near the end of the runway you will have it's entire length for your ground-roll, so that should not be a problem.

 

Having said all that I could hardly ever land the LaGG without a ground loop, either at idle or with some power on......

[216th_Jordan]

It also always helps to pull back on the stick to increase pressure on the tailwheel.

[Scojo]

After a lot of landings, you can land without any power, yes. However early on when you're getting used to everything you'll have a tendency to slightly overcompensate with rudder when your plane is slowing down in its roll and once you do that in this plane, it has a good chance of looping even if you throw full rudder the opposite direction.

 

I'm also not sure why people are so afraid of using the runway provided. Is there some kind of worm from tremors down there that will pop out of the ground and eat your aircraft if you don't stop in time while landing or get off the ground quick enough during take-off?

 

Everyone I see online acts this way

 

If you're worried about other planes coming in to land, then just move to the left or right of the runway. In some planes, the areas beside the runway are also just fine for landing/take-off or rolling to a stop.

[Bullets]

Okay so this was extremely rushed I was wayyy to fast/high (Hense the side slip) and my roundout/flare was way too aggressive causing a really long hold off before touchdown.   I had 0% throttle for the entire landing and all I needed to do was keep my stick back and use the rudder to keep the nose going straight. Easy peasy.   Adding a crosswind and that just means adding a bit more rudder to keep the nose straight.

My shadowplay picked up the music I was listening too so apologies aha   

 

https://youtu.be/C9F4ux2g8fc

[Guest deleted@30725]

Yep, Bullets and other peoples suggestion works fine, but the plane punishes you for making a poor landing. You get used to in the pit though eventually. I tried myself to be sure and as follows.

 

How to do it

 

I got it 0% power, stick full back and modulate the rudder to keep it straight and no loop after my second attempt - brakes on pretty much the whole time till stop

 

I made a mistake on my third run by coming in too fast (because testing) and broke the prop, but because both the front wheels (closely followed by the third) had touched the ground at the same time with stick full back then modulate rudder to keep it straight it stayed straight to a stop - worth knowing if you do loose your engine in flight. - brakes on pretty much the whole time till stop

 

The final run I chose to miss the runway and landed flat and straight in the dirt  next to the runway 0% power, stick full back, modulate rudder and no loop. - brakes on pretty much the whole time till stop

 

How NOT to do it.

 

First failed because I rushed and did not land level and my game stuttered into about 2 fps for some reason.

 

I did a common mistake by dropping a wing and landing left wing down by about 2 or 3 degrees was enough to put it off balance and it rolled fine till it eventually ground looped at near stop with rudder doing nothing. Modulating brakes will not help, nothing will. I expect engine power would drag you straight and level so you could either drop to 0% power and stop as above or full power and go round again.

 

For fun I also did a bounce landing like a new player might and that ended with an obvious ground loop - bounce can be made if you pull up too hard at the low speed and the plane just looses lift and falls onto the runway. I expect if you're really good you can recover from the bounce and make this way to land work.

 

I think this way is better than the other way I tested although both ways work.

 

At least we all learned every way to learn the La-5 now. No one should have any excuses.

Edited March 23, 2017 by deleted@30725

[fjacobsen]

By keeping some power on during the landing roll make the roll longer - true.

But it will also make the aircraft decelerate slower - and remember what causes ground loop !!

The reason for ground looping ist that Your center of gravity is behind the main wheels and that this mass will try to overtake the main wheels.

Te amount of inertia put into this overtake is dependent on how fast You decelerate - so with no power the slightest yaw caused by the mass trying to overtake, can lead to a groundloop much easier with this stronger inertia.

 

Additionally, as told in post further up this thread, adding power will add airflow over the controll surfaces - especially the rudder, which will make rudder inputs strobger than without the airflow caused by the propeller.

[Y29.Layin_Scunion]

At least we all learned every way to learn the La-5 now. No one should have any excuses.

Out of the dozens of books I've read by WW2 pilots; it's obvious to anyone not every bird is the same.

 

That said, I know of multiple WW2 pilots that kept the throttle cracked on landings.  In direct opposition to "correct" procedure of 0% throttle.  It's all in how the plane handles, lands, brakes etc.

 

And I'm talking about air force/army air corps pilots as well....not just naval pilots.

 

Pokryshkin talked of leaving his MiG-3's throttle cracked on landing because he didn't like having [Edited] rudder authority come touchdown.  Completely against the manual but that's just what he did.  

 

Sooo...for people to "facepalm" because they think it's "just wrong" is narrow-minded.  I don't care how many hours you have in a real aircraft.  I only care about what time you have in said plane that we're discussing, which is the Lavochkin-5.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Bearcat
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