News of our Beloved Spitfire?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I have an odd question. Do the natives call the Mk Vb the "Mark Vee Bee or the "Mark Five Bee?" On my phone at an event (no YouTube per the wife) and can't currently recall.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I've only heard it "Mark Five Bee"... but I'm from the colonies (Canada) so what do I know

[Wulf]

It's a Mk 5.  That's all it's ever been.  In the same way the Mk IX, is a Mk 9, not an 'eye-EX'.  

Edited May 29, 2017 by Wulf

[AndyJWest]

Should definitely be 'five bee': I'm sure the average RAF pilot knew Roman numbers. Though come to think of it they had dropped them by the time they came to the Mk 21. 

[Haza]

Should definitely be 'five bee': I'm sure the average RAF pilot knew Roman numbers. Though come to think of it they had dropped them by the time they came to the Mk 21. 

 

I'm sure an RAF Officer would have known about Roman numerals, but I'm not so sure about a lowly SNCO.  However, having said that, Ian McShane understood French and appeared to be very clever, so I'm guessing he might have known about Roman Numerals. 

[Royal_Flight]

Should definitely be 'five bee': I'm sure the average RAF pilot knew Roman numbers. Though come to think of it they had dropped them by the time they came to the Mk 21.

The convention was changed after the war (1948) for all British a/c across the board, from Roman to Arabic numerals. So anything in wartime will have been Roman numerals.

And the Spitfire's numbering went in all directions all over the place, so the mk IX predates the mk VIII, the mk XVI predates the mk XIV (I think). It's not strictly chronological anyway.

 

Regardless, I can't wait to get into the cockpit.

[Wulf]

The convention was changed after the war (1948) for all British a/c across the board, from Roman to Arabic numerals. So anything in wartime will have been Roman numerals.

And the Spitfire's numbering went in all directions all over the place, so the mk IX predates the mk VIII, the mk XVI predates the mk XIV (I think). It's not strictly chronological anyway.

 

Regardless, I can't wait to get into the cockpit.

 

 

I'm not sure that's quite correct.  The Mk VIII was intended to be the service replacement for the Mk V.  However, due to the urgent need for an immediate replacement in 1941, it was decided to simply re-engine existing Mk V air frames  as a stopgap measure.  These aircraft, the Mk IX Spitfires, proved so successful that the Mk VIII, a full-blown make-over, although in production at the time, became much less significant (and numerous).  The Mk XIV (with a two stage supercharged Griffon - built initially on Mk VIII air frames) entered production prior to the Mk XVI, as far as I know, (which was built with a Packard Merlin)  that went into production in 1944.

 

Although I believe the various Spitfire Mks were essentially chronological, they often appear not to be so simply because some of the Mks were built in relatively small numbers, due to their specialized nature or because new innovations quickly made their production short-lived.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Wulf

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm not sure that's quite correct.  The Mk VIII was intended to be the service replacement for the Mk V.  However, due to the urgent need for an immediate replacement in 1941, it was decided to simply re-engine existing Mk V air frames  as a stopgap measure.  These aircraft, the Mk IX Spitfires, proved so successful that the Mk VIII, a full-blown make-over, although in production at the time, became much less significant (and numerous).  The Mk XIV (with a two stage supercharged Griffon - built initially on Mk VIII air frames) entered production prior to the Mk XVI, as far as I know, (which was built with a Packard Merlin)  that went into production in 1944.

 

Although I believe the various Spitfire Mks were essentially chronological, they often appear not to be so simply because some of the Mks were built in relatively small numbers, due to their specialized nature or because new innovations quickly made their production short-lived.

 

Yep. Wulf has it right. The design work for each Spitfire had each model very much in chronological order but sometimes development or production took longer and that's why some entered operational service later than others.

[unreasonable]

I'm sure an RAF Officer would have known about Roman numerals, but I'm not so sure about a lowly SNCO.  However, having said that, Ian McShane understood French and appeared to be very clever, so I'm guessing he might have known about Roman Numerals. 

 

I am sure that NCOs would too, half the clocks in the country were marked with Roman numerals. So they may have had difficulty with anything over XII  .    (As would the young officers falling asleep in the Latin classes at their minor public schools).

[manitouguy]

Hi all – l too am eagerly awaiting our il2 spitfire and very much enjoying reading these posts

 

I have many books on this bird - and always enjoyed a diagram from this earlier edition on the ' family tree'

 

And another book on the spitfire which might be one of the most comprehensive and massive volumes I've come across - all sorts of technical drawings and full details of the development from start to finish – listing all serial numbers etc. etc.

 

At any rate thought some of you might find this interesting if you haven't seen before

Regards Ron

Edited May 30, 2017 by manitouguy

[Haza]

I am sure that NCOs would too, half the clocks in the country were marked with Roman numerals. So they may have had difficulty with anything over XII . (As would the young officers falling asleep in the Latin classes at their minor public schools).

Well I never fell asleep at Halton or Cranwell. However,I do that most afternoons now.

Hi all – l too am eagerly awaiting our il2 spitfire and very much enjoying reading these posts

 

I have many books on this bird - and always enjoyed a diagram from this earlier edition on the ' family tree'

 

And another book on the spitfire which might be one of the most comprehensive and massive volumes I've come across - all sorts of technical drawings and full details of the development from start to finish – listing all serial numbers etc. etc.

 

At any rate thought some of you might find this interesting if you haven't seen before

Regards Ron

Anything much about the lend-lease frames of interest?

Edited May 30, 2017 by Haza

[EAF19_Marsh]

 

The Mk XIV (with a two stage supercharged Griffon - built initially on Mk VIII air frames) entered production prior to the Mk XVI, as far as I know, (which was built with a Packard Merlin)  that went into production in 1944.

 

The XVIs were a bit of an odd one, being a XI with new mods, despite the VIII airframe being superior in many respects (not available in quantity, I presume).

 

The early XIIs also look a bit strange, begin essentially Vcs with a Griffon so have fixed tail wheels, asymmetric radiators but went like a rocket at low altitude.

[Trooper117]

The old girl just can't get here quick enough for me

[Cybermat47]

The old girl just can't get here quick enough for me

She'd be faster if she had a DB-601

[Trooper117]

DOH!...

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

She'd be faster if she had a DB-601

True. The only Prototype I wouldn't really mind at all. 

[manitouguy]

Haza - I took a look for lend lease info - not much in my stacks but here's a bit more for interest sake

 

Last thumb just cause I love the pretty mk vb lines even in tech drwgs

Edited May 31, 2017 by manitouguy

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Are we maybe getting a spit MkV tomorrow?

[Dutchvdm]

Are we maybe getting a spit MkV tomorrow?

 

I think that's a bit to early. In the last DD Jason said that the Spit is coming along nice, but not quiet ready yet. 

 

Grt M

[Haza]

Haza - I took a look for lend lease info - not much in my stacks but here's a bit more for interest sake

 

Last thumb just cause I love the pretty mk vb lines even in tech drwgs

Cheers for doing that.

[Bullets]

Are we maybe getting a spit MkV tomorrow?

 

Its been in development for hella ages compared to other aircraft   It can't come sooner 

[CF-105]

Its been in development for hella ages compared to other aircraft   It can't come sooner 

 

I've been wondering what could be causing that, being that it's 3d model seemed ready a while ago, maybe they're adding some particularly interesting mods to it...

[Cpt_Cool]

I've been wondering what could be causing that, being that it's 3d model seemed ready a while ago, maybe they're adding some particularly interesting mods to it...

 

Eh. I don't think it has been in development overlong - just feels that way.  Plus the spit is the first BOK aircraft built from scratch.

[Tag777]

Eh. I don't think it has been in development overlong - just feels that way.  Plus the spit is the first BOK aircraft built from scratch.

I hope our much esteemed Spit won't be a disappointment, as the P-40 was.

[Bullets]

Hmmm I would disagree, the first bit of news we got about its development was 20/10/2016 https://il2sturmovik.com/news/254/dev-blog-136/   and then 29/12/16  ,  The physical model was finished by 17/03/17 https://il2sturmovik.com/news/295/dev-blog-152/ and FM has been in development from 31/03/17. This means it has been at least 2 months of FM development, and 5 months of physical model development. totalling 7 Months. The development plan was almost 2 months ahead when they released the He111 H16 and A5 and I almost expected the Spit early may but obviously other development has taken place (obviously not a bad thing) in the "free'd" up time. This compared to other "from scratch" aircraft is pretty long   The spit was one of the main reasons I purchased Kuban Premium and it feels like it has been taking a backseat for the last 7 months    This is by no means criticism of the devs or their work I am just observing the development of the aircraft.    

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It has been suggested the Spit timing may be associated with the global change in rudder FM's.

[Jade_Monkey]

Hmmm I would disagree, the first bit of news we got about its development was 20/10/2016 https://il2sturmovik.com/news/254/dev-blog-136/ and then 29/12/16 , The physical model was finished by 17/03/17 https://il2sturmovik.com/news/295/dev-blog-152/ and FM has been in development from 31/03/17. This means it has been at least 2 months of FM development, and 5 months of physical model development. totalling 7 Months. The development plan was almost 2 months ahead when they released the He111 H16 and A5 and I almost expected the Spit early may but obviously other development has taken place (obviously not a bad thing) in the "free'd" up time. This compared to other "from scratch" aircraft is pretty long The spit was one of the main reasons I purchased Kuban Premium and it feels like it has been taking a backseat for the last 7 months This is by no means criticism of the devs or their work I am just observing the development of the aircraft.

Good observations! But remember that they dont owe us anything specific until BoK is officially released.

[Finkeren]

It has been suggested the Spit timing may be associated with the global change in rudder FM's.

I have made that suggestion myself, but Jason has since stated, that the rudder changes won't come until "later in the summer".

[Finkeren]

I don't think the Spit has been "taking a backseat". I simply think they have chosen to partly model all the "new" aircraft (those that we don't have other versions of in the sim already) in parallel to a larger degree than in BoS/BoM. Meaning that their modelers haven't been working on the Spit for 7 months, they have been working on four completely new aircraft simultaneously. That's why we can already see shots of both the A-20 and the Hs 129 flying in the sim, despite the fact, that their release is 5-6 months into the future.

[ITAF_Rani]

Any info about the skins this bird will wear?

I d like to see one bare metal ..

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Black Six will likely open a suggestion thread on skins around release if history is to be trusted.

 

Edit: I've seen them in silver dope but I'm not sure I've ever seen a bare metal Spit.

Edited May 31, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Jade_Monkey]

Black Six will likely open a suggestion thread on skins around release if history is to be trusted.

Isn't it a bit late? I thought they did that early on for the planes they dont have enough ideas for. I could be wrong though.

[HBPencil]

I don't think it has been in development overlong - just feels that way.

+1

 

One of the main reasons I'm looking forward to the Spit is that I feel it will inspire me to get into skinning for BoS (I've done, and still occasionally do, Spit skins for '46), there's plenty of subject matter for the Vb although the vast majority of it isn't for the VVS/PVO.

[JG5_Schuck]

Here's one i took at Duxford,

Just for you Spit lovers!

[unreasonable]

I love that early war "No ack-ack please, we're British" underwing colour scheme on the right hand aeroplane.

[HBPencil]

I've seen them in silver dope but I'm not sure I've ever seen a bare metal Spit.

I don't recall seeing any bare metal Vb Spits but some Aussie Vc and VIII Spits were bare metal. There were some other examples floating around that I've seen photos of; a 601sqn Mk.IX in Italy, a Mk.Ia in Canada and Israeli Mk.IXs for example. They were relatively rare but not unheard of.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I can't fine anything other than postwar Spits in bare metal, either in my references or on the interwebs. Do you have any pics? All of the wartime Spits I can find are silver doped and not actual bare metal. That Canadian one is only bare metal as it has just come out of an extensive rebuild after an accident.

[HBPencil]

I can't fine anything other than postwar Spits in bare metal, either in my references or on the interwebs. Do you have any pics? All of the wartime Spits I can find are silver doped and not actual bare metal. That Canadian one is only bare metal as it has just come out of an extensive rebuild after an accident.

I'm at work at the moment so am just checking this page in between jobs, but just quickly here's a some shots. I forgot to mention that there were some bare metal American Spits and I was wrong, I have seen a bare metal Vb! (see below) h/t to Duggy at A&A for the first two.

 

War Weary 14th PRS Vb used as a hack:

 

14th PRS PR.XI late war

RAAF Mk.VIII

 

RAAF Vc

 

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

Is it coming today????? Just wet my pants.

Edited June 1, 2017 by JG19_DendroAspis

[Finkeren]

The magic 8-Ball says "No".

 

Probably next week.